A First Guess At The Cardinals' Roster & PS

[Cbus cardsfan]

It just doesn't make sense to keep Williams if he's low on the depth chart on a team that likes to play 3 down RBs.

I think that if teams know he's healthy and not a system fit in AZ, he will garner some interest...like a swap of players on the roster cut to 53.

Schofield O'Brien too has to show that he's healthy and I think the Broncos whom we play in the pre-season would like him for their system, as they like smaller, faster edge players.

The problem for us with Sco is that he's too small to rush from the DE spot in the 4 man rush. What he has to hope for is to be the two-down WOLB, and he's got a good chance to earn that role if he can beat out Alexander and Okafor.

Why would he not be a system fit in Arizona?

The only reason he doesn't make the team is going to be health related.

 

[Catfish]

Mitch, I second your Wow! That was some break-down of the roster. You and Muffin are definitely on to something. This looks to be very exciting going into camp. Best of all, it may not yet be completed, coming out of OTA's. There might even be a significant signing yet to come, that could address any of the positions that you list as still questionable for a starting caliber player, or requiring better depth.

It seems unbelievable to me that we have some 46-47 new faces on the roster already this off-season, yet the quality of them is such that almost all of them (could) be significant contributors on the final 53 man roster, plus the practice squad. The competition this year should be ferocious all throughout the roster, and with the teaching talent available on this staff, the final results could approach being phenomenal.

I really regret that the opportunity to work something out with NAU concerning training camp was lost. I believe that the ability to work on several fields at once up in the cool pines would have been been very beneficial to the coaching staff, and yet still be enjoyed by the fans.

Maybe, training in the heat will have its benefits too, but I would think that the detriments of doing such might be greater than the benefits in the long run. One can only hope that the financial benefits lost to Flagstaff will be put to welcome use by Glendale. It just seems to me that it must be somewhat unsettling to the organization to be in this position this close to the start of camp. There still seem to be questions that have not been answered like, how many practice fields could they put on the great lawn? Would they put temporary bubbles on them, for the player's benefit? Where would fans sit, and would they come at all to sit in the heat day after day? Would the organization put an artificial surface on the floor of the stadium so that they can leave the grass alone to grow outside in the roll-out tray? I can't even imagine the port-a-john shortcomings in the heat etc.

With all the good things that have been forthcoming concerning the roster, there seem to be a whole lot of questions that have as yet to be addressed by the franchise concerning training camp itself. It would seem that some of those answers should have been forthcoming by now, yet the organization seems inordinately quiet about those particulars this late into the process.

 

[Garthshort]

Dan H, in the nickel, had our DL, Campbell, Dockett, Williams and Shaughnessy. I think we'd move Campbell and DD inside and play Shaughnessy and either Okafor or Giordano (assuming he's on the 53) on the outside. I just don't see Dan Williams on the field much in passing situations.

As for the RB's (with no FB) I'd go with four. And the PS games will determine which four. Also, only see four TE's, and since Jim Dray, I believe, has H-Back experience, along with ST play, he'll have a leg up as the fourth TE. King, Housler and Jefferson would be my guess for the top three. But also, I wouldn't be surprised if King or Jefferson got cut. King was vg two years ago and not so good, last year. And we know very little about Jefferson, so TE could be a landing spot for an UFA.

If Watford wins a starting job, DC is gone with Rachal the veteran backup. I have no idea about Kelemete, but hopes he makes it. Starks would also provide veteran insurance at OT if we're able to sign him. And I'm not sure about OC. The prior staff liked LS, and we'll have to see how BA and HG feel about him. Depth at that position is also a big question mark.

Too many days till TC. Can't wait. Just hope the team finds a place to hold it.

 

[Chainthroer]

Mitch- I'm glad you and Gandi have targeted in on Korey Jones. I've not seen him play in person. But, I listen to a lot of Wyoming Cowboy footfall on the radio. He seems to always be near the action. In one game, last year, he had 4 sacks. Seems to be a good kid. It was a coup for Wyoming to sign him from Ft Collins, as his father had been a running back at Colorado State U. Hopefully, he at least makes the Practice Squad.

