2024 Draft Countdown/NFL Prospects thread

[BritCard]

that play isnt the best example to make the point you are trying to make -- a scramble play that had Wilson running to the opposite side of the field that Murray moved to.

A scramble play? He just shuffled to his left away from the pressure. It's basic QB play.

He's a yard inside the hash. He's fully set. He's not under pressure. Wilson is 3 yards outside the hash when he releases the ball. How is this any different to him throwing to his left from his original position? He's basically throwing an out route but in the center of the field from an unpressured pocket.

The excuses Kyler gets here are wild. The top 15 QB's in the league make this throw 9 times out of 10. This is basic stuff.

 

[BritCard]

I'm not sure why one factor--trust in the target's body control with the ball in the air--should be the only one that matters?

Through six games last year with Kyler/No DHop Hollywood was on pace for 181 targets/121 receptions/1374 yards/8 TDs.

I believe Brit was one of the people who pointed that out (last year as well) heh

Man this is rich coming from the "small sample size" guy.

He had 6 good games with Kyler and you're using that to defend Kyler's ability to get the best out of WR's? A 6 game spell?

While simultaneously saying Brown is ass and we need to move on from him. Which is it?

If anything, this is proving my point that it's bad QB play is leading to poor WR stats.

 

[BritCard]

Lol. Christian Kirk got 4 years, 72 million, with a 20 million dollar signing bonus. I think Kyler did him ok.

You're kidding right?

Nobody here wanted to pay Kirk more than $10m. MANY people said he wasn't worth more than $8m. People argued with me for saying he was going to get Curtis Samuel money ($11m) plus the cap increase. People wanted to fight me for saying Kirk was a good player being held back by bad coaching and bad QB play.

Everyone here thought the Jaguars had lost their mind and Kirk was a JAG.

And now you say Kyler did him right because the Jags could see he was a good player being held back by a crappy QB and scheme? Get out of here man.

 

[BritCard]

Kirk looks exactly the same in Jacksonville as he did in Arizona. Lots of yards and big plays couched with: games where he disappears, games missed due to injuries, and a few crucial drops. He's a very good and productive wide receiver, with flaws that make fans hate him and take his production for granted.

The big selling point for Kirk is that Kyler hasn't been able to consistently connect on deep balls since he left for the Jags. Kyler's throwing highlights are almost all thrown to Kirk. Kirk is very good now and was very good in Arizona as well.

Man, people are really insisting on clowning themselves with their revisionist Kirk takes today it seems.

Comparing Kirk to Larry's corpse

I mean the 3 games he was out it was noticeable. His 2020 stats are very similar to Kirks and in 2019 he was just flat out better than Kirk. I think there's a higher chance of Larry having a bounce back year than there is of Kirk ever turning into a reliable weapon. If Larry doesnt retire right now he is better than all but 1 or 2 receivers on the roster. We usually play with 3 WR sets. If you want to cut Larry you want to cut every WR besides Hopkins.

Comparing Kirk to AJ Green's corpse

He makes a ton of mistakes and yet I still like him more than Kirk.

Criticising what the Jags paid him

Looks like Jags are hoping that paying Kirk #1 WR money will make him a #1 WR. An "if you build it they will come" moment.

You admitting how much better Kirk had been with the Jags and how much you underrated him here.

We've seen Kirk and Brown perform outside the cardinals and we've seen them in Kliff's offense.

Kirks year with the jags this year is better than anything Hollywood did with the Ravens.

Comparing them in Kliffs offense, Brown this year felt like a step down from Kirk last year. It's hard to say for sure, but it seemed like Brown has worse hands and got less separation. Of course Kyler was extremely inaccurate this year so that is probably clouding things along with Brown's injuries.

This board, myself included, underrated Kirk because he wasn't a true game changer like Hopkins or prime AJ Green. I'm not sure Hollywood is a game changer either. I struggle to see him filling the void left by Hopkins. It would be really cool if he did though.

 

[Stout]

Man fans are so fickle. 10 weeks ago after the first Niners game he was a legit WR1 prospect. Kyler plays like ass and now he's not even a WR2.

This is going to be like Trey McBride last year all over again. Wilson is going to be a very good starting WR.

Here's the very first play of Sundays game and Kyler throwing high and wide to a wide open Wilson on a dig that would have been a 20+ yard gain.

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Nothing to do with talent--everything to do with availability. He had major injury problems coming into the draft and now has major injury questions in the NFL. It's not that he couldn't be a top WR and more that he can't be counted on.

 

[football karma]

A scramble play? He just shuffled to his left away from the pressure. It's basic QB play.

