2024 Texans pick watch thread

[slanidrac16]

Now what? Well for starters it should factor into how you view your gm if a bunch of yahoos on a sports board were right in their criticism of your actions at the point in time of the action.

Right in whose eyes? We got a starting OT that played every down this year and played a role on an offensive line that was 4th in the league at running the ball AND an additional 1st round pick.
Far cry from the Suggs for Skillet hands.

 

[TheCardFan]

Will Anderson can still be the better choice if he's merely a five-time Pro Bowl player and not a perennial defensive player of the year candidate. A lot of folks try to knock down Will Anderson because he's "just" a blue-chip two-way player because he didn't get 13 sacks -- just 7 sacks, 10 TFLs, 22 QB hits, and 32 pressures.

Tough to compare a LT to a DE.

If we were saying Will Anderson straight up vs Paris Johnson - that is one thing. Time will tell.
But you have to factor in the additional first round pick we got - and now its WA vs PJJ and who we draft this year.

Maybe WA becomes the next Nick Bosa but even so - PJJ could neutralize him 1/1. Who is better then?

Side note, the stats above are replacement level stats. I expect Will Anderson to improve but I also expect Paris to as well.

Here are the guys who were as good or slightly better stats wise this year:

Carl Granderson
Kwity Paye
Malcolm Koonce
Dayo Odeyingbo
Dorance Armstrong
Charles Omenihu
Mike Danna
AJ Espenesa

 

[Card'em]

Will Anderson can still be the better choice if he's merely a five-time Pro Bowl player and not a perennial defensive player of the year candidate. A lot of folks try to knock down Will Anderson because he's "just" a blue-chip two-way player because he didn't get 13 sacks -- just 7 sacks, 10 TFLs, 22 QB hits, and 32 pressures.

What if PJJ is a five-time Pro Bowl player as well? If both Anderson and PJJ are Pro Bowl players with comparable star status at their positions, who is the "better" player and which team got the "better" of the trade? The bottom line is that both players had good, but not great rookie years and the rest is speculation.

 

[ajcardfan]

Tough to compare a LT to a DE.

If we were saying Will Anderson straight up vs Paris Johnson - that is one thing. Time will tell.
But you have to factor in the additional first round pick we got - and now its WA vs PJJ and who we draft this year.

Maybe WA becomes the next Nick Bosa but even so - PJJ could neutralize him 1/1. Who is better then?

Side note, the stats above are replacement level stats. I expect Will Anderson to improve but I also expect Paris to as well.

Here are the guys who were as good or slightly better stats wise this year:

Carl Granderson
Kwity Paye
Malcolm Koonce
Dayo Odeyingbo
Dorance Armstrong
Charles Omenihu
Mike Danna
AJ Espenesa

He isn't a LT until he starts playing there. I know we all I assume he will do that at some point, as soon as next season. But, they could easily decide to not reflip him to reverse muscle memory again. Nothing wrong with a really good RT.

 

[TheCardFan]

He isn't a LT until he starts playing there. I know we all I assume he will do that at some point, as soon as next season. But, they could easily decide to not reflip him to reverse muscle memory again. Nothing wrong with a really good RT.

My bad - I meant OT.

 

[kerouac9]

If we were saying Will Anderson straight up vs Paris Johnson - that is one thing. Time will tell.
But you have to factor in the additional first round pick we got - and now its WA vs PJJ and who we draft this year.

Maybe WA becomes the next Nick Bosa but even so - PJJ could neutralize him 1/1. Who is better then?

Side note, the stats above are replacement level stats. I expect Will Anderson to improve but I also expect Paris to as well.

I agree, and if Monti pulls a very good player out of a pick in the latter third of the first round, that's going to be extremely impressive. It's more likely he gets some serviceable guy who starts for four years and moves on to an undistinguished career. I'm not counting on much from that pick. You can go back in this thread and see all the people who agreed in advance that if this pick falls much below 15 the trade was a mistake.

That said, I don't care if PJJ and Anderson themselves are an even match -- they'll play each other once every five years or so? Who cares. If Anderson is a demon across the rest of the league and PJJ is his nemesis, it doesn't mean anything.

Those are not replacement-level stats for Anderson. Get out of here.

What if PJJ is a five-time Pro Bowl player as well? If both Anderson and PJJ are Pro Bowl players with comparable star status at their positions, who is the "better" player and which team got the "better" of the trade? The bottom line is that both players had good, but not great rookie years and the rest is speculation.

Then PJJ will have been the better pick. I didn't see anything to indicate that PJJ has a Pro Bowl or All Pro ceiling. He looked like a serviceable right tackle.