 

[DoTheDew]

RB (3):

28 Rashard Mendenhall
30 Stepfan Taylor
38 Andre Ellington

Ryan Williams is likely to be traded. BA has said he might keep 4 RBs, but Williams isn't a good all-around fit in the offense and there are other stronger ST players, including rookies Taylor and Ellington. A 4th RB in a system that loves 3 down RBs isn't roster smart.

I agree Williams doesn't make the final roster unless he has an outstanding training camp. I'm not sure I see a team trading for him right now.

While it not might be right away, it's very likely that Daryn Colledge will be replaced in the starting lineup and when he is he will be released. It's surprising to me that SK hasn't insisted on Colledge agreeing to cut his salary in half, much the way T Doug Free just had to do with the Cowboys. But if Colledge continues on at his current salary he will be released sooner than later. As soon as Earl Watford is ready---he's the starting RG.

Colledge has little incentive to agree to a pay cut. He knows we don't save any cap room this year by cutting him and if we do cut him it frees him up to sign elsewhere and get another signing bonus.

DL (7)

ILB (5)

OLB (4)

The question here is who gets cut when DWash returns?

 

[Garthshort]

An argument for keeping four RB's. We now have:

2 Injury Prone vets + 2 Unproven Rookies = BIG ?

Something about safety in numbers.

 

[Garthshort]

Mitch, I was recently thinking about our center position, and I'm assuming that LS will be the starter. You mention Kelemete as a possible backup, but is that just a guess? Besides Cooper, who I believe it was said could play center, does any of our other OL candidates play center? Last year, we had Snyder, who while not a good OG, was very versatile, but it doesn't seem that we have anyone as versatile. Perhaps Rachal?

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Mitch, I was recently thinking about our center position, and I'm assuming that LS will be the starter. You mention Kelemete as a possible backup, but is that just a guess? Besides Cooper, who I believe it was said could play center, does any of our other OL candidates play center? Last year, we had Snyder, who while not a good OG, was very versatile, but it doesn't seem that we have anyone as versatile. Perhaps Rachal?

Jonathan Cooper. Coolest thing about Cooper is that while I was a guy pounding on the desk for Warmack, its not like this kid is not to be celebrated. The #1 coolest thing about Cooper is that he is football smart.

As for the question,

Nate Potter, he is the key, IMO. Sooner or later Levi Brown is coming back, and Bruce Arians and his coaching staff are preaching "best 5 players on the field".

From what has been deducted through debate, research, personnel acquisitions, etc., etc. The Cardinals are looking for more athletic (not always lighter players but they usually are) offensive linemen.

Not only that but I have heard Bruce Arians talk about Nate Potter twice as a possibility to put at guard, and so far Arians has pretty much foreshadowed every move he has made.

So what am I getting at ?

Simple:

2013:
LT: Brown
LG: Cooper
OC: Sendlien
RG: Potter
RT: Massie


2014:
LT: Brown ?
LG: Watford
OC: Cooper
RG: Potter
RT: Massie

That is A LOT of speculation right there. A lot of IF's and BUT's to justify those too offensive lines, but I would not be surprised if those two offensive lines are not scribbled down in a notepad somewhere in the Cardinal facility.

As for center, if Jonathan Cooper is 1/2 as smart as they say he is, and his athleticism is what is seems to be, then he has the assets to have HOF potential as a center. So, why not put him there ? Especially if it insures that the 5 best players are out on the field.

Can I go on ? Of course I can. Not only would that line instill a lot of confidence in our offensive line is would clear out cap room, and open up slots for other players, when talking about depth. MAYBE Senio Kelemete sticks with this club, but he is NOT a Arians draft pick so he may not make it past this offseason.