He's a yard inside the hash. He's fully set. He's not under pressure. Wilson is 3 yards outside the hash when he releases the ball. How is this any different to him throwing to his left from his original position? He's basically throwing an out route but in the center of the field from an unpressured pocket.

The excuses Kyler gets here are wild. The top 15 QB's in the league make this throw 9 times out of 10. This is basic stuff.

we will just disagree -- a QB moving to his right and then throwing to a player running hard left into the middle of the field isnt a standard or easy throw.

In a scramble drill -- Wilson should have broken deep more north/south on his side of the hashes vs straight east/ west.

 

[Harry]

I’m concerned that the more I watch Wilson, the more I worry about his lack of separation.

 

[juza76]

A scramble play? He just shuffled to his left away from the pressure. It's basic QB play.

He's a yard inside the hash. He's fully set. He's not under pressure. Wilson is 3 yards outside the hash when he releases the ball. How is this any different to him throwing to his left from his original position? He's basically throwing an out route but in the center of the field from an unpressured pocket.

The excuses Kyler gets here are wild. The top 15 QB's in the league make this throw 9 times out of 10. This is basic stuff.

Both excuses and blame are wild
Murray Will be evaluated next season hopefully with a better group of receivers
He Is not the same Murray right now, i follow both football and soccer, players coming from that injury need more time before being back at their best

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

What's the first thing said when a WR starts becoming less effective? He's lost a step!!
I'm sure he's still running great routes and getting in and oit his breaks the same.

I didn't mean speed is the only factor but it's the first thing looked at and, if you don't have speed, it's much harder to be effective.

 

[kerouac9]

I'm sure he's still running great routes and getting in and oit his breaks the same.

Probably yes to the former and absolutely not to the latter. Suddenness and quick-twitch are the things that go as you age. Then you have to make up for it by shielding the ball and subtly pulling on the opponents' jersey.

 

[daves]

In the latest projection from The Athletic following week 14, the Cardinals remain in the #2 spot. In fact, the top four did not change since last week.

Their model may have Arizona with fractionally fewer projected wins than New England, but as we know, if they end up with the same record, the Cards would actually pick after the Patriots by virtue of strength of schedule. Similarly, if the current 5-win teams (Giants, Bears, Chargers, Titans, Jets) finish with the same record, their current strengths of schedule would have them drafting in that order, rather than the order shown below.

Team	Projected Wins	Playoff Chance
1. Carolina -> Chicago	2.9	Eliminated
2. Arizona	3.9	Eliminated
3. New England	4.1	Eliminated
4. Washington	4.8	Eliminated
5. LA Chargers	5.6	0.0%
6. NY Giants	5.6	0.5%
7. Tennessee	6.2	Eliminated
8. NY Jets	6.3	Eliminated
9. Chicago	6.6	2.4%
10. Las Vegas	7.1	1.2%

The Athletic sees the Bears taking a QB at #1 only if they clean house. "If you’re going to give up on a soon-to-be 25-year-old quarterback like Fields, whom you’ve really never had a plan for, who’s to say the exact same thing won’t happen again?"

If the Patriots miss out on one of the top two QBs, they see a trade down for more assets as a likely move. "There shouldn’t be panic in New England if the Patriots fall out of the top two and miss on Williams and Maye, especially if the franchise moves on from Bill Belichick." "New England has three picks in the top 70, but having four or five would look a lot better — a trade might be the play. With or without a new coach, this draft is a great opportunity for a fresh start."

As for the Cardinals:

3. Arizona Cardinals​

Top needs: WR, Edge

The Cardinals can move off Kyler Murray this year, but it won’t be simple. Additionally, as I outlined last week, the Cardinals do have some promising young pieces on the roster and own more draft ammo than anyone this year. There may not be a team in the NFL with a bigger opportunity to flip its lot in life than Arizona.

Murray’s best years as a pro came with DeAndre Hopkins, so if Arizona can land Marvin Harrison Jr., that’s the move. If not, the Cardinals should consider trading down — even with all those picks already banked. They can cross off a ton of boxes in this draft. The Cardinals could keep Murray and aim to be next year’s version of the 2023 Texans.

Regarding the Commanders, they write: "[W]ith five picks in the top 100, Washington should be targeting the No. 1 or No. 2 slot via trade [for a QB]."

 

[Garthshort]

I’m concerned that the more I watch Wilson, the more I worry about his lack of separation.

Harry, a good point, but let's see how he does with a year and an offseason under his belt. At the very least, he has a chance.

 

[HairZach]

Man, people are really insisting on clowning themselves with their revisionist Kirk takes today it seems.

Yeah I overhated Kirk until he left. Looking back at his production then and seeing his production now, its clear that despite him not being elite, he was good back then and is good now. It would be dumb to claim otherwise, the stats don't lie.