 

[TheCardFan]

1) I agree, and if Monti pulls a very good player out of a pick in the latter third of the first round, that's going to be extremely impressive. 2)It's more likely he gets some serviceable guy who starts for four years and moves on to an undistinguished career.
3)That said, I don't care if PJJ and Anderson themselves are an even match -- they'll play each other once every five years or so?

1) It's still a player and part of the trade that has to be evaluated. You and I have gone down this road before. It could be TJ Watt or it could be Robert Nkemdiche but it does matter.

2) Keim isn't here anymore

3) What? To your point, why would we care what Will Anderson does if its not against us then? The point is what Will Anderson does all the time vs what PJJ will do against guys like Bosa that we will play regularly.

 

[GatorAZ]

What if PJJ is a five-time Pro Bowl player as well? If both Anderson and PJJ are Pro Bowl players with comparable star status at their positions, who is the "better" player and which team got the "better" of the trade? The bottom line is that both players had good, but not great rookie years and the rest is speculation.

You’re suggesting a wait and see approach? Blasphemy!

 

[TheCardFan]

Those are not replacement-level stats for Anderson. Get out of here.

I don't have pressure stats but each of those guys were in the same ballpark for tackles/sacks/TFL.

 

[kerouac9]

1) It's still a player and part of the trade that has to be evaluated. You and I have gone down this road before. It could be TJ Watt or it could be Robert Nkemdiche but it does matter.

2) Keim isn't here anymore

3) What? To your point, why would we care what Will Anderson does if its not against us then? The point is what Will Anderson does all the time vs what PJJ will do against guys like Bosa that we will play regularly.

Okay. So don't evaluate the trade. Through year one it looks to me like the Cards should have drafted the potential budding star and not the mid-level RT. That evaluation will evolve.

Let me ask you this: What quality of prospect must that 2024 Houston Texans pick result in to justify the trade to you? Would a solid off-ball linebacker (Zaven Collins-level) justify it for you? What about a fine #2 wide receiver (Brandon Aiyuk)?

To point 3, I guess I don't understand what the referent to "him" is in your previous post:

Maybe WA becomes the next Nick Bosa but even so - PJJ could neutralize him 1/1. Who is better then?

If Will Anderson becomes the next Nick Bosa, the trade was bad unless that Texans pick somehow results in a multi-Pro Bowler. Nick Bosa is awesome.

 

[TheCardFan]

Let me ask you this: What quality of prospect must that 2024 Houston Texans pick result in to justify the trade to you? Would a solid off-ball linebacker (Zaven Collins-level) justify it for you? What about a fine #2 wide receiver (Brandon Aiyuk)?

Fair question but not sure it can be answered until we see who we pick/what they do for us and how WA and PJJ develop.

It took Aiyuk to year 3 to be an impact player. Aiyuk today and a 10 year starting OT like PJJ would be tough to beat. Zaven Collins and PJJ would be a missed opportunity for sure.

 

[gimpy]

"If Will Anderson becomes the next Nick Bosa, the trade was bad unless that Texans pick somehow results in a multi-Pro Bowler. Nick Bosa is awesome."

IMO, it only makes the trade bad in your opinion, not mine.

I really wanted Bosa, and keep Rosen. Didn't happen. Oh, well. I quit whining and crying about it long ago.

 

[juza76]

He isn't a LT until he starts playing there. I know we all I assume he will do that at some point, as soon as next season. But, they could easily decide to not reflip him to reverse muscle memory again. Nothing wrong with a really good RT.

We are talking about a left tackle that played right tackle in his rookie season cause a veteran owned the left tackle spot, a veteran that Is sensibile worse playing right tackle
Very likely he can play at the same level or even Better at the left

 

[MadCardDisease]

If you can’t see how this comment (if accurate) cuts against monti, I don’t know what to tell you.

Yeah I don't believe that is accurate that the Cards would have taken PJJ at #3. From what I heard, the Cardinals were very high on Devon Witherspoon and would have taken him if they stayed put at #3.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Okay. So don't evaluate the trade. Through year one it looks to me like the Cards should have drafted the potential budding star and not the mid-level RT. That evaluation will evolve.

This is such a dishonest argument because it doesn't consider potential growth from PJJ at all. Anderson was considered a very pro ready prospect but didn't really have elite traits compared to Bosa or Garrett.

Let me ask you this: What quality of prospect must that 2024 Houston Texans pick result in to justify the trade to you? Would a solid off-ball linebacker (Zaven Collins-level) justify it for you? What about a fine #2 wide receiver (Brandon Aiyuk)?

If PJJ becomes a good starting tackle and the other player becomes a good starting player, I'll consider the trade a win because the Cardinals desperately just need good players right now

If Will Anderson becomes the next Nick Bosa, the trade was bad unless that Texans pick somehow results in a multi-Pro Bowler. Nick Bosa is awesome.

