4th round pick - Logan Thomas QB VT

[Mulli]

I guess this is what I disagree with. Even a disappointing 4th round pick should play 200+ snaps for you on special teams his rookie season, with the hope of contributing in sub packages for another 200+ plays his second year.

The problem with Logan Thomas is that if he doesn't/can't develop, then you're going to get 0 snaps from him and have to use a lower-round pick/free agent/veteran free agent to fill the role that you could have plugged a superior prospect into.

Just as an example--Alameda Ta'Amu was a 4th round pick in 2012. If Logan Thomas works out (a high-unlikelihood proposition in the best of circumstances--like 1 in 200), you don't even get that kind of contribution.

I don't get it. So how many snaps do you think the patriots second round pick get this year? Will he play on special teams?

 

[HoodieBets]

I don't get it. So how many snaps do you think the patriots second round pick get this year? Will he play on special teams?

The Pats will be lucky if their 1st round pick plays 200 snaps word is he will start the year on PUP plus even when he comes back he wont play much ST.

 

[kerouac9]

You mean Alameda Ta'Amu who played 0 games for the team that drafted him? Much less 200+ snaps on special teams.

Every player is a gamble. There are no guarantees that a player will stick no matter which round you draft him in (see Ryan Leaf). But if you do your homework and keep the risk balanced with the reward its all good. IMO Thomas is a low risk (well, as low as any quarterback is) extremely high reward player. Kind of like Mathieu was/is. If Peterson wasn't on this team he probably wouldn't have been drafted (at least not in the third round) because the risk would have been too high.

Its BASK taking a calculated risk and if they see something in Thomas that can be worked with then its an acceptable one as far as I am concerned.

Isn't this basically the case with any QB prospect that gets taken? I don't understand the "low risk" part--isn't the risk that he doesn't do anything. Even for a 7th round pick, not playing at all is a waste of a pick. From the last three drafts we've gotten Sam Acho (starting OLB by the end of his rookie year), Bobbie Massie (starting RT by the end of his rookie year), and Earl Watford (presumtive starting RG in his second season). Are you telling me that if Logan Thomas does nothing in two seasons, that's still a good pick compared to the production we've gotten from prior choices at that position?

Ryan Swope was a low-risk, high-reward selection last year. It didn't work out, but the possible reward was definitely worth the risk.

I don't get it. So how many snaps do you think the patriots second round pick get this year? Will he play on special teams?

I don't want the Cards taking their drafting advice from the New England Patriots.

 

[oaken1]

Isn't this basically the case with any QB prospect that gets taken? I don't understand the "low risk" part--isn't the risk that he doesn't do anything. Even for a 7th round pick, not playing at all is a waste of a pick. From the last three drafts we've gotten Sam Acho (starting OLB by the end of his rookie year), Bobbie Massie (starting RT by the end of his rookie year), and Earl Watford (presumtive starting RG in his second season). Are you telling me that if Logan Thomas does nothing in two seasons, that's still a good pick compared to the production we've gotten from prior choices at that position?

Ryan Swope was a low-risk, high-reward selection last year. It didn't work out, but the possible reward was definitely worth the risk.



I don't want the Cards taking their drafting advice from the New England Patriots.

Because anything less than all seven draft picks starting as rookies is a total failure of a draft......keep on pissing in the kool aid man,...but we played that scenario out for thirty plus years in Cardinal town.....

the way this team is being put together and maintained....I would not be surprised if in a season or two our top three draft picks spend a year or two as backups.......

 

[Southpaw]

Good read.

This was interesting

George Whitfield. Isn't this the guy who was holding brooms up in the air to simulate a pass rush at Manziel's Pro Day?

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My guess is that Whitfield is more fraud than guru.

http://whitfieldqb.com/

 

[HoodieBets]

George Whitfield. Isn't this the guy who was holding brooms up in the air to simulate a pass rush at Manziel's Pro Day?

You must be registered for see images attach

My guess is that Whitfield is more fraud than guru.

http://whitfieldqb.com/

Seeing as he has worked with Big Ben, Cam, and Luck I doubt it. Guess what they all have in common with LT...Big, Mobile and Cannons for arms.

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[CardNots]

For this year I find a lot of value in Thomas running the scout team. Might help the defensive preparation for SF and the Hawks. Also I'll be glued to the broadcast of game one of the preseason.

 

[D-Dogg]

George Whitfield. Isn't this the guy who was holding brooms up in the air to simulate a pass rush at Manziel's Pro Day?

