2024-2025 Around the NBA Thread

[Covert Rain]

How are those things different? We didn't need to make a deal.

We didn't win a title and anyone who thought we would post trade was fooling themselves. I remember discussing a very similar topic after Denver eliminated the Suns, those pro KD trade were saying it was about the coming seasons and filling holes that off-season. It proved extremely difficult to fill those holes given the new CBA, which was made public knowledge days before the KD trade. So this idea "The Suns didn't have to trade for KD but they had to make a trade for a KD like player" doesn't hold up to me. It's shifting the goalposts.

We absolutely needed to make a move. There is no shifting the goalpost. Durant was the only move that appeared to be available. Needing to make a move to add a star was the goal. I think someone people have selective memories.

BEFORE we knew Durant wanted to come here this forum was full of fans clamoring for the Suns to bring in a star to help Booker. Every single offseason we had people dumping trade machine scenarios to get it done. Nationally many analysts were also saying the same thing (Booker needs star help). Many fans here felt like Booker was a not a #1 star and we needed a number one. What doesn’t hold up is pretending that was not happening because people didn’t like the Durant trade.

 

[Chaplin]

We absolutely needed to make a move. There is no shifting the goalpost. Durant was the only move that appeared to be available. Needing to make a move to add a star was the goal.

Yep. And don't forget that Book was pushing for it as well, given their relationship. Hell the main reason why Durant wanted to come here is because of his time on the Olympic team with Book.

Bridges was BY FAR are best trade asset, a good player on a good contract. Any deal for a player that would make any kind of difference, superstar or no, would have included him. That's just the plain and simple truth.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Hindsight is 20/20. If the trade had worked nobody would be saying the cost was too much. Let me guess people that support the Ayton pick are fading away too?!?

And that's not true. I'm still hoping for a title from this group but not a chance in hell that championship would make me think it was a smart trade. We overpaid by any measure I can think of. About the only thing that would change my position would be if it came out that there were actually deals on the table that came close to what we offered. AFAIC, we bought a nice Toyota Camry but we paid BMW X6 M prices.

 

[Mainstreet]

Hindsight is 20/20. If the trade had worked nobody would be saying the cost was too much. Let me guess people that support the Ayton pick are fading away too?!?

I'm only saying Kevin Durant didn't have to be the Suns "#1 or 1B" at the Nets asking price. IMO, we just disagree on how far the Suns should have gone to trade for him. Trading Bridges was a step too far for me.

In regard to drafting Ayton, I supported that and I was wrong.

Also in the 2018 draft I wanted McDonough to draft or trade for Shai, so Bridges was flying under my radar.

We all have differences of opinions and that is okay. The forum is for discussion.

 

[Mainstreet]

Guard Lester Quinones, a free agent formerly with the Warriors, signs with the 76ers.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

 

[Mainstreet]

Quinten Post reportedly signs a two-way deal with the Warriors.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

 

[Mainstreet]

Reportedly, Derrick Rose gave up his entire remaining salary in the buyout with the Grizzlies.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

 

[Chaplin]

And that's not true. I'm still hoping for a title from this group but not a chance in hell that championship would make me think it was a smart trade. We overpaid by any measure I can think of. About the only thing that would change my position would be if it came out that there were actually deals on the table that came close to what we offered. AFAIC, we bought a nice Toyota Camry but we paid BMW X6 M prices.

Wow Steve, I'm guessing that a championship is important to you, but just not important enough.

I know some of us would do anything to get a championship. That's what that move was.

 

[Hoop Head]

Yep. And don't forget that Book was pushing for it as well, given their relationship. Hell the main reason why Durant wanted to come here is because of his time on the Olympic team with Book.

Bridges was BY FAR are best trade asset, a good player on a good contract. Any deal for a player that would make any kind of difference, superstar or no, would have included him. That's just the plain and simple truth.

Source? I'd like to see because everything public since the deal from Booker has been how much it hurt to see the Twins be dealt and how he wants to play with them again. I've never seen anything that suggests he was either pushing the team to make a big trade or that any price is worth paying, which is essentially what the discussion has become.

You can have all the personal reasons why you felt the Suns needed to make the KD trade, @Covert Rain but that doesn't mean they were up against a wall and HAD to do it. As far as the Ayton #1 pick thing, no has denied or tried to hide that they supported Ayton as the #1 pick. I was one of those people. I even started the thread to celebrate the #1 lottery pick and specifically mentioned Ayton as the "no brainer" pick the day we won the draft lottery. I've never backed off and tried to say I didn't or avoid admitting it ended up being the wrong pick. It's ok to admit when we're wrong. We're all wrong occasionally. I don't get the point in mentioning that. No one is still defending that Ayton was the right choice. Had we won the title in 2021 though, maybe our views change entirely.

