Krangodnzr
Captain of Team Conner
The most ideal scenario is:
Humphries-Hayes-Gaines-Hernandez-Johnson
The most likely:
Humphris-Johnson-Froholdt/Howerton-Hernandez-Beachum
2023 4th round pick #122 is Jon Gaines II G
- Thread starter BullheadCardFan
- Start date
Humphries-Hayes-Gaines-Hernandez-Johnson
The most likely:
Humphris-Johnson-Froholdt/Howerton-Hernandez-Beachum
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I think Paris plays RT before he plays LG. As long as he gets on the field though, I will be happy. (as long DJ isn't the one sacrificed)
gmabel830
It's football season!!
That would essentially be playing 3 rookies on the OL. Better hope they grow up fast before Kyler is back behind center!
Been watching more Gaines as unsurprisingly I didn't watch any of him before the draft.
I'd be surprised if he starts at center this year as there is much he needs to fix in his game.
He's a huge dude. I think he must have lost some weight for the combine to improve his testing because he looks bigger than 303lbs on film. Built in a lab for guard and his athleticism for his size is great. All the raw materials are there.
However, there is much to improve in his game. In the run game he's great in space and UCLA used him in a zone scheme that made the most of his athleticism, but once he gets to his point of attack he can be weak. He should be killing guys with his size and speed but doesn't. This was a common complaint with Cody Ford. A big guy that plays smaller than he is. When he's engaged he acts more like a wall rather than taking the guy out and gives guys a chance to get off his blocks.
His feet are good in pass pro but his hands need a lot of work. He let's guys get to his chest too easily, almost feel like he lets them then bear hugs them. Needs to get much better with his punch.
It's almost as if he plays too nice. In both pass pro and run blocking he's not aggressive enough. A very passive player with all the tools to be very good.
I didn't see any issues with him picking up stunts and his intelligence on the field was good. Always looking for work.
I can see why they chose him in the 4th. If all his issues were fixed he'd be a top 50 pick. But it's going to take some work.
I'd be surprised if he starts at center this year as there is much he needs to fix in his game.
He's a huge dude. I think he must have lost some weight for the combine to improve his testing because he looks bigger than 303lbs on film. Built in a lab for guard and his athleticism for his size is great. All the raw materials are there.
However, there is much to improve in his game. In the run game he's great in space and UCLA used him in a zone scheme that made the most of his athleticism, but once he gets to his point of attack he can be weak. He should be killing guys with his size and speed but doesn't. This was a common complaint with Cody Ford. A big guy that plays smaller than he is. When he's engaged he acts more like a wall rather than taking the guy out and gives guys a chance to get off his blocks.
His feet are good in pass pro but his hands need a lot of work. He let's guys get to his chest too easily, almost feel like he lets them then bear hugs them. Needs to get much better with his punch.
It's almost as if he plays too nice. In both pass pro and run blocking he's not aggressive enough. A very passive player with all the tools to be very good.
I didn't see any issues with him picking up stunts and his intelligence on the field was good. Always looking for work.
I can see why they chose him in the 4th. If all his issues were fixed he'd be a top 50 pick. But it's going to take some work.
Garthshort
ASFN Addict
Time will tell.
Krangodnzr
Captain of Team Conner
I saw some of the same things. What I did notice is he seemed to play better against power than speed to power. When a big guy came at him he absorbed the rush and nullified, but when a faster guy came at him fast, he'd give up the inside of his chest and get jolted.
In space, Gaines would quickly get out but would play patty cake with the guy he was blocking.
Few college lineman come into the NFL with great technique. Even Paris Johnson has some things he needs to clean up before he's really ready to start. What you look for is traits.
Gaines could fix a bunch of his issues by pretending every guy he has to block just slapped his mamma. Just plays too "nice". I feel like after every play he says "Sorry about that".
BirdGangThing
Cultist
But you've already googled and name dropped every Center that started out as a Guard, while acting like posters couldn't understand that some players do change positions. Now you're saying Gaines is a Guard, got it
But you've already googled and name dropped every Center that started out as a Guard, while acting like posters couldn't understand that some players do change positions. Now you're saying Gaines is a Guard, got it
Every time I click the "You are ignoring content by this member" button I'm reminded why. Thanks for the refresher.
