2024 NBA Draft talk: Suns own pick 22

[Hoop Head]

Hmmm

Going to deliberately ignore how I said outside of New York or LA before that? Boston, Indiana, Dallas, and Minnesota weren't built through free agency. Neither was Denver last year. There were the Heatles, who would be an exception but that's a rare exception where 3 players joined up and chose to take a little less to win together. The league has created rules to try to avoid that situation again with with designated player rules where players can re-sign with their own team for more money, making it harder to pass up, and they've created harsher luxury tax penalties.

Golden State doesn't qualify since they won before KD signed there. Toronto didn't make their title team through free agency and Milwaukee didn't either. So what are you getting at? One exception over a decade ago? We aren't the destination Miami is. Banking on being the next Miami super team isn't a good bet, IMO.

 

[Goldfield]

Personally, I find it more enjoyable having a few core players that grew up with the team who fans can identify with. The only one that really fits this category is Devin Booker.

I get it… but I’m not about to be too picky on how we get the first one. And I’m not a Labron fan.

 

[Dan H]

But it remains the only pro championship this state has ever had and it is cherished.

Especially since it came at the expense of the MF’n Yankees!

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Especially since it came at the expense of the MF’n Yankees!

And it was a crazy epic series.

 

[Cheesebeef]

and consider 200k+ attended a parade for the suns final loss to the Bulls on a hot summer day. That team was loved by the fans…

Wasn’t it like 500K?

 

[CardNots]

Wasn’t it like 500K?

I seem to remember estimated crowd being 250,000 with temperatures near 110

 

[Yuma]

It doesn't work like that. If we get under the second apron that just means we have the Mid level Exception. So we replace Nurk and KD with a guy who makes roughly $6 million a year, which is what the tax payer MLE is. That doesn't make us a contender or fill any holes that are created by letting 2 starters walk.

You seem to be confusing the tax apron for cap space. They aren't the same, at all.

Maybe. Just going by what guys who study this, like Bobby Marks say. Obviously if two years down the road A $50 Mil per year salary, and an $18 mil salary come off your books, that is going to drop you way out of the second apron. Just paying luxury tax doesn't forbid you from then signing a high priced free agent. Maybe we are misunderstanding each other?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Maybe. Just going by what guys who study this, like Bobby Marks say. Obviously if two years down the road A $50 Mil per year salary, and an $18 mil salary come off your books, that is going to drop you way out of the second apron. Just paying luxury tax doesn't forbid you from then signing a high priced free agent. Maybe we are misunderstanding each other?

It also makes KDs contract tradable in his final season for a team looking to get out from under a longer term contract. At that point there will be potentially more draft picks to trade alongside KDs contract to potentially reload with another star. I’m not saying that’s likely, just that those avenues exist.

 

[Hoop Head]

Maybe. Just going by what guys who study this, like Bobby Marks say. Obviously if two years down the road A $50 Mil per year salary, and an $18 mil salary come off your books, that is going to drop you way out of the second apron. Just paying luxury tax doesn't forbid you from then signing a high priced free agent. Maybe we are misunderstanding each other?

Paying luxury tax does forbid you from signing a high priced free agent. You need actual cap space to sign a high priced free agent and we won't have that so long as Booker and Beal are on the books.

Show me where Sean Marks says we can sign a high priced free agent. I've never seen that and I highly doubt he'd say that.

Being below the second apron is not equivalent to having cap space.

 

[Yuma]

Paying luxury tax does forbid you from signing a high priced free agent. You need actual cap space to sign a high priced free agent and we won't have that so long as Booker and Beal are on the books.

Show me where Sean Marks says we can sign a high priced free agent. I've never seen that and I highly doubt he'd say that.

Being below the second apron is not equivalent to having cap space.

Teams do it all the time via the sign and trade mechanism. It is allowed. Also bird rights like we just did with Allen. It's in the NBA FAQ. NBA salary cap is projected to be $171 million, and it will keep going up. KD's contract ends 2025/2026 at almost $55 million if we do not extend him. Nurkic's ends 2025/2026 at $19 mil and change. That's $74 million coming off the books. Who knows the trades we may do in the meantime? It's is arguable that we COULD sign a big contract that year.

 

[Hoop Head]

Teams do it all the time via the sign and trade mechanism. It is allowed. Also bird rights like we just did with Allen. It's in the NBA FAQ. NBA salary cap is projected to be $171 million, and it will keep going up. KD's contract ends 2025/2026 at almost $55 million if we do not extend him. Nurkic's ends 2025/2026 at $19 mil and change. That's $74 million coming off the books. Who knows the trades we may do in the meantime? It's is arguable that we COULD sign a big contract that year.

