2024 Draft Countdown/NFL Prospects thread

[football karma]

I said for years he made Kirk look like crap and nobody wanted to resign him and as soon as he gets to the Jags he looks like a legit NFL wide receiver.

Kirk's 2020 and 2021 were very productive years as a WR. The only hang up with Kirk was that coming into 2021 he always seemed to miss 3-4 games a year. Of course, beginning in 2021 he played in like 48 games straight with playoffs...

 

[kerouac9]

Ok, what WR in 5 years has Kyler done well with other than Hopkins who he could just throw it to and know he would adjust and make a great catch?

I said for years he made Kirk look like crap and nobody wanted to resign him and as soon as he gets to the Jags he looks like a legit NFL wide receiver.

My point being, Kyler so far has not really allowed any WR outside of a top 5 guy and likely Hall of Fame WR, to show anything.

I'm not sure why one factor--trust in the target's body control with the ball in the air--should be the only one that matters?

Through six games last year with Kyler/No DHop Hollywood was on pace for 181 targets/121 receptions/1374 yards/8 TDs.

 

[SoonerLou]

Ok, what WR in 5 years has Kyler done well with other than Hopkins who he could just throw it to and know he would adjust and make a great catch?

I said for years he made Kirk look like crap and nobody wanted to resign him and as soon as he gets to the Jags he looks like a legit NFL wide receiver.

My point being, Kyler so far has not really allowed any WR outside of a top 5 guy and likely Hall of Fame WR, to show anything.

Kirk's PFF Grade was higher in AZ.

Man fans are so fickle. 10 weeks ago after the first Niners game he was a legit WR1 prospect. Kyler plays like ass and now he's not ever WR2.

This is going to be like Trey McBride last year all over again. Wilson is going to be a very good starting WR.

Here's the very first play of Sundays game and Kyler throwing high and wide to a wide open Wilson on a dig that would have been a 20+ yard gain.

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Lack of practice reps/timing.

 

[SoonerLou]

I'm not sure why one factor--trust in the target's body control with the ball in the air--should be the only one that matters?

Through six games last year with Kyler/No DHop Hollywood was on pace for 181 targets/121 receptions/1374 yards/8 TDs.

I believe Brit was one of the people who pointed that out (last year as well) heh

 

[ajcardfan]

Ok, what WR in 5 years has Kyler done well with other than Hopkins who he could just throw it to and know he would adjust and make a great catch?

I said for years he made Kirk look like crap and nobody wanted to resign him and as soon as he gets to the Jags he looks like a legit NFL wide receiver.

My point being, Kyler so far has not really allowed any WR outside of a top 5 guy and likely Hall of Fame WR, to show anything.

Lol. Christian Kirk got 4 years, 72 million, with a 20 million dollar signing bonus. I think Kyler did him ok.

 

[SoonerLou]

Not the thread for it but apathy is setting in.

Even with as disappointing as the 2020 and 2021 seasons ended I wasnt apathetic. 2022 it only set in once Kyler tore his knee.

He had close to a 100 passer rating once Hopkins came back. Even if things werent "good" there were some signs being shown.

I think we're going for Titans 2.0. If not 2024 then by 2025. So lets see how Monti gets guys to fit that mold I guess.

 

[ajcardfan]

Kirk's PFF Grade was higher in AZ.

Wow! So we obviously must immediately leap to the conclusion that Trevor Lawrence sucks and can only throw to HOF receivers!

 

[SoonerLou]

Devontez Walker is getting first round hype now. Guess Drake Maye had someone to throw to afterall.

And no dont suggest taking both in round one!

 

[TheCardFan]

Devontez Walker is getting first round hype now.

I like him but first round? Wow.

 

[DVontel]

Kirk's 2020 and 2021 were very productive years as a WR. The only hang up with Kirk was that coming into 2021 he always seemed to miss 3-4 games a year. Of course, beginning in 2021 he played in like 48 games straight with playoffs...

Funny thing is, Kirk was on his way to have a better 2021(last year with us) than he did in Duval his first year. Injuries just cut that short. The problem with Kirk is that Kliff played him almost exclusively outside until his last year with us. He was always a slot WR despite Kliff galaxy-braining otherwise.