BirdGangThing
Cultist
But Gaines was a Guard the whole time tho, correct?
Krangodnzr
Captain of Team Conner
So was Rodney Hudson. Mitch Morse was a tackle. I could pull out multiple other examples, but you're obviously incapable of understanding that players switch positions on the OL all of the time.
BirdGangThing
Cultist
Not at all - only thing I ever said was that Gaines wasn't a Center. He still isn't. Probably never will be in the NFL. You can post whatever examples but it doesn't have anything to do with the specific player we're discussing. And besides, converting Guards to Centers post college isn't some sort of common blueprint, it's a rarity. You two have been pimping Gaines as a possible Center all week and are now backtracking on said pimpage simultaneously. My understanding is not lacking, Hudsons do exist. Gaines is simply not a Hudson.
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Ouchie-Z-Clown
I'm better than Mulli!
Your confusing two completely unrelated items. My high school football coach made the same mistake. He started our season populating our offensive line with smart kids (he was an algebra teacher). They weren’t very big but he thought their intelligence could overcome their lack of stature. After two games he swapped them out for the big dummies and our run game took off.
Book smart doesn’t automatically translate to other types of intelligence. Think how many book smart but street dumb people exist. Heck, look at cheese.
Krangodnzr
Captain of Team Conner
Well the coaching staff specifically mentioned Gaines during their presser today, so it looks like they want to try him there.
Krangodnzr
Captain of Team Conner
But this isn't the same situation.
This is a big, agile guy who is smart. Sounds like a center to me.
I get it. If we were talking about a 5'10, 240 lb rocket scientist being tried at center, you would have a salient point, but that's not the case here.
Gaines scored very well on drills that are highly indicative of success, so he has a good chance of making it in the NFL. Couple that with his obvious drive and I think he can develop.
TheCardFan
Things have changed.
Might be a dumb question but I will ask it anyway. 
I believe Gaines performed in the top 10 or so all time at the combine- who else is in the top 10/how did they do in the NFL?
I believe Gaines performed in the top 10 or so all time at the combine- who else is in the top 10/how did they do in the NFL?
Krangodnzr
Captain of Team Conner
Might be a dumb question but I will ask it anyway.
I believe Gaines performed in the top 10 or so all time at the combine- who else is in the top 10/how did they do in the NFL?
xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media
Might be a dumb question but I will ask it anyway.
I believe Gaines performed in the top 10 or so all time at the combine- who else is in the top 10/how did they do in the NFL?
Other guys in the top 10 are,
Eric Steinbach
David Baas
Evan Mathis
Brandon Brooks
Ali Marpet
Trey Smith
Steve Hutchinson
Cole Strange
Chopper0080
2021 - Prove It
Oh look...proof that someone can have an opinion, gather more info, and then shift that opinion a tad. Nice process Brit.
Krangodnzr
Captain of Team Conner
John Michael Schmitz didn't hit the "cheat code" threshold btw.
Stout
Hold onto the ball, Murray!
lol If this cheat code were so legit, why'd he go in the 4th round? Because it's not anywhere close to a guarantee of anything.
In one way, I hate the combine, because it skews a loooot of thinking about players because "ooh, he looked great in shorts" and suddenly mediocre players are labeled sure-fire stares, and vice-versa. The physical measurement part of the combine has value really in some rule out scenarios, but even then I feel it goes overboard. I think the real value in the combine is in the interview processes and the interactions with players and other scouts and front offices.
Krangodnzr
Captain of Team Conner
Look at the data for yourself. If you don't think that linemen meeting that threshold starting 85% of their games is significant, I don't know what to tell you.
Football is a complicated game and it makes evaluating players even more complicated.
From the Cardinals own comments, Jon Gaines was incredibly impressive during the interview process. He wasn't just a combine wonder, though he did post a top 10% workout.
football karma
Michael snuggles the cap space
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for the same reason On Base % wasnt selected for in MLB prior to Billy Beane?
Stout
Hold onto the ball, Murray!
I believe there can be corollary data but that bias can skew it. If not, why aren't teams using this as one of the top measures? It would seem the smart thing to do. Unless the other comment about Billy Beane plays out. I agree with how the Cards view Gaines, and I hope they're right. As I've said, none of this is a commentary on him as a player.
