A Very Good Question

[Matt L]

Hey, I love to chat about non-sense that will never happen. Why I love roster building and the draft and FA. All discussion about players who we never seem to draft or sign. lol

My point is more about the vitriol these discussions devolve into. I get that people want better and there is plenty of areas of improvement, but I know I have to remind myself that despite his issues, Kyler is the 3rd best QB I have watched play for AZ. I also have to remind myself that one of my issues with him was his inexperience so I shouldn't be shocked when it rears it's head in year 3.

Who are the top 3?

 

[Stout]

Don't bring KK back as a lame duck. Fire or extend are the only choices IMO.

Yep. I'd much rather fire him than extend KK. If we somehow win out and win the division, hard to see that happening. If we make some playoff noise, it definitely won't.

 

[TheCardFan]

Yep. I'd much rather fire him than extend KK. If we somehow win out and win the division, hard to see that happening. If we make some playoff noise, it definitely won't.

Wow. You and I couldn't be more different with this take. Dude has turned this team around from worst to 11 game winner...improved in nearly every category each year.

What HC would you hire to replace KK?

 

[carrrnuttt]

Wow. You and I couldn't be more different with this take. Dude has turned this team around from worst to 11 game winner...improved in nearly every category each year.

What HC would you hire to replace KK?

Not to mention it would make our rival better. McVay is DYING to hire KK as his OC.

I mean I guess that's subjective to how you feel about KK as a signal caller, but I personally believe that if he's left to focus on just the offensive side of things without the stress of being a HC, he'd torture defenses all over the league.

 

[kerouac9]

The team has a fifth-year option on Kliff’s deal. I’m sure they’ll exercise it and see what happens next year.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

The team has a fifth-year option on Kliff’s deal. I’m sure they’ll exercise it and see what happens next year.

As it sits right now, I'd say you're correct. However, a win or 2 in playoffs will get him a 3 year extension, IMO.

 

[kerouac9]

As it sits right now, I'd say you're correct. However, a win or 2 in playoffs will get him a 3 year extension, IMO.

Yeah probably.

 

[Krangodnzr]

It was a unique move for sure.

But winning records in college for coaches, more often than not, meant jack squat. I think college doesn't correlate to the NFL because of recruiting v. Drafting/free agency.

Yep.

Look at how successful Urban Meyer was in college vs. NFL. Urban Meyers success lies in being able to woo high school kids and their parents, not beating people with great coaching.

The "Kingsbury was a terrible coach in college" debate is ridiculous. It doesn't factor in how important recruiting is in college football. It's literally the backbone of college football, and if a coach isn't good at it, he won't be successful long term.

 

[Stout]

The team has a fifth-year option on Kliff’s deal. I’m sure they’ll exercise it and see what happens next year.

Hard to argue against using this option. Lesser of two evils works for me.

 

[Stout]

Wow. You and I couldn't be more different with this take. Dude has turned this team around from worst to 11 game winner...improved in nearly every category each year.

What HC would you hire to replace KK?

I get you. Won't fault you for your opinion. Not sure who I'd go after. Maybe the Dallas OC? He'd be a good mentor for KM. Haven't given it any thought yet.

 

[DaHilg]

I get you. Won't fault you for your opinion. Not sure who I'd go after. Maybe the Dallas OC? He'd be a good mentor for KM. Haven't given it any thought yet.

I am fan of Kellen Moore for sure.

 

[DVontel]

Yep.

Look at how successful Urban Meyer was in college vs. NFL. Urban Meyers success lies in being able to woo high school kids and their parents, not beating people with great coaching.

The "Kingsbury was a terrible coach in college" debate is ridiculous. It doesn't factor in how important recruiting is in college football. It's literally the backbone of college football, and if a coach isn't good at it, he won't be successful long term.

Matt Rhule is a more recent example, too.

 

[DVontel]

I get you. Won't fault you for your opinion. Not sure who I'd go after. Maybe the Dallas OC? He'd be a good mentor for KM. Haven't given it any thought yet.

I am fan of Kellen Moore for sure.

I would pump the brakes on Moore. Not targeting your two top 20 WRs is against our CB group yesterday for a half is alarming. We would be crushing Kliff for that.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Matt Rhule is a more recent example, too.

