2023-24 Around the NBA Thread

[Mainstreet]

I never heard any backlash from his Suns teammates about his antics. Obviously, it didn't sit well with his Mavericks teammates but that might have just come from Luka's obvious dislike.

I used to like those pregame pep dances the Suns used to do with McGee leading it. However, I couldn't help but wonder if some of the language didn't sit well with Monty.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Our repulsive overpay for Durant is skewering reality.

... It is virtually impossible to give up more for a player than we gave up for Durant. It should not have happened and it won't happen again.

Also, the Sixers have engaged in far worse trades than Atyon, Cam Johnson, 4 firsts and a swap for Embiid, that isn't even a bottom 3 trade for them in the last 5-10 years and it's almost certainly a better deal than whatever they're going to get for Embiid when they are forced to move him in the next year or two.

You live in fantasy land if you believe Ayton and picks gets a deal done for the reigning MVP of the league.

Just as you do believing that Cam Johnson and picks would have gotten a KD deal done this off-season because there would have been no one going after him… despite the Celtics and Grizzlies having been rumored to have interest last year and with better assets than Cam Johnson and picks, while also proving this off-season they were willing to make big changes.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Our repulsive overpay for Durant is skewering reality.

Your inability to see the gravity Durant brought to this team is the only thing skewered here, Phrazbit. Always has been. You have tunnel vision, only looking at Durant’s age and games played while completely ignoring that his stature on this team, teaming up with Booker is what allowed us to get players like Beal/Gordon for Pennie’s on the dollar.

I understand you went completely off the rails when we made the trade, thinking we were hamstrung forever and it couldnt possibly work. But trading for KD never was just about the player on the court. It was also about who KD could draw to join him on the court to create a legit title contender.

There is no way Beal forces his way here to play with the “superstar” tandem of Booker and “I crap the bed every playoffs” Bridges. And neither does Gordon.

Getting KD made us one of, if not THE premiere destination in the league. The more you choose to ignore that fact, the more foolish you look… especially when you then believe that Ayton and picks would net us Embiid, on a KD-less Suns squad, no less.

 

[Yuma]

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[Phrazbit]

Your inability to see the gravity Durant brought to this team is the only thing skewered here, Phrazbit. Always has been. You have tunnel vision, only looking at Durant’s age and games played while completely ignoring that his stature on this team, teaming up with Booker is what allowed us to get players like Beal/Gordon for Pennie’s on the dollar.

I understand you went completely off the rails when we made the trade, thinking we were hamstrung forever and it couldnt possibly work. But trading for KD never was just about the player on the court. It was also about who KD could draw to join him on the court to create a legit title contender.

There is no way Beal forces his way here to play with the “superstar” tandem of Booker and “I crap the bed every playoffs” Bridges. And neither does Gordon.

Getting KD made us one of, if not THE premiere destination in the league. The more you choose to ignore that fact, the more foolish you look… especially when you then believe that Ayton and picks would net us Embiid, on a KD-less Suns squad, no less.

We already were a destination... hence KD forcing his way here in the first place.

When you see the pittance that these other guys, Lillard and Embiid, go for in comparison to what we gave for a player who is older than both and drenched in red flags... maybe you'll see the light.

And completely off the rails? Gimme a break. It was an overpay, I didn't go nuts, I didn't go blasting anyone who disagreed with me with a bunch of childish name calling.

Take a breather.

 

[Mainstreet]

We already were a destination... hence KD forcing his way here in the first place.

When you see the pittance that these other guys, Lillard and Embiid, go for in comparison to what we gave for a player who is older than both and drenched in red flags... maybe you'll see the light.

And completely off the rails? Gimme a break. It was an overpay, I didn't go nuts, I didn't go blasting anyone who disagreed with me with a bunch of childish name calling.

Take a breather.

I'd add, if the Wizards hadn't chosen to rebuild when they did and Beal forced his way to the Suns, we'd be talking about a completely different off season. There wouldn't be a big three in Phoenix.

 

[Hoop Head]

I'd add, if the Wizards hadn't chosen to rebuild when they did and Beal forced his way to the Suns, we'd be talking about a completely different off season. There wouldn't be a big three in Phoenix.