Thus if in 2014, Kelemete is gone, Colledge is gone, and Sendlein is gone that leaves a void at depth. 3 spots to, wait for it................., invest in the future of the offensive line. Imagine that! Instead of signing Rich Orhnberger, or Rex Hadnot, or Milford Brown, or Chris Liwienski, or Brandon Gorin, or Oliver Ross, or Al Johnson, or Chukky Okobi, or D'Anthony Batiste, or my personal favorite Ben Claxton.

Yeeelch!

But the beauty of getting those depth guys is that you can go with one vet, and two drafted players.

Like for example if you asked me to find depth this year I would say if you give me 3 roster spots I would have done the following:

1. Draft Earl Watford. - Yeah, that was a good move in any draft at any time.

2. Draft Garret Gilkey - plays OG or OT

3. Sign Kevin Boothe to a 1 to 3 yr deal - plays OT, OG or OC.

Done. Now not to say our organization has not tried to do this, but your depth needs to be a heck of a lot better when your starters are so poor, thus you have to sacrifice something to make up for other short comings.

The better our starting offensive line the better your depth, the brighter the future.

The worse the offensive line is, the more you have to concentrate on just "getting through" the year to try solving it again for next season.

LOL. What a long winded posts about practically nothing.

I guess in conclusion there are a lot of moving pieces and possibilities on the current line, and with Cooper having the ability to play any of the interior lines it opens up multiple possibilities to put the best 5 guys out there.

 

[iRobot]

The one thing that really sticks out right away to me is Powell as a practice squad addition.

I'm not 100% sure but he may not be practice squad eligible now.

Per ThePhinsider: "A player is eligible for the practice squad if they have not accrued a season of free agent eligibility according to the NFL's rules. In essence, a player has to have not been on a team's 46-man active game-day roster for more than eight games in any accrued seasons, and cannot have been on a practice squad for more than two years. A player may be placed on a team's practice squad a third time, but only so long as that team maintains 53-players on their active/inactive roster. If the team should drop below 53-players, the third year practice squad player will automatically be elevated to the main roster."

Powell was active for 13 games last season.

 

[HotSauce]

UNC tried to move Cooper to Center once before. From what I read he was so bad at it, they moved him back to guard. Maybe he'd get it here.

 

[Garthshort]

HotSauce, I read a couple of so-called experts, who said that center might be Cooper's best position.

 

[Garthshort]

Mitch, as I'm sure you've read, Daryn Colledge has been moved from LG to RG. I'm wondering whether you (and everyone else) feel that Karlos Dansby can move from ILB to OLB, once DW returns? I know he's always played inside, but seems to have the size and speed to play outside. Any chance this will happen?

 

[kerouac9]

Mitch, as I'm sure you've read, Daryn Colledge has been moved from LG to RG. I'm wondering whether you (and everyone else) feel that Karlos Dansby can move from ILB to OLB, once DW returns? I know he's always played inside, but seems to have the size and speed to play outside. Any chance this will happen?

Ugh. Please, let this stop. Please.

 

[Garthshort]

K9, I don't understand your answer. Was it because:
1. It's already been asked and answered, and I missed it?
2. Moving KD is just a stupid idea?
3. Gives you an opportunity to impress the Board?
4. All of the above?

I'd appreciate any help you can give. Thanks.

 

[kerouac9]

K9, I don't understand your answer. Was it because:
1. It's already been asked and answered, and I missed it?
2. Moving KD is just a stupid idea?
3. Gives you an opportunity to impress the Board?
4. All of the above?

I'd appreciate any help you can give. Thanks.

1. Yes. This was discussed ad nauseum by Mitch and his proxies essentially every offseason since we converted to a 3-4.
2. Yes. Taking a guy who plays at a Pro Bowl level at his current position and putting him an entirely different position, which plays away from his greatest strengths (pass coverage and flowing to the ball), makes you weaker at two positions.
3. Whatever.

Doesn't it make more sense to take Daryl Washington and make him an OLB? He's not great at the point of attack, he's not great in coverage, but he is great at using his speed to run downhill. Washington's also been able to put on weight whilst not losing speed.