 

[Harry]

Yeah I overhated Kirk until he left. Looking back at his production then and seeing his production now, its clear that despite him not being elite, he was good back then and is good now. It would be dumb to claim otherwise, the stats don't lie.

I still think the price was too high. You can draft that level often.

 

[kerouac9]

I still think the price was too high. You can draft that level often.

And yet here we are.

 

[DVontel]

Yeah I overhated Kirk until he left. Looking back at his production then and seeing his production now, its clear that despite him not being elite, he was good back then and is good now. It would be dumb to claim otherwise, the stats don't lie.

His stats aren’t that much different now than it was his last year with us when Kliff stopped sabotaging him & finally put him in the slot where he should’ve been since his first year.

He did not make a AJ Brown from Tennessee to Philly of Stefon Diggs from Minnesota to Buffalo type of jump.

 

[SECTION 11]

I still wouldn’t have overpaid for Kirk. Guy is the Jake Plummer of receivers.

 

[kerouac9]

His stats aren’t that much different now than it was his last year with us when Kliff stopped sabotaging him & finally put him in the slot where he should’ve been since his first year.

He did not make a AJ Brown from Tennessee to Philly of Stefon Diggs from Minnesota to Buffalo type of jump.

Unfortunate situation for Kirk his first year under Kliff. Fitz was on the team; the other WRs were Damiere Byrd (#3 in WR targets that season-- insane!), KeeSean Johsnon, and Pharoh Cooper. Fitz was the Slot guy in 3WR situations.

At the same time, Keim was telling everyone that Kirk could play anywhere (like he would later do with Rondale Moore). Kliff was new to the NFL; you can't blame him for trusting his GM, especially when everyone else were scrubs.

In 2020 DHop arrives and is cemented on the left side. Fitz is on his retirement tour and still gets the easy targets from the slot until essentially yeeting himself from the roster at the end of the year.

Bruh. Kirk was FOURTH on the team in targets in 2018 -- Ricky Seals-Jones had more. That team sucked.

 

[football karma]

I still think the price was too high. You can draft that level often.

certainly once they hit UFA

but a year prior? who knows, maybe Keim tried, but there wasnt a peep about it

 

[ajcardfan]

You're kidding right?

Nobody here wanted to pay Kirk more than $10m. MANY people said he wasn't worth more than $8m. People argued with me for saying he was going to get Curtis Samuel money ($11m) plus the cap increase. People wanted to fight me for saying Kirk was a good player being held back by bad coaching and bad QB play.

Everyone here thought the Jaguars had lost their mind and Kirk was a JAG.

And now you say Kyler did him right because the Jags could see he was a good player being held back by a crappy QB and scheme? Get out of here man.

Lol. I liked Kirk. Still do. Would take him back on this team in a heartbeat. I made a thread to pimp drafting him weeks ahead of that draft. Even nailed the round. I knew and followed this kid when he was in high school here. Long before you heard the name. I wanted him re-signed. Before his last season and after. Got the posts to prove it.

He got $20 million, so yeah, Kyler did him good and he did Kyler good.

I am not sure what you are upset about. I am staying right here.

 

[Fitz4Ever]

Someone else mentioned it so sorry I didn't quote....but MJH and Gabe Davis as a FA would be such a huge upgrade. I'd put Dortch in the slot and use Moore as a gadget guy

 

[oaken1]

this is my guy right here..we need to snatch him up...video quality here makes it look like he is playing in high school, lol

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[Garthshort]

oaken, while I agree he is VG, I think:
1. We have too many greater needs.
2. Conner, Carter and DeMarcado are a VG three headed group.

If we take him, I'll still be happy.

 

[schutd]

Man fans are so fickle. 10 weeks ago after the first Niners game he was a legit WR1 prospect. Kyler plays like ass and now he's not even a WR2.

This is going to be like Trey McBride last year all over again. Wilson is going to be a very good starting WR.

Here's the very first play of Sundays game and Kyler throwing high and wide to a wide open Wilson on a dig that would have been a 20+ yard gain.

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Jeebus. Unnecessarily wide shift out of the pocket only to overthrow the toss back across his body. That's ugly. I could see sliding to create an open lane for the pass, but he bolted the pocket with little to no pressure. Im starting to think he's just broken. Not sure if its him, or a result of being drafted by this craphouse org, but he looks broken.

 

[schutd]

that play isnt the best example to make the point you are trying to make -- a scramble play that had Wilson running to the opposite side of the field that Murray moved to.

Id posit he did NOT need to shift that far against Wilsons route. There was a lane to be had if he just slid right, set, and delivered the throw.