You must be registered for see images attach

My guess is that Whitfield is more fraud than guru.

http://whitfieldqb.com/

And your credentials are??

Brooms are a great simulator. I know from basketball coaching, where the use of brooms, blocking pads and all kinds of things are used to simulate and exaggerate contact, defense and pressure. I've used them myself, and seen trainers for NBA players do the same (finishing drill for big men involve being hit, then shooting over a broom).

If anything, the guy using brooms to simulate a pass rush probably is a guru, because he's using something extra to provide pressure, interruption of field of vision, etc. Given the rest of his track record, I'm pretty sure he knows wtf he his doing.

 

[kerouac9]

Because anything less than all seven draft picks starting as rookies is a total failure of a draft......keep on pissing in the kool aid man,...but we played that scenario out for thirty plus years in Cardinal town.....

the way this team is being put together and maintained....I would not be surprised if in a season or two our top three draft picks spend a year or two as backups.......

You noticed that out first- and second-round picks in the 2013 NFL draft were not starters last year, right?

 

[b8rtm8nn]

George Whitfield. Isn't this the guy who was holding brooms up in the air to simulate a pass rush at Manziel's Pro Day?

You must be registered for see images attach

My guess is that Whitfield is more fraud than guru.

http://whitfieldqb.com/

The videos with Whitfield are very good - guy has incredible insight and perception on picking up nuances that hold back some of these college QBs - I can see why he gets so many clients.

 

[Duckjake]

You noticed that out first- and second-round picks in the 2013 NFL draft were not starters last year, right?

You did notice that only 5 of the Cards last 24 draft picks were starters last year. And that's if you count Ellington and Mathieu as starters. If you don't there were as many starters from the 2004 draft as from the 2011, 2012, and 2013 drafts combined. And yet the Cards were one blown 4th quarter lead from making the playoffs.

Building through the draft? An urban myth.

 

[jf-08]

I dont understand how anyone can bag on a 4th round pick with such high potential. There is really NO risk. If he falls flat on his face you just shrug and say, "oh well, he was just a 4th round project pick anyway."

But if he works out you have the steal of the draft.

For the record I am drinking the koolaid on this one. The only misgiving I have is if he can check down. It seems like he didnt do it much in the admittedly little bit of film of him I have watched.

Am I alone in this?

Pisted from my pjone so please excuse any type-o's or misspelings

Well said.

 

[jf-08]

We should put K9 as director of draft. He will only draft starters.

 

[Russ Smith]

You mean Alameda Ta'Amu who played 0 games for the team that drafted him? Much less 200+ snaps on special teams.

Every player is a gamble. There are no guarantees that a player will stick no matter which round you draft him in (see Ryan Leaf). But if you do your homework and keep the risk balanced with the reward its all good. IMO Thomas is a low risk (well, as low as any quarterback is) extremely high reward player. Kind of like Mathieu was/is. If Peterson wasn't on this team he probably wouldn't have been drafted (at least not in the third round) because the risk would have been too high.

Its BASK taking a calculated risk and if they see something in Thomas that can be worked with then its an acceptable one as far as I am concerned.

TM was a GREAT college player, his risk was all personal behavior.

Thomas was not a great college player his risk is can he play better in the NFL than he did in college.

Both had risks absolutely but they were completely different risks. the only question on TM as a player was his size, everyone knew he could actually play.

 

[cardncubfan]

And your credentials are??

Brooms are a great simulator. I know from basketball coaching, where the use of brooms, blocking pads and all kinds of things are used to simulate and exaggerate contact, defense and pressure. I've used them myself, and seen trainers for NBA players do the same (finishing drill for big men involve being hit, then shooting over a broom).

If anything, the guy using brooms to simulate a pass rush probably is a guru, because he's using something extra to provide pressure, interruption of field of vision, etc. Given the rest of his track record, I'm pretty sure he knows wtf he his doing.

The videos with Whitfield are very good - guy has incredible insight and perception on picking up nuances that hold back some of these college QBs - I can see why he gets so many clients.

Agreed. His technique works apparently. I'm not sure why anyone would want to criticize what he is doing if he is getting good results.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Seeing as he has worked with Big Ben, Cam, and Luck I doubt it. Guess what they all have in common with LT...Big, Mobile and Cannons for arms.

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guess what they all DON'T have in common? They were all super successful in college and were top ten picks in the draft.