I think the Arizona Cardinals should move Daryl Washington to OLB.

:logic:

 

[BigRedRage]

I think itd be a waste to move cooper to C unless we have a straight up elite guard replacing him.

 

[Mitch]

Mitch, as I'm sure you've read, Daryn Colledge has been moved from LG to RG. I'm wondering whether you (and everyone else) feel that Karlos Dansby can move from ILB to OLB, once DW returns? I know he's always played inside, but seems to have the size and speed to play outside. Any chance this will happen?

Garth, I actually have always preferred Dansby as an OLB, because of his length, cover skills and ability to chase down plays. I have always believed that he could be a factor as an edge rusher, if he were asked to do that.

What I need to see more closely is Todd Bowles' version of the 34 and how frequently he is going to turn to nickel and dime packages...to see how the LB roles are tailored and what their keys are. Then I would have a stronger sense of where the right fits are.

I could see a scenario where, based on the current personnel, Bowles tinkers with the 43 and in that case, imagine this:

LOLB Dansby
MLB Minter/Brinkley
ROLB Washington

 

[Mitch]

I think itd be a waste to move cooper to C unless we have a straight up elite guard replacing him.

I agree 100%.

 

[Garthshort]

Mitch, I know I'm playing the Devil's Advocate, but consider this:
1. You're a 3-4 team and you have a LB that can play both outside and inside.
2. I, along with most people, consider the OLB position more important since that is where your pass rushers play.
3. If KD can indeed play both positions, why wouldn't he have been tried at OLB, already?
Like I said I'm playing the Devil's Advocate.

 

[Mitch]

Mitch, I know I'm playing the Devil's Advocate, but consider this:
1. You're a 3-4 team and you have a LB that can play both outside and inside.
2. I, along with most people, consider the OLB position more important since that is where your pass rushers play.
3. If KD can indeed play both positions, why wouldn't he have been tried at OLB, already?
Like I said I'm playing the Devil's Advocate.

Dansby started out in AZ as a 43 SOLB and he looked good at it. I think he had 8 sacks in his first year.

When the Cardinals converted to the 34 he was slotted for the WILB spot, as you know. He was good there. Not great, in my estimation, because he was not a good fill and finish ILB, nor did he show a desire to blow up screens to his side. As a chaser, cover WILB and occasional blitzer, he was very good.

With the Dolphins he improved as a plugger, imo. Still not the strength of his game, but he got better at it and I am sure the coaches got after him to make those plays.

He even fared pretty well as a 3 down MLB last year when they reverted back to the 43.

I think that in both AZ and MIA he was favored as a 34 WILB. That doesn't mean he couldn't have done well as an OLB---and there was less need at OLB in MIA because they had Wake and Misi on the edges.

You asked if I thought he could play OLB. The answer to me is yes. He's a heckuva athlete. And I think he's better at making stops from angles than making stops straight on. So, it should be interesting to see what the Cards do when D-Wash returns.

 

[Duckjake]

1. Yes. This was discussed ad nauseum by Mitch and his proxies essentially every offseason since we converted to a 3-4.
2. Yes. Taking a guy who plays at a Pro Bowl level at his current position and putting him an entirely different position, which plays away from his greatest strengths (pass coverage and flowing to the ball), makes you weaker at two positions.
3. Whatever.

Doesn't it make more sense to take Daryl Washington and make him an OLB? He's not great at the point of attack, he's not great in coverage, but he is great at using his speed to run downhill. Washington's also been able to put on weight whilst not losing speed.

I think the Arizona Cardinals should move Daryl Washington to OLB.

:logic:

Is that the same logic that has Lorenzo Alexander starting at WOLB?

Do like the move of Acho to SOLB. I have always felt he was better suited for that spot.

 

[Bodha]

Love seeing how deep we are at CB and ILB. 2 positions weve always been paper thin at, 1 offseason and we are stacked at both. Amazing.