Matt Rhule looks like he is in way over his head.

For all of the Kliff hate, he has led the team to a 3+ win improvement every season. Noticeable improvement every season

 

[Krangodnzr]

I would pump the brakes on Moore. Not targeting your two top 20 WRs is against our CB group yesterday for a half is alarming. We would be crushing Kliff for that.

I don't know...Moore doesn't actually throw the ball. Prescott played significantly worse than his stats would make you think.

 

[Lorenzo]

I don't know...Moore doesn't actually throw the ball. Prescott played significantly worse than his stats would make you think.

I do think Moore can be a good coach. I just don’t know if he is ready for a HC job. For me he reminds me a lot of sean Payton with his play calling. I do think he abandons the run often when things get tough. But the Moore/Prescott relationship is interesting. I was never a fan of Moore being his QB coach and OC because Moore was Prescott’s colleague at QB when Prescott came into the league. I think Moore and Prescott both share blame for cowboys offensive struggles, particularly communication at the line of scrimmage was poor yesterday.

 

[DaHilg]

I would pump the brakes on Moore. Not targeting your two top 20 WRs is against our CB group yesterday for a half is alarming. We would be crushing Kliff for that.

I’m not sure if that’s him or Dak…I am not a Dak guy. He has a million and 1 tools on offense to put up stats along with what I feel has been a good OC I’m Kellen Moore. I feel any competent QB with that Oline, RBs, WRs and TEs would have big stats.. Cooper Rush looked darn good against what was at the time was a crazy hot Minnesota pass D (was avg like less than 230 yards and less than a Pass TD a game for a 4 game stretch before Rush gashed them for 325yrd and 2tds.)

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Matt Rhule looks like he is in way over his head.

For all of the Kliff hate, he has led the team to a 3+ win improvement every season. Noticeable improvement every season

K2 still does weird stuff like going for two when he doesn't need to, but you're right, you just can't argue with the win total.

The only box that Kliffy still needs to check is to win some meaningful games late in the year. Did yesterday qualify? I guess it depends on your POV. He coached his @ss of yesterday though, that's for sure.

If this team could win just one playoff game, it would mean so much going forward.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

I am fan of Kellen Moore for sure.

Speaking of Kellen Moore, did anybody else notice how Kingsbury went across the field to shake hands with Kellen Moore and not Mike McCarthy? I don't know if he got to Mike McCarthy after that, but I kind of thought it was funny.

 

[Russ Smith]

Speaking of Kellen Moore, did anybody else notice how Kingsbury went across the field to shake hands with Kellen Moore and not Mike McCarthy? I don't know if he got to Mike McCarthy after that, but I kind of thought it was funny.

McCarthy has to be the luckiest coach in the NFL. Gets to coach the Packers with Rodgers in his prime carrying the team year after year(notice how good they are now with a new coach), then gets hired by Dallas who has about as good of offensive personnel as anybody.

 

[Harry]

What if they win their last two Harry? Go 12-5?

Do we start talking extension for either Kliff of Murray?

Does Vance keep his job with a defense that participated in a 12-5 season?

Winning the last 2 is only a factor if the coaching change is based on record. I recognize many of you will consider that an insane observation. I have already said Kingsbury will coach next year regardless of remaining games. I would extend neither. My preference is to fire Joseph, but they won’t.

Murray is the toughest call. He could become one of the top 3 QBs in the league. I’m concerned he won’t move forward next year. So if they don’t extend him and he moves forward the Cards would pay a big premium if they follow my advice. I hope I’m wrong.

Kingsbury is a puzzle wrapped in an enigma. If he’d agree to an OC and a QB coach I‘d feel better about giving him another year. His decisions, like going for 2, almost cost the Cards a game. He wasted a TO. He’s lost his red zone edge. After 15 games, how does he finally figure out to rollout Murray and to put him under center? He also tried a read option play, though it failed horribly. It takes practice to perfect. Tebow could teach Murray, another crazy thought. Kingsbury even tried a 2-man game a couple of times; both worked. I think Kingsbury reads this board. I’m not sure what to make of this. I’ve never seen so many wrinkles added to a game this late. Was he flexible or just desperate? He drives me to distraction. I’d prefer