I mean, he is a starter. Especially with our draft record, I'll take it. If out of 7 picks annually we keep 4 players and 2 are consistent starters, its not a bad draft.
2021 4th round pick is Marco Wilson CB
- Thread starter BullheadCardFan
- Start date
I mean, he is a starter. Especially with our draft record, I'll take it. If out of 7 picks annually we keep 4 players and 2 are consistent starters, its not a bad draft.
Krangodnzr
Captain of Team Conner
See this is where you have been Kiper-ed.
2nd round picks that are decent players are good picks.
Quit listening to the draft fan boys and start looking at reality. Murphy is a good player.
Krangodnzr
Captain of Team Conner
@Solar7
A good case study on a good draft pick that may thought was a bust was Calvin Pace. He ended up being a good player. Not a star, but he played over a decade. Not his fault the Cardinals played him at the wrong position.
A good case study on a good draft pick that may thought was a bust was Calvin Pace. He ended up being a good player. Not a star, but he played over a decade. Not his fault the Cardinals played him at the wrong position.
Solar7
Go Suns
He's... not. But okay. I know this just devolves into the "he's technically a starter" conversation, so we don't need to have it again. The issue is, he can't cover the best guys in our division, much less the league.
We overinvested. it is what it is, but the comparison is the Seahawks getting their slot specialist late in the 4th round as compared to us being 1 pick away from taking him in the first.
Pace is always going to be judged on exactly what he should be - what we missed out on because of taking him. While Pace had a 10 year career or whatever, he did most of his best work on someone else's roster, while we passed on a hall of fame player.
I'd much rather have an AJ Brown or DK Metcalf over Byron Murphy, and that's just off of the top of my head without looking at the round.
Krangodnzr
Captain of Team Conner
The point isn't that they missed out on.
He was a good, steady, solid player that had a long career. It's not relevant to the point I'm making.
Focus.
Pace WAS being used correctly by the time he left and was good. That's really all you want from your average first round pick....a good player.
Solar7
Go Suns
He had one good year in an irrelevant season and started a total of 38 games of a potential 80 for us in 5 years. That's a bad pick.
Ouchie-Z-Clown
I'm better than Mulli!
I think it depends. We had the 6th pick. At that part of the draft you’re hoping to hit on a pro bowler. And Lo and behold - Suggs. When you trade down you’re hoping for a good player plus. We blew it with skillet hands.
Lets see:
You must be registered for see images attach
Landon Collins is the only star out of this group. Tee Higgins is better but not a star.
Together with Austin Corbett Byron Murphy is probably the next best player, so he is a better than average pick for that position.
Definitely not a failed pick at 33. I think you are overvaluing the draft which remains a lottery. And no, Steve Keim is not the only GM who missed better players which were picked later on. Most others missed them as well.
I knife to the heart in the form of data.
Solar7
Go Suns
Listen, I'd be pissed if we were the Packers and drafted Kevin freaking King with that pick too. Drafting a guy to intentionally only be a nickel back with that high of a pick is nonsensical to me. I'm not even so mad about a "miss," just the lack of positional value.
Also, yes, other GMs missed, but Keim is statistically the worst drafter in the league in the past 4 years (this year notwithstanding). Murphy is his 3rd best pick since 2016 and that's just awful.
I'm looking at all the guys around him in that draft and it's not like we missed some stud 2 picks later. There's a lot of meh there.
Only star is AJ Brown 20 picks later.
Solar7
Go Suns
DK Metcalf went in the same round and is a star, just off the top of my head. I'm not on a computer at the moment so I'll have to examine the rest later.
He went right at the back end. You can certainly argue DK over Isabella.
That’s a very one sided argument. Lol
Solar7
Go Suns
Yeah, I'm just saying I could swallow a failed player at a more impactful position than I can an average one that ONLY plays nickel decently. Especially given how many needs we had at the time.
DVontel
ASFN Icon
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2015
- Posts
- 13,052
- Reaction score
- 23,253
Kind of hilarious from you.
I didn't like the pick at the time. I think it's fair to argue that guys that project to be nickel corners can't be value that high.
But it's saved slightly by there being no obvious players we missed on in that same vicinity.
WisconsinCard
Herfin BIg Time
You would rather have a bust if he played a different position, then a dude that is playing plenty? I'm sorry but that doesn't make any sense. I rather have a great kicker then a bust QB.
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2003
- Posts
- 91,452
- Reaction score
- 68,689
yeah. That is cutting off your nose to spite your face kinda thinking.
Krangodnzr
Captain of Team Conner
That's missing the point on what I'm saying...again...the point I'm making is that getting a good player at a pick isn't a loss EVER.
The criticism of trading down is obfuscating my point. Getting a player that plays a decade in the NFL and for a good chunk of his career and an above replacement level isn't a loss.
Byron Murphy isnt a bad player. He isn't a star, but he has made game winning plays.
Krangodnzr
Captain of Team Conner
Nickels play a substantial part of the game and are pretty much just as valuable as outside corners, which are the most valuable positions defensively for the most part.
Holy crap...
“ positional Value” is a joke
the only position that matters is “ contributor on the roster”
you get two guys who are on the field for sixty percent of your snaps and that’s a win
get three and it’s a great draft
happen to get a pro bowler and it’s a fantastic draft
the only position that matters is “ contributor on the roster”
you get two guys who are on the field for sixty percent of your snaps and that’s a win
get three and it’s a great draft
happen to get a pro bowler and it’s a fantastic draft
There's two different arguments here.
Positional value is real, so there is a pre draft (or just after the draft) argument to be made that on paper #33 is too high for a guy that's a nickel. I think that argument has some merit. Nickels don't play as many downs and they are often covering the lesser WR's, not always, but more often. Of the 3 CB positions Nickel is the least important, they are all important, but it is the least.
This is evidenced by the fact most people could rank the top 10 outside cornerbacks. Barely anyone could name 5 nickel corners, never mind rank the best ones. Brian Poole is universally considered top 5 and doesn't even have a team yet.
But then also you are correct that any pick that works out as a decent player is a good pick. So many don't. And I don't see much of an argument now for not drafting Murphy considering there's nobody drafted in that vicinity you can really say was an obvious better option.
QuebecCard
ASFN Addict
Maybe nothing more than evidence of ignorance of how the position has become key to passing "D" in the modern game.
Ouchie-Z-Clown
I'm better than Mulli!
Perhaps not a loss, but it’s a failure to maximize. Again, at the high end of the first round you’re not seeking a contributor. You’re seeking a pro bowler.