There's no way this is a legit contender or favorite minus Beal. I suppose that would put Chris Paul back on the roster but I'd imagine Shamet would have been dumped somewhere similar to Payne if the Beal trade didn't happen. Paul might work in Golden State if they use him as a Sixth Man, as some reports indicate, but he wasn't going to hold up all season into the playoffs. We'd be in a similar spot as last postseason, needing Book and KD to do essentially everything and KD would be a year older trying to do that.

 

[Mainstreet]

David Aldridge ranks the Cavaliers and Suns 2nd and 3rd respectively of teams that have improved the most this offseason behind the Spurs.

August 24th, 2023 at 10:02pm CST by Rory Maher

In a three-part series for The Athletic, David Aldridge ranks the teams that he believes improved the most and least this offseason. Aldridge’s most improved team is unsurprisingly the Spurs, who won the draft lottery and selected French phenom Victor Wembanyama. The Cavaliers and Suns rank Nos. 2 and 3, respectively.

Phoenix Suns Rumors | Hoops Rumors

Phoenix Suns trade, free agent, and draft rumors, updated constantly by the NBA experts at HoopsRumors.com.

www.hoopsrumors.com

 

[Chaplin]

David Aldridge ranks the Cavaliers and Suns 2nd and 3rd respectively of teams that have improved the most this offseason behind the Spurs.

Phoenix Suns Rumors | Hoops Rumors

Phoenix Suns trade, free agent, and draft rumors, updated constantly by the NBA experts at HoopsRumors.com.

www.hoopsrumors.com

What am I missing here? Why are the Cavs 2nd?

DATE	TRANSACTION
July 8, 2023	Acquired C Damian Jones from Utah.
July 7, 2023	Signed F Emoni Bates to a two-way contract.
July 6, 2023	Re-signed G Caris LeVert. Signed F Georges Niang and G Ty Jerome. Acquired G Max Strus from Miami in exchange for draft considerations.

 

[Hoop Head]

David Aldridge ranks the Cavaliers and Suns 2nd and 3rd respectively of teams that have improved the most this offseason behind the Spurs.

Phoenix Suns Rumors | Hoops Rumors

Phoenix Suns trade, free agent, and draft rumors, updated constantly by the NBA experts at HoopsRumors.com.

www.hoopsrumors.com

Appears that the article is free. Here's the Suns blurb, for those who don't want to track it down....

3. Phoenix Suns​

2022-23 record: 45-37; lost in second round

Added: G Bradley Beal (acquired from Washington); G Jordan Goodwin (acquired from Washington); G Eric Gordon (two years, $6.5M); F Yuta Watanabe (two years, $5M); F Keita Bates-Diop (two years, $5M); F/C Bol Bol (one year, $2.17M); C Chimezie Metu (one year, $2.3M); F Toumani Camara (second round, 52nd pick overall); G Saben Lee (two-way); 2024 second-round pick (acquired from San Antonio); 2024, 2026, 2028 second-round picks (acquired from Orlando); 2025, 2028, 2029 second-round picks (acquired from Memphis); hired coach Frank Vogel
Lost: G Chris Paul (traded to Washington); G Landry Shamet (traded to Washington); G Cameron Payne (traded to San Antonio); F Isaiah Todd (traded to Memphis); C Jock Landale (signed with Houston); 2026 first-round pick (traded to Orlando); 2024, 2026, 2028, 2030 first-round pick swaps (traded to Washington); 2024, 2030 first-round pick swaps (traded to Memphis); 2024, 2025, 2026, 2027, 2028, 2030 second-round picks (traded to Washington); fired coach Monty Williams
Retained: C Drew Eubanks (two years, $5M); G Damion Lee (two years, $5.3M); G Josh Okogie (two years, $5.7M); F Ish Wainright (Suns exercised $1.93M option for 2023-24)
Extended: None
Returning from injury: None

The skinny: Phoenix looked like a franchise that needed a shake-up, and GM James Jones delivered. Beal was the headline pickup and will slide into the complementary role offensively alongside Kevin Durant and Devin Booker that’s probably his best spot; that trio should be insanely productive. But the Suns’ best work was parlaying minimum salaries and less-than-midlevel slots into what should be a very solid bench. I especially like getting Watanabe from the Nets and Bates-Diop from the Spurs. I’m not sure firing Williams was the right answer, but two straight awful playoff flameouts gave Mat Ishbia a reason to make a change. No doubt, though: The Suns are hella small now aside from Deandre Ayton and Bol. And Beal, while willing to pass as a lead guard, was often sped up into turnovers and bad decisions when he had those responsibilities in Washington the last couple of seasons.