Maybe we need 1Sun back to tell us how we're all wrong all the time to unite us again. Only joking about 1Sun, Good riddance.

 

[Mainstreet]

Wow Steve, I'm guessing that a championship is important to you, but just not important enough.

I know some of us would do anything to get a championship. That's what that move was.

 

[Mainstreet]

I can't believe someone would question Steve's desire for the Suns to win a championship.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Wow Steve, I'm guessing that a championship is important to you, but just not important enough.

I know some of us would do anything to get a championship. That's what that move was.

Way off. In fact, it feels like you're trying to subtly question my fanhood.

I think I've made this point several times but apparently it still doesn't register for some here. I believe we overpaid and by quite a bit. I don't think that because we've come up short since then, it was a statement about the situation itself. It wasn't a prediction, it was solely my opinion based on 60 plus years of being a diehard basketball fan and from paying attention to the value that passes hands when trades go down.

Nothing about that changes just because we win a championship. I'll be thrilled we won the title but it doesn't change the past, it doesn't alter my belief on fair value for an aging superstar. And I made that post to counter someone else's claim that we'd all think it was a fair trade if won a title.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Way off. In fact, it feels like you're trying to subtly question my fanhood.

I think I've made this point several times but apparently it still doesn't register for some here. I believe we overpaid and by quite a bit. I don't think that because we've come up short since then, it was a statement about the situation itself. It wasn't a prediction, it was solely my opinion based on 60 plus years of being a diehard basketball fan and from paying attention to the value that passes hands when trades go down.

Nothing about that changes just because we win a championship. I'll be thrilled we won the title but it doesn't change the past, it doesn't alter my belief on fair value for an aging superstar. And I made that post to counter someone else's claim that we'd all think it was a fair trade if won a title.

This I just don’t understand. If the trade was made and paid with the specific goal of winning a title… the first title ever for this franchise, it will be worth it in spades.

I highly doubt that happens but I just can’t understand those saying it was a bad trade if we’re all celebrating a title for the first time ever. At that point it’s beyond perplexing to me that the ends don’t justify the means, especially because the very crux of that argument would be based on unknowns (that no one else would have paid that price or that the Suns might have won a title somehow with the trade) versus the known quantity/outcome… an NBA title.

 

[AzStevenCal]

This I just don’t understand. If the trade was made and paid with the specific goal of winning a title… the first title ever for this franchise, it will be worth it in spades.

I highly doubt that happens but I just can’t understand those saying it was a bad trade if we’re all celebrating a title for the first time ever. At that point it’s beyond perplexing to me that the ends don’t justify the means, especially because the very crux of that argument would be based on unknowns (that no one else would have paid that price or that the Suns might have won a title somehow with the trade) versus the known quantity/outcome… an NBA title.

Simple answer - yes, if we win a title because of that trade I'll be happy we made that trade. And I've said that many times. But I'm pushing back against the contention that we'll all feel we made a fair trade if win a title. That just isn't so, for me at least. Loving my 50,000 dollar car won't change the fact that I regret paying a hundred grand for it. I'm okay with the idea that the end justifies the means, it just doesn't alter the past.

 

[Mainstreet]

Simple answer - yes, if we win a title because of that trade I'll be happy we made that trade. And I've said that many times. But I'm pushing back against the contention that we'll all feel we made a fair trade if win a title. That just isn't so, for me at least. Loving my 50,000 dollar car won't change the fact I paid a hundred grand for it. I'm okay with the idea that the end justifies the means, it just doesn't alter the past.

Every Suns fan should be happy if the Suns win a championship.

I wanted the Suns to trade for Durant, but the asking price was too steep. I think there were other avenues to get there because the Suns had expiring contracts and all their trade assets prior to the trade. Besides, the Nets may have lowered their price, although it might not have been until the summer.

I'm not sure the new NBA isn't about having two stars and a premium supporting cast.

Again, I viewed the Suns had two stars already in Booker and Bridges.

As a footnote, the Pacers traded for Siakam in January 2024. Markkanen possibly could have been obtainable in trade as well.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Way off. In fact, it feels like you're trying to subtly question my fanhood.

I think I've made this point several times but apparently it still doesn't register for some here. I believe we overpaid and by quite a bit. I don't think that because we've come up short since then, it was a statement about the situation itself. It wasn't a prediction, it was solely my opinion based on 60 plus years of being a diehard basketball fan and from paying attention to the value that passes hands when trades go down.

Nothing about that changes just because we win a championship. I'll be thrilled we won the title but it doesn't change the past, it doesn't alter my belief on fair value for an aging superstar. And I made that post to counter someone else's claim that we'd all think it was a fair trade if won a title.