 

[Hollywood]

Isn't this basically the case with any QB prospect that gets taken? I don't understand the "low risk" part--isn't the risk that he doesn't do anything. Even for a 7th round pick, not playing at all is a waste of a pick. From the last three drafts we've gotten Sam Acho (starting OLB by the end of his rookie year), Bobbie Massie (starting RT by the end of his rookie year), and Earl Watford (presumtive starting RG in his second season). Are you telling me that if Logan Thomas does nothing in two seasons, that's still a good pick compared to the production we've gotten from prior choices at that position?

Ryan Swope was a low-risk, high-reward selection last year. It didn't work out, but the possible reward was definitely worth the risk.

The low risk is the round he is drafted. taking a gamble on a 1st round pick would be a high risk vs taking a gamble on a 7th round pick. Teams need those higher picks to work out but by the time you get into round 4 you are dealing with that in between area where you almost have to take a chance on the person you draft.

IMO given the physical skills of Thomas, the potential upside at such a valuable position and the coaching ability of BA and his staff I would call Thomas low risk pick at 120. In fact, I would say that it is a better overall pick than Manziel at 22 because I think Manziel isn't mature enough.

 

[desertdawg]

guess what they all DON'T have in common? They were all super successful in college and were top ten picks in the draft.

Right?

 

[Hollywood]

TM was a GREAT college player, his risk was all personal behavior.

Thomas was not a great college player his risk is can he play better in the NFL than he did in college.

Both had risks absolutely but they were completely different risks. the only question on TM as a player was his size, everyone knew he could actually play.

Thats my point. By the time you get into the 4th and later rounds you have to take all that into consideration. It may have been different kinds of risks but the results would have been the same. You just have to do your homework and find the best deal you can. In the case of Mathieu they had the inside track with Peterson having taken him under his wing. With Thomas maybe they saw something that minimizes the risk. And don't forget that no matter how good your safety is the position will not be as important as your QB...and Thomas (theoretically) has the physical skills to be a franchise QB.

And before you say it I know its a long shot but isn't just about any QB you draft? Farve was a second round pick. Russell Wilson 3rd. Brady was taken (I think) in the 6th? It isn't like it doesn't ever happen. I believe it is as much about the team, system and coaches as it is about the player. If any other team had drafted Brady he wouldn't have the storybook life he has now.

 

[desertdawg]

4th rounders are a big deal and opportunity, especially when our scouting is so talented. Had we not traded back, and earned another pick, Logan would be a whole lot harder to swallow. Keim and Arians kinda manifested a pick, so I'm still saying Logan wasn't a 4th rounder, but at least, well at least something.

 

[oaken1]

guess what they all DON'T have in common? They were all super successful in college and were top ten picks in the draft.

Roethlisberger was selected 11th overall in the 2004 NFL Draft by the Pittsburgh Steelers.

 

[HoodieBets]

guess what they all DON'T have in common? They were all super successful in college and were top ten picks in the draft.

Super Successful? Big Ben played in a mid major and put up big numbers its not like he won the national championship or played in the SEC. Cam Newton only had 1 amazing year unless you want to throw in some juco numbers. Guess who was the most successful college QB of all time and it meant garbage in terms of translating Tim Tebow. Your point has no merit.

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[Mulli]

Isn't this basically the case with any QB prospect that gets taken? I don't understand the "low risk" part--isn't the risk that he doesn't do anything. Even for a 7th round pick, not playing at all is a waste of a pick. From the last three drafts we've gotten Sam Acho (starting OLB by the end of his rookie year), Bobbie Massie (starting RT by the end of his rookie year), and Earl Watford (presumtive starting RG in his second season). Are you telling me that if Logan Thomas does nothing in two seasons, that's still a good pick compared to the production we've gotten from prior choices at that position?

Ryan Swope was a low-risk, high-reward selection last year. It didn't work out, but the possible reward was definitely worth the risk.



I don't want the Cards taking their drafting advice from the New England Patriots.

Good point. . Does Keim read this board?

 

[kerouac9]

Super Successful? Big Ben played in a mid major and put up big numbers its not like he won the national championship or played in the SEC. Cam Newton only had 1 amazing year unless you want to throw in some juco numbers. Guess who was the most successful college QB of all time and it meant garbage in terms of translating Tim Tebow. Your point has no merit.

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What makes you sound like an apologist is that Logan Thomas lacks both these things.

As someone who shares the quality of having to refine his mechanics with Logan Thomas, do you really want to be putting Tim Tebow's name out there?

 

[GuernseyCard]

FYI:

Brett Favre 52.4%, Jay Cutler 57.2%, Matthew Stafford 57.1%, Michael Vick 56%, Dan Marino 57.6%, Joe Montana 52%, Jim Kelly 55.6%