If we have cap space, yes we can sign someone but we're a long ways from having cap space. Sign and trades are quite different also as we need to send out salaries and talent. We didn't just sign Grayson Allen, we acquired him in the Ayton trade. We need to give up talent and/or assets in what you propose. We can't get a player for nothing. Even if we let Nurkic and KD expire to create space, we still have roughly $140 million on the books between Beal, Booker, and Grayson. The cap is projected to be $170 million and there are cap holds and smaller contracts that will eat up most of that $30 million. We'd be left with no more than the non tax payer MLE, which is like $12 million to replace 2 starters. Sure we can engage in a sign and trade and lose more picks down the line but based on how well the recent deal worked, I don't think that's the way to go. We'd still need matching salary and another team willing to take that player/contract back.

The way you were making it sound is we could simply sign anyone we want as if we had real cap space, which we won't have until Booker and Beal expire. There's no telling if that will happen either since I can see Booker extended and that's no fewer than 3 years away. We don't know who we may acquire and what their contract looks like in that time.

 

[Yuma]

If we have cap space, yes we can sign someone but we're a long ways from having cap space. Sign and trades are quite different also as we need to send out salaries and talent. We didn't just sign Grayson Allen, we acquired him in the Ayton trade. We need to give up talent and/or assets in what you propose. We can't get a player for nothing. Even if we let Nurkic and KD expire to create space, we still have roughly $140 million on the books between Beal, Booker, and Grayson. The cap is projected to be $170 million and there are cap holds and smaller contracts that will eat up most of that $30 million. We'd be left with no more than the non tax payer MLE, which is like $12 million to replace 2 starters. Sure we can engage in a sign and trade and lose more picks down the line but based on how well the recent deal worked, I don't think that's the way to go. We'd still need matching salary and another team willing to take that player/contract back.

The way you were making it sound is we could simply sign anyone we want as if we had real cap space, which we won't have until Booker and Beal expire. There's no telling if that will happen either since I can see Booker extended and that's no fewer than 3 years away. We don't know who we may acquire and what their contract looks like in that time.

We are now! My original premise is two years down the road. At that point the cap is projected to be much higher. Plus we have two years to make other trades. Everyone here is saying we won't have moves when the KD era is over. That's what I am addressing. We will have moves to make. I wasn't talking about this next season. I never was. I think that's where you and I are misunderstanding each other.

 

[Hoop Head]

We are now! My original premise is two years down the road. At that point the cap is projected to be much higher. Plus we have two years to make other trades. Everyone here is saying we won't have moves when the KD era is over. That's what I am addressing. We will have moves to make. I wasn't talking about this next season. I never was. I think that's where you and I are misunderstanding each other.

The cap only increases 10% a year. We're stuck in this hell for no less than 3 seasons because we won't even have a hint of cap space until then. That's close enough to say we're trapped in mediocrity through this KD era short of a deal trading KD for significant value.

The 10% increase was written into the last CBA.

 

[Yuma]

The cap only increases 10% a year. We're stuck in this hell for no less than 3 seasons because we won't even have a hint of cap space until then. That's close enough to say we're trapped in mediocrity through this KD era short of a deal trading KD for significant value.

The 10% increase was written into the last CBA.

That's a whole player's salary every year. It's nothing to sneeze at. Our only hope during the KD era is that this coaching change makes a difference. I think if it doesn't, then Ishbia will look at players.

 

[Hoop Head]

That's a whole player's salary every year. It's nothing to sneeze at. Our only hope during the KD era is that this coaching change makes a difference. I think if it doesn't, then Ishbia will look at players.

That 10% barely covers raises that KD, Booker, and Beal will get annually. Each get 8% increases every season. That basically eats up that increase.

 

[AzStevenCal]

That 10% barely covers raises that KD, Booker, and Beal will get annually. Each get 8% increases every season. That basically eats up that increase.

Yeah. We have no choice but to hope the front office can put a plan together that will allow us to avoid or at least escape NBA purgatory but that will be far from easy. I don't know how they'll fix this, I seriously doubt it can be done in any reasonable amount of time but we'll see.

 

[Superbone]

Booker will have been here longer than any dback had been with that squad. And the argument being made wasn’t longevity it was seeing drafted players “grow up” with the franchise. It can’t be said any of those guys “grew up” with the dbacks. They were already established known commodities.

Everyone will obviously assign whatever emotional response they’ll have as we are all individuals. And I get what you’re saying. I’d prefer another route to a championship. But we’ve failed in all those other routes. So if a Lebron route succeeds I’ll enjoy that suns championship the most. Because it will be the only one we’ve got.

At this point, as a life-long Suns fan, probably longer than many here have been alive, my soul might be up for discussion for a Phoenix Suns NBA Championship.

 

[Superbone]

Outside of LA or New York, I can't think of an example of a team that became a contender because it signed multiple free agents either. So that isn't exactly a recipe for success.

Our team now and the season we just went through reminds me of that Lakers team when they signed Gary Payton and Karl Malone.