 

[Chaplin]

Appears that the article is free. Here's the Suns blurb, for those who don't want to track it down....

Article wasn't free for me.

 

[Hoop Head]

What am I missing here? Why are the Cavs 2nd?

DATE	TRANSACTION
July 8, 2023	Acquired C Damian Jones from Utah.
July 7, 2023	Signed F Emoni Bates to a two-way contract.
July 6, 2023	Re-signed G Caris LeVert. Signed F Georges Niang and G Ty Jerome. Acquired G Max Strus from Miami in exchange for draft considerations.

The writer hypes up their added shooting, which they needed and will receive from Strus and Niang. They're a young team that needed experience and they filled a hole on the wing. They'll be better than they were but I'm not sure if #2 is right. I imagine they'll be better next year though with a more complete and experienced starting 5. I would equate their off-season to the Suns after the finals run, signing Javale and getting Dario back while everyone else has a playoff run under their belt and more chemistry.

 

[Hoop Head]

Article wasn't free for me.

That's odd. It pulled up just fine for me, still have it up and I'm reading about the other teams.

These 10 teams had the best offseasons in the NBA

These teams did the best work in improving their squads and maxing out their available resources. And we won't overthink the No. 1 spot.

theathletic.com

 

[Dr. Jones]

3. Phoenix Suns​

2022-23 record: 45-37; lost in second round

Added: G Bradley Beal (acquired from Washington); G Jordan Goodwin (acquired from Washington); G Eric Gordon (two years, $6.5M); F Yuta Watanabe (two years, $5M); F Keita Bates-Diop (two years, $5M); F/C Bol Bol (one year, $2.17M); C Chimezie Metu (one year, $2.3M); F Toumani Camara (second round, 52nd pick overall); G Saben Lee (two-way); 2024 second-round pick (acquired from San Antonio); 2024, 2026, 2028 second-round picks (acquired from Orlando); 2025, 2028, 2029 second-round picks (acquired from Memphis); hired coach Frank Vogel

Lost: G Chris Paul (traded to Washington); G Landry Shamet (traded to Washington); G Cameron Payne (traded to San Antonio); F Isaiah Todd (traded to Memphis); C Jock Landale (signed with Houston); 2026 first-round pick (traded to Orlando); 2024, 2026, 2028, 2030 first-round pick swaps (traded to Washington); 2024, 2030 first-round pick swaps (traded to Memphis); 2024, 2025, 2026, 2027, 2028, 2030 second-round picks (traded to Washington); fired coach Monty Williams
Retained: C Drew Eubanks (two years, $5M); G Damion Lee (two years, $5.3M); G Josh Okogie (two years, $5.7M); F Ish Wainright (Suns exercised $1.93M option for 2023-24)
Extended: None
Returning from injury: None

The skinny: Phoenix looked like a franchise that needed a shake-up, and GM James Jones delivered. Beal was the headline pickup and will slide into the complementary role offensively alongside Kevin Durant and Devin Booker that’s probably his best spot; that trio should be insanely productive. But the Suns’ best work was parlaying minimum salaries and less-than-midlevel slots into what should be a very solid bench. I especially like getting Watanabe from the Nets and Bates-Diop from the Spurs. I’m not sure firing Williams was the right answer, but two straight awful playoff flameouts gave Mat Ishbia a reason to make a change. No doubt, though: The Suns are hella small now aside from Deandre Ayton and Bol. And Beal, while willing to pass as a lead guard, was often sped up into turnovers and bad decisions when he had those responsibilities in Washington the last couple of seasons.

2. Cleveland Cavaliers​

2022-23 record: 51-31; lost in first round

Added: F Max Strus (acquired from Miami via four-year, $63M sign-and-trade); F Georges Niang (three years, $26M); G Ty Jerome (two years, $4.6M); C Damian Jones (acquired from Utah); F Emoni Bates (second round, 49th pick overall)
Lost: F Cedi Osman (traded to San Antonio); F Lamar Stevens (traded to San Antonio); 2026 second-round pick (traded to Miami); 2030 second-round pick (traded to San Antonio)
Retained: F Isaiah Mobley (two-way)
Extended: F Caris LeVert (two years, $32M)
Returning from injury: None