Or if PJJ becomes a really good LT how will you feel? I think your bias will continue until you've been proven wrong over and over again just like it was years ago when you continued to insist that Roy Williams was better than Larry Fitzgerald even when that assertion was comical at best.

 

[MadCardDisease]

ASFN in August: How could the Cardinals exchange a 5th rounder for a 7th round to trade for Dobbs? Doesn't Monti know that a 5th rounder is not a meaningless asset to be thrown away!!!!!!

ASFN in January: Monti netted essentially a late 1st round pick and a 3rd in a trade that still landed him PJJ. What a bad deal! Monti gambled and lost there.

 

[kerouac9]

This is such a dishonest argument because it doesn't consider potential growth from PJJ at all. Anderson was considered a very pro ready prospect but didn't really have elite traits compared to Bosa or Garrett.

If PJJ becomes a good starting tackle and the other player becomes a good starting player, I'll consider the trade a win because the Cardinals desperately just need good players right now

Or if PJJ becomes a really good LT how will you feel? I think your bias will continue until you've been proven wrong over and over again just like it was years ago when you continued to insist that Roy Williams was better than Larry Fitzgerald even when that assertion was comical at best.

You can throw out wild hypotheticals and personal attacks from 15 years ago all you like.

If PJJ isn’t far better than DJ Humphries at LT he’s probably a disappointment as the sixth overall pick in the draft.

If the other player isn’t better than the fifth- or sixth-best starter on a playoff-quality offense or defense, the trade is probably a failure unless PJJ ends up CLEARLY better than Will Anderson.

 

[Krangodnzr]

You can throw out wild hypotheticals and personal attacks from 15 years ago all you like.

Wild hypotheticals? You don't think there is a reasonable expectation that PJJ improves?

Personal attacks? Using your own statements? I haven't used any pejoratives against you, guy.

If PJJ isn’t far better than DJ Humphries at LT he’s probably a disappointment as the sixth overall pick in the draft.

So far so good. PJJ's rookie year was better than Humphries year three.

If the other player isn’t better than the fifth- or sixth-best starter on a playoff-quality offense or defense, the trade is probably a failure unless PJJ ends up CLEARLY better than Will Anderson.

This is all nonsense. Comparing football players is never a clear one against one comparison because of players around them and scheme, especially if they play different positions.

It was a good move for the Texans because they were much closer to being competitive immediately and the record bears that out.

 

[kerouac9]

So far so good. PJJ's rookie year was better than Humphries year three.

Different positions and tons of help, but let’s see what Krang in the next paragraph has to say about comparing players:

Comparing football players is never a clear one against one comparison because of players around them and scheme, especially if they play different positions.

I disagree. Seems like Krang from earlier in the post does as well. Tough.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

Yeah I don't believe that is accurate that the Cards would have taken PJJ at #3. From what I heard, the Cardinals were very high on Devon Witherspoon and would have taken him if they stayed put at #3.

He had a good year according to PFF

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[Krangodnzr]

Different positions and tons of help, but let’s see what Krang in the next paragraph has to say about comparing players:



I disagree. Seems like Krang from earlier in the post does as well. Tough.

You are the one comparing. And DJ also got his start at RT. Oof.

The help comment is hilarious because I've never heard anyone describe having receivers next to a tackle as "help". Help is when a back or TE assists the tackle with a chip or double block.

 

[kerouac9]

You are the one comparing. And DJ also got his start at RT. Oof.

The help comment is hilarious because I've never heard anyone describe having receivers next to a tackle as "help". Help is when a back or TE assists the tackle with a chip or double block.

Many degrees of help.

I think you can compare players. You’re welcome to be right about PJJ being a better RT than Humphries, who had never played the position before.

Congrats.

Of course, in Humps third year he was LT, but whatever.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Many degrees of help.

I think you can compare players. You’re welcome to be right about PJJ being a better RT than Humphries, who had never played the position before.

Heh neither had Paris. Nice that there is a slippery assertion that maybe he had.

Congrats.

Of course, in Humps third year he was LT, but whatever.

Eh that's right, second year. My mistake.

Paris is also light years better than Bobbie Massie was who turned into a pretty good RT for years.

My point is it's pure folly to judge guys after year one. Year two? I think that generally is a better point to really start the evaluation. Their were numerous posters acting like McBride was a blown pick and right now he's starting to look like one of the best Cardinals picks in a long time.

 

[gimpy]

Jordan Love looked pretty good last night.

 

[Evil Ash]

With Tampa's impending victory, the highest the Texans pick can be is 27.