Just makes me miss Kerry Rhodes that much more. I understand ADub, but KR was tied with Dwash as our MVP. Huge contributor.

Now we are very thin at Safety. Bell brings nice experience, but hes only 1 guy. 3 others are still green.



I think we carry all 4 RBs.

 

[kerouac9]

Garth, I actually have always preferred Dansby as an OLB, because of his length, cover skills and ability to chase down plays. I have always believed that he could be a factor as an edge rusher, if he were asked to do that.

What I need to see more closely is Todd Bowles' version of the 34 and how frequently he is going to turn to nickel and dime packages...to see how the LB roles are tailored and what their keys are. Then I would have a stronger sense of where the right fits are.

I could see a scenario where, based on the current personnel, Bowles tinkers with the 43 and in that case, imagine this:

LOLB Dansby
MLB Minter/Brinkley
ROLB Washington

Oh, reality always comes in and spoils these intellectual exercises:

...but with Matt Shaughnessy pretty clearly playing OLB and not DE...

http://blog.azcardinals.com/2013/06/10/how-those-draft-choices-could-fit/

 

[Duckjake]

Well if Matt Shaughnessy can play OLB in a 3-4 I know Dansby could. Shaugnessy couldn't even play 3-4 DE.

Every day I become more convinced that the new coaching staff is clueless when it comes to defense.

But then the offense looks much better. Back to the days of the 17-0 lead and holding on to win 35-30????????????

 

[john h]

I say guess, because I am expecting a number of surprises. BA said recently that if a younger player at a lower salary is close to being as good as a veteran, he would go with the young player, because the coaches get to have him in the system longer, and obviously it helps the salary cap.

QB (3):

3 Carson Palmer
5 Drew Stanton
6 Caleb TerBush*

TerBush is a bigger, stronger athlete than Ryan Lindley---he's a project, but BA loves projects. I wrote an asterisk next to TerBush's name because it would not surprise me if BA&SK at some point sign Byron Leftwich or Charlie Batch, especially if either Palmer or Stanton becomes somewhat limited due to an injury.

RB (3):

28 Rashard Mendenhall
30 Stepfan Taylor
38 Andre Ellington

Ryan Williams is likely to be traded. BA has said he might keep 4 RBs, but Williams isn't a good all-around fit in the offense and there are other stronger ST players, including rookies Taylor and Ellington. A 4th RB in a system that loves 3 down RBs isn't roster smart.

TE (5):

87 Jeff King
84 Rob Housler
86 D.C. Jefferson
46 Kyle Auffray
80 Alex Gottlieb*

Jefferson, Auffray and Gottlieb all bring STs ability and all are very good ahtletes. Jim Dray is too slow, and Kory Sperry fits BA's description of a veteran who can't separate from younger players. Gottlieb could overtake Mike Leach as the long snapper, thus allowing BA to keep 5 TEs.

OL (9):

75 Levi Brown
61 Jonathan Cooper
63 Lyle Sendlein
71 Daryn Colledge*
70 Bobbie Massey
76 Nate Potter
64 Senio Kelemete
73 Chilo Rachal
78 Earl Watford

While it not might be right away, it's very likely that Daryn Colledge will be replaced in the starting lineup and when he is he will be released. It's surprising to me that SK hasn't insisted on Colledge agreeing to cut his salary in half, much the way T Doug Free just had to do with the Cowboys. But if Colledge continues on at his current salary he will be released sooner than later. As soon as Earl Watford is ready---he's the starting RG. It will also be interesting to see if Senio Kelemete gets time at center and whether he can oust Lyle Sendlein at some point. If not, I expect the Cardinals to draft a center next year.