The skinny: Quality work by GM Koby Altman and crew, zeroing in on exactly what plagued their team in its first-round loss to New York — horrendous shooting (32.7 percent) from deep — and adding two quality marksmen in Strus and Niang at very decent market values. Strus in particular should provide player movement regardless of how well he’s shooting, a necessity in a half-court offense that bogged down into awful possessions against New York, leaving Donovan Mitchell or Darius Garland to try and create against a walled-up defense. Yes, Cleveland’s frontcourt got bludgeoned on the glass by the Knicks. But good on the Cavs as well for not having a recency bias reaction to Jarrett Allen’s poor series. Neither he nor Evan Mobley played well against the Knicks, but both deserve another postseason opportunity to show what they learned from the experience.

 

[Absolute Zero]

Don't think these two things go together...

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[95pro]

Don't think these two things go together...

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its espn, not even worth the click for me

 

[Hoop Head]

They had Suns #2 in the West and said we're the biggest challenge to the Nuggets, which is fair.

Here is their top 3 for the West, with % of first place votes shown after.

1. Denver Nuggets: 106 points (76% of first-place votes)

2. Phoenix Suns: 60 points (12%)

3. Golden State Warriors: 27 points (8%)

 

[Hoop Head]

They have the Suns listed at #4 to win the championship but somehow behind Boston despite getting more 1st place votes. Not sure how they figured that.

1. Denver Nuggets: 80 points (48% of first-place votes)

2. Milwaukee Bucks: 49 points (28%)

3. Boston Celtics: 32 points (4%)

4. Phoenix Suns: 30 points (8%)

 

[Hoop Head]

I'd say the Nuggets have a good shot of retaining. I wouldn't want to handicap it. Milwaukee matches up with them best but they need to get there. I'm curious how Boston will look as well. If the Heat do get Lillard, I think they become the favorite in the East and perhaps overall as well. He'd be a game changer for them. They lost some pieces but if they can part with picks and Herro for him, they'll be fine.

 

[Phrazbit]

They have the Suns listed at #4 to win the championship but somehow behind Boston despite getting more 1st place votes. Not sure how they figured that.

The East is easier to navigate than the West.

 

[Raindog]

its espn, not even worth the click for me

ESPN = Encyclopedia of Stupid Prognosticating Nonsense

 

[Mainstreet]

I'd say the Nuggets have a good shot of retaining. I wouldn't want to handicap it. Milwaukee matches up with them best but they need to get there. I'm curious how Boston will look as well. If the Heat do get Lillard, I think they become the favorite in the East and perhaps overall as well. He'd be a game changer for them. They lost some pieces but if they can part with picks and Herro for him, they'll be fine.

The Suns season could well pivot on their play at center, less injuries. I think they have the other pieces.

IMO, they have just a good a chance or better to win it all as any other contender.

 

[Mainstreet]

PJ Washington returns to the Hornets on a 3 year, $48 million dollar deal.

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[Superbone]

David Aldridge ranks the Cavaliers and Suns 2nd and 3rd respectively of teams that have improved the most this offseason behind the Spurs.

He also says Drew Eubanks was already on the team and was retained. He doesn’t appear to follow the Suns very closely.

 

[Phrazbit]

I don't know where to post this, delirious through lack of sleep and have started going deep in my head on recent basketball.

Kawhi going to the Clips... that is quietly an absolute disaster for that franchise. He goes there, he has seemingly been injured for every meaningful game, and in really bizarre situations, somehow the Clippers never seem to know if Leonard might get healthy soon or how bad he is hurt. I'd say they are being cagey but Kawhi basically ran this bit on the Spurs too, used it to force his way out.

Then you factor in that Kawhi strong arms the Clips into getting George, who is also hurt constantly and cost them a fortune to acquire.

If the Clips never sigh Leonard that means they also don't get George. They get back all those picks that OKC has on their docket, they also get back Shai, they also have a huge amount of cap space/flexibility while being in a premiere market.

They're probably in a similar spot OKC is now... only instead of being in Oklahoma City, they're in LA. The only reason OKC isn't terrifying to me is because I don't think anyone wants to live in OKC... I am not even judging basketball players here; I have zero interest in living in the plains states, if I was making millions no matter where I was... OKC might be my bottom destination in the NBA.

On the other hand, you take all that youth, picks and cap space... and now it is in LA.

Thank god the Clips got greedy and tried to get rich quick.