Interesting. I would think that a first and only championship would have justified any move made by the organization. Guess I’m wrong. For me, results are the only measurement that matters.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Simple answer - yes, if we win a title because of that trade I'll be happy we made that trade. And I've said that many times. But I'm pushing back against the contention that we'll all feel we made a fair trade if win a title. That just isn't so, for me at least. Loving my 50,000 dollar car won't change the fact that I regret paying a hundred grand for it. I'm okay with the idea that the end justifies the means, it just doesn't alter the past.

Eh I don’t think the car analogy holds water because you’re 50,000 dollar car isn’t providing you with the happiness and satisfaction of the 100,000 dollar car. The championship would. It is literally the highest payout possible.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Every Suns fan should be happy if the Suns win a championship.

I wanted the Suns to trade for Durant, but the asking price was too steep. I think there were other avenues to get there because the Suns had expiring contracts and all their trade assets prior to the trade. Besides, the Nets may have lowered their price, although it might not have been until the summer.

I'm not sure the new NBA isn't about having two stars and a premium supporting cast.

Again, I viewed the Suns had two stars already in Booker and Bridges.

As a footnote, the Pacers traded for Siakam in January 2024. Markkanen possibly could have been obtainable in trade as well.

Booker and Siakam or Booker abd markenaan aren’t contenders either.

 

[Chaplin]

Source? I'd like to see because everything public since the deal from Booker has been how much it hurt to see the Twins be dealt and how he wants to play with them again. I've never seen anything that suggests he was either pushing the team to make a big trade or that any price is worth paying, which is essentially what the discussion has become.

You can have all the personal reasons why you felt the Suns needed to make the KD trade, @Covert Rain but that doesn't mean they were up against a wall and HAD to do it. As far as the Ayton #1 pick thing, no has denied or tried to hide that they supported Ayton as the #1 pick. I was one of those people. I even started the thread to celebrate the #1 lottery pick and specifically mentioned Ayton as the "no brainer" pick the day we won the draft lottery. I've never backed off and tried to say I didn't or avoid admitting it ended up being the wrong pick. It's ok to admit when we're wrong. We're all wrong occasionally. I don't get the point in mentioning that. No one is still defending that Ayton was the right choice. Had we won the title in 2021 though, maybe our views change entirely.

Maybe we need 1Sun back to tell us how we're all wrong all the time to unite us again. Only joking about 1Sun, Good riddance.

It wasn't that Book was pushing for a big trade, it's that he was pushing to get Kevin Durant.

 

[Chaplin]

Way off. In fact, it feels like you're trying to subtly question my fanhood.

I think I've made this point several times but apparently it still doesn't register for some here. I believe we overpaid and by quite a bit. I don't think that because we've come up short since then, it was a statement about the situation itself. It wasn't a prediction, it was solely my opinion based on 60 plus years of being a diehard basketball fan and from paying attention to the value that passes hands when trades go down.

Nothing about that changes just because we win a championship. I'll be thrilled we won the title but it doesn't change the past, it doesn't alter my belief on fair value for an aging superstar. And I made that post to counter someone else's claim that we'd all think it was a fair trade if won a title.

Come on Steve, don't play the victim card here. Of course I'm not questioning your "fanhood".

Regardless of whether you liked the trade or not, if it resulted in a championship -- and lets face it, if we win one in the next year or two, the reasons will start and end with that trade -- how would you weigh what we gave up vs a ring? Of course you'd be happy we won the title, but would you still say that the ring wasn't worth Bridges/Cam and a bunch of 1st rounders? That's the comparison here -- a ring vs. the haul.

 

[Mainstreet]

I would have been all over a trade for Lauri Markkanen if he had been obtainable, as rumored, especially because he is younger than Siakam.

 

[Mainstreet]

In my mind, can the Suns make up for lost talent, with minimal assets, after the Durant trade.

If there is anyone who can and will do it, I think it is Mat Ishbia.

He has created a first class organization in Phoenix where players want to play here.

 

[95pro]

Interesting. I would think that a first and only championship would have justified any move made by the organization. Guess I’m wrong. For me, results are the only measurement that matters.

So what are results since finals run just prior to KD?

What are results after acquiring KD?

 

[Mainstreet]

So what are results since finals run just prior to KD?

What are results after acquiring KD?

It felt like James Jones was reluctant to make a trade to improve the team in the 2022-23 season, especially with Crowder out, because he was waiting on the Durant trade to happen.

IMO, he had been chasing it all season.

The Suns won 64 games in the 2021-22 season and 45 games the next season.

 

[Hoop Head]

It wasn't that Book was pushing for a big trade, it's that he was pushing to get Kevin Durant.

Do you have any source to back that up? I'm not sure he said anything other than "adding KD to this team would be cool" or something along those lines after KD said he wanted to play in Phoenix. There's a difference between saying he'd welcome him and wanting the Suns to trade for him, which are you claiming took place, the former or latter?