WR (6)

11 Larry Fitzgerald
12 Andre Roberts
15 Michael Floyd
19 Ryan Swope
10 Robert Gill
13 Jaron Brown

Swope, Gill and Brown are speed compliments to Fitzgerald, Roberts and Floyd and the goal is for all the WRs to play faster and emerge and big-time deep threats. Swope assumes the role that T.Y. Hilton played in Indy last year and Gill becomes the Donnie Avery vertical speed threat. Jaron Brown's ability to split the seams gives him the slight edge over LaRon Byrd, Dan Bucker and Michael Rios---and keep an eye on Tyler Shaw who has the speed and playmaking ability BA loves.

It wouldn't surprise me if BA keeps 7 WRs if he decided to go with 3 RBs and 4 TEs (instead of 5). While BA will use double TE formations from time to time, his WR talent is so promising that in my opinion BA will lean heavily toward 3 WR/1 TE sets---and, of course, 4 WR sets.

DL (7)

90 Darnell Dockett
93 Calais Campbell
92 Dan Williams
98 Frostee Rucker
79 David Carter
48 Dan Giordano
67 Padric Scott

While Ricky Lumpkin, Ronald Talley and Everette Thompson have legitimate chances here I think BA&TB are going to love the motors of Carter, Giordano and Scott. If they sign Sedric Ellis, then Scott may have to wait his turn on the PS.

ILB (5)

58 Daryl Washington
51 Kevin Minter
55 Karlos Dansby
54 Jasper Brinkley
56 Reggie Walker

Dansby, Brinkley and Walker might be used at OLB at times, especially Dansby, once Daryl Washington returns. Minter has an excellent chance to start at SILB, although Brinkley is going to be very solid on running downs. I think Brinkley and Walker have edge rush ability---so it will be interesting if they will be used in that capacity.

OLB (4)

97 Lorenzo Alexander
94 Sam Acho
91 Matt Shaughnessy
57 Alex Okafor

It would seem likely that O'Brien Schofield will be traded---that is unless he plays lights-out in camp and can separate himself. It wouldn't appear as if he is physical enough to command the edge, and all the off-season moves indicate that BA&TB want to build a tough, physically imposing defense, especially in the front seven. I think that there could be a surprise here---possibly Zach Nash or Tim Fugger---both are a year stronger and both have intriguing edge rush potential. Matt Shaughnessy is a player to get excited about.

CB (5)

21 Patrick Peterson
25 Jerraud Powers
20 Antoine Cason
35 Javier Arenas
31 Justin Bethel

Jamell Fleming looks to be this year's A.J. Jefferson trade chip. Justin Bethel is a better athlete and has a higher ceiling. Plus, Bethel is a STs star. Another CB that could very well work his way into the mix is Bryan McCann. And I think that Ronnie Yell will be stashed away on the PS and could be called up if and when needed.

S (4)

37 Jeremiah Bell
32 Tyrann Mathieu
49 Rashad Johnson
36 Tony Jefferson

Bell is the wizened veteran here. Johnson is coming into his own, and the young combo of Mathieu and Jefferson is very exciting. The coaches are going to want to try to keep a roster spot open for Jonathan Amaya, especially because of his ST prowess. It is hard to imagine him making it over Jefferson, however. Mathieu and Jefferson are potential stars.

ST (2)

4 Jay Feely
9 Dave Zastudil

Solid combo here. Mike Leach will have to stave off Alex Gottlieb, however. Leach is very good, so I may be wrong about Gottlieb getting the nod.

PS (8)

62 T Jamaal Johnson-Webb
68 C/G Adam Bice or 60 T/G Joe Caprioglio
33 RB William Powell
7 WR Tyler Shaw
1 WR Michael Rios
59 DE/OLB Zach Nash or 53 Tim Fugger
47 LB Korey Jones
43 CB Ronnie Yell
26 S Curtis Taylor

Where the roster may still need upgrades: 3rd QB, TE, NT, Edge rusher, S.

I will update this after each pre-season game or with new signings. It should be very interesting to watch. Wow!

Your thoughts?

As we near August I am becoming more optimistic. That does not mean I think we will win the division but we will not be pushovers either. If Palmer comes up big we could have a high ceiling IMHO>