 

[Yuma]

That 10% barely covers raises that KD, Booker, and Beal will get annually. Each get 8% increases every season. That basically eats up that increase.

You just want to argue, don't you? $17 MIL a year is a decent salary for some players. I know you know what I mean.

 

[Hoop Head]

You just want to argue, don't you? $17 MIL a year is a decent salary for some players. I know you know what I mean.

I'm not looking to argue, I'm trying to understand why you believe we'll be able to add talent so easily. First apron, second apron, it doesn't matter, without actual cap space we can't add talent to this team without also subtracting talent and due to the restrictions at our payroll it won't be easy. We have roughly 6 NBA players now and can't really afford to lose anyone. Without cap space we'll need to part with talent to add talent so retooling won't be easy.

 

[Yuma]

I'm not looking to argue, I'm trying to understand why you believe we'll be able to add talent so easily. First apron, second apron, it doesn't matter, without actual cap space we can't add talent to this team without also subtracting talent and due to the restrictions at our payroll it won't be easy. We have roughly 6 NBA players now and can't really afford to lose anyone. Without cap space we'll need to part with talent to add talent so retooling won't be easy.

IDK, the podcasts and radio folks I listen to are worrying about too many of the guys opting in to their player options because it will limit what we can do this season to make the team better. I guess I am getting more of a "we have options" theme to the Suns shows I listen to and watch. Maybe that's why I am thinking we have moves. Brendon Klein, and the guys at PHX seem to think we will be able to make moves and add talent. They walk you through it. This board is the most negative about our options, not saying you, but in general, this board has the most "we are screwed" takes of any fan site I have been on lately.

 

[Hoop Head]

IDK, the podcasts and radio folks I listen to are worrying about too many of the guys opting in to their player options because it will limit what we can do this season to make the team better. I guess I am getting more of a "we have options" theme to the Suns shows I listen to and watch. Maybe that's why I am thinking we have moves. Brendon Klein, and the guys at PHX seem to think we will be able to make moves and add talent. They walk you through it. This board is the most negative about our options, not saying you, but in general, this board has the most "we are screwed" takes of any fan site I have been on lately.

Because Suns fans aren't going to continue to consume media that says we're screwed. It's in their best interest to paint a rosy picture of the future. Suns media did that back when we signed Ariza and Tyson Chandler also. I'm not surprised they're continuing to do so now.

We do have a number of guys who will likely pick up their options like Damien Lee and Drew Eubanks but since they're minimum players I don't see it as much of an issue since we need someone at the end of the bench regardless. I'd prefer better players but given James Jones track record I never expected much better.


We'll see what happens but I don't expect much improvement in terms of talent short of dealing one of the big 3. We're likely stuck with what we have until the trade deadline and then things will be reevaluated.

 

[Covert Rain]

IDK, the podcasts and radio folks I listen to are worrying about too many of the guys opting in to their player options because it will limit what we can do this season to make the team better. I guess I am getting more of a "we have options" theme to the Suns shows I listen to and watch. Maybe that's why I am thinking we have moves. Brendon Klein, and the guys at PHX seem to think we will be able to make moves and add talent. They walk you through it. This board is the most negative about our options, not saying you, but in general, this board has the most "we are screwed" takes of any fan site I have been on lately.

They are just laying out all the possibilities. I have seen none of the guys take overly rose colored glasses positions. Most of the guys have been saying the Suns are limited in what they can do. However, they are also at the same time trying to layout the possibilities regardless if they are limited, unlikely but still possible. What are they supposed to do? Take the same direction as some of this forum that we are doomed, no options at all.....the world is ending? The focus should be what options are out there and what can we do.

 

[taz02]

KD and Nurkic come off the books in the 2026-27 season. Looking forward and not including RO new contract, we’ll have 4 guys under contract in 2026-2027, totaling 140.6m. With a projected cap of 171.m we’d have 30m in cap space to use for 11 players. Booker and Beal are at 115m alone.

If we do nothing to mess up our cap space, the 2027-28 season, when Beal’s contract comes off the books we’ll have some serious cap space.

I don’t know what people outside this board are saying, or why, but the suns ability to improve the team beyond the existing group is seriously limited.

 

[AzStevenCal]

They are just laying out all the possibilities. I have seen none of the guys take overly rose colored glasses positions. Most of the guys have been saying the Suns are limited in what they can do. However, they are also at the same time trying to layout the possibilities regardless if they are limited, unlikely but still possible. What are they supposed to do? Take the same direction as some of this forum that we are doomed, no options at all.....the world is ending? The focus should be what options are out there and what can we do.

I still hope for the best but I have trouble figuring out how it could happen.

Everyone says we have moves to make, fine. But so does every other team and unlike us, most of them have considerably more assets to work with, more cap room to sign players with and far fewer CBA related restrictions placed upon them. IOW, we need very smart people making very smart decisions with very little margin for error and some of us question whether we can expect that from our Front Office.