Brit making it seem Kirk had a AJ Brown-like jump from Tennessee to Philadelphia isn’t surprising.

 

[kerouac9]

Funny thing is, Kirk was on his way to have a better 2021(last year with us) than he did in Duval his first year. Injuries just cut that short. The problem with Kirk is that Kliff played him almost exclusively outside until his last year with us. He was always a slot WR despite Kliff galaxy-braining otherwise.

Brit making it seem Kirk had a AJ Brown-like jump from Tennessee to Philadelphia isn’t surprising.

TRUTH!

Kirk only had 85 slot snaps in 2020. In 2021 that increased to 406. Part of that is on Keim for not having a better option for the outside and drafting Kirk saying he can play anywhere/Fitz taking a lot of slot snaps because he was washed.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I don't think "speed" is the differentiator that people think it is in the NFL. The difference between a 4.35 guy and a 4.49 guy over 20-30 yards is minimum. Even with Tyreek heel, the suddenness in and out of breaks and precision in route-running is far, far more important.

I don't think our "speed" guys in Ronale Moore and Hollywood Brown show much of either factor.

You’re sooo wrong.
The first thing scouts look at is speed and if they’re fast enough for the NFL. Not guessing on that one.

Of course they need other skills obviously, but if you can’t run, you’re not long for the league.

 

[oaken1]

You’re sooo wrong.
The first thing scouts look at is speed and if they’re fast enough for the NFL. Not guessing on that one.

Of course they need other skills obviously, but if you can’t run, you’re not long for the league.

Mmmnn... they are looking to see if you are a 4.4 guy or a 4.9 guy...

But the on the field difference between a 4.2 guy and a 4.4 guy on most plays is a half step at best. Maybe a step at 40 yards...and not even that if the DB checked the WR at the line and anticipated his route.
Getting separation has much more to do with crisp routes and short term burst out of the cuts.
Very rarely does a track meet determine a plays success in the nfl

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Half a step is huge in the NFL.
Obviously, it’s not a track meet but talking guys with NFL ability, that half step can be the difference between getting tackled and a TD.
4.7 guys aren’t getting separation in the NFL and they’re not getting “burst” out of breaks compared to a 4.3-4.4 guy.

 

[ajcardfan]

Half a step is huge in the NFL.
Obviously, it’s not a track meet but talking guys with NFL ability, that half step can be the difference between getting tackled and a TD.
4.7 guys aren’t getting separation in the NFL and they’re not getting “burst” out of breaks compared to a 4.3-4.4 guy.

Anquan Boldin ran a 4.71. He used to get separation.

 

[kerouac9]

Half a step is huge in the NFL.
Obviously, it’s not a track meet but talking guys with NFL ability, that half step can be the difference between getting tackled and a TD.
4.7 guys aren’t getting separation in the NFL and they’re not getting “burst” out of breaks compared to a 4.3-4.4 guy.

You have to have sufficient speed, but if speed was all that mattered John Brown would be a perennial all-pro.

There are tons of 4.70 guys getting in and out of their breaks cleaner than Rondale Moore. Thats why Rondale Moore is a scrub and Anquan Boldin was a star.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Anquan Boldin ran a 4.71. He used to get separation.

I knew someone would come up with a few exceptions.
Kurt Warner worked at a grocery store too.

 

[HairZach]

Ok, what WR in 5 years has Kyler done well with other than Hopkins who he could just throw it to and know he would adjust and make a great catch?

I said for years he made Kirk look like crap and nobody wanted to resign him and as soon as he gets to the Jags he looks like a legit NFL wide receiver.

My point being, Kyler so far has not really allowed any WR outside of a top 5 guy and likely Hall of Fame WR, to show anything.

Kirk looks exactly the same in Jacksonville as he did in Arizona. Lots of yards and big plays couched with: games where he disappears, games missed due to injuries, and a few crucial drops. He's a very good and productive wide receiver, with flaws that make fans hate him and take his production for granted.

The big selling point for Kirk is that Kyler hasn't been able to consistently connect on deep balls since he left for the Jags. Kyler's throwing highlights are almost all thrown to Kirk. Kirk is very good now and was very good in Arizona as well.

 

[ajcardfan]

I knew someone would come up with a few exceptions.
Kurt Warner worked at a grocery store too.

You should have remembered that one.

Dogmatic statements are always flawed.

 

[Harry]

Mmmnn... they are looking to see if you are a 4.4 guy or a 4.9 guy...

But the on the field difference between a 4.2 guy and a 4.4 guy on most plays is a half step at best. Maybe a step at 40 yards...and not even that if the DB checked the WR at the line and anticipated his route.
Getting separation has much more to do with crisp routes and short term burst out of the cuts.
Very rarely does a track meet determine a plays success in the nfl

It’s more about the round. Fast guys go early, good route runners late 2 or 3.

 

[Krangodnzr]

You have to have sufficient speed, but if speed was all that mattered John Brown would be a perennial all-pro.

There are tons of 4.70 guys getting in and out of their breaks cleaner than Rondale Moore. Thats why Rondale Moore is a scrub and Anquan Boldin was a star.

I mentioned that before, but I was listening to an NFL star talk about WR speed. He said it was the most overrated aspect in all of football. If I run a great route, it doesn't matter if I run a 4.7, I can get open.

It matters a lot for corners because slow corners can't make up for a good route.

 

[DVontel]

I run a great route, it doesn't matter if I run a 4.7, I can get open

I think this more so depends on your 3-cone time as well though.

 

[Garthshort]

I like him but first round? Wow.

It does seem that many VG NFL WR's sort of came out of left field. I've seen enough of him to feel that he'll be a good NFL Receiver, but have no idea if he'll be very good. Michael Wilson might be a good comparison.

 

[SoonerLou]

Kirk looks exactly the same in Jacksonville as he did in Arizona. Lots of yards and big plays couched with: games where he disappears, games missed due to injuries, and a few crucial drops. He's a very good and productive wide receiver, with flaws that make fans hate him and take his production for granted.

The big selling point for Kirk is that Kyler hasn't been able to consistently connect on deep balls since he left for the Jags. Kyler's throwing highlights are almost all thrown to Kirk. Kirk is very good now and was very good in Arizona as well.

Yep. Hopkins as the #1 Wr and Kirk in the slot/deep threat was the sweet spot for Kyler.

It is funny how the CD Lamb non decision was a huge lifeline for the Cowboys and the Cards are still reeling. Even if I wanted Wirfs. Because the Cowboys faced the same decision as the Cardinals. Did they really need to add another WR when they had Cooper and Michael Gallup both putting up 1000 yards?

They did and loaded up. And now are still a viable team despite Gallup falling off a cliff and Cooper being too expensive.

I truly hope Monti doesnt make the same mistake as Keim. I hope he doesnt think Michael Pittman or Tee Higgins is enough.

I know its unlikely to happen but it scares me to think Monti trades down just to draft Dallas Turner or another defensive player first. And I like Turner, but yea. Get a high priced FA and MHJ if you can.

 

[slanidrac16]

Yep. Hopkins as the #1 Wr and Kirk in the slot/deep threat was the sweet spot for Kyler.

It is funny how the CD Lamb non decision was a huge lifeline for the Cowboys and the Cards are still reeling. Even if I wanted Wirfs. Because the Cowboys faced the same decision as the Cardinals. Did they really need to add another WR when they had Cooper and Michael Gallup both putting up 1000 yards?

They did and loaded up. And now are still a viable team despite Gallup falling off a cliff and Cooper being too expensive.

I truly hope Monti doesnt make the same mistake as Keim. I hope he doesnt think Michael Pittman or Tee Higgins is enough.

I know its unlikely to happen but it scares me to think Monti trades down just to draft Dallas Turner or another defensive player first. And I like Turner, but yea. Get a high priced FA and MHJ if you can.

Higgins is going to cost WAY too much as will Pittman and Pittman is going to be franchise anyway. Maybe a guy like Gabe Davis plus MHJ would be a huge improvement.
Signing an experience F/A wr also is a great thing if we can’t get MHJ. We could then grab one of the other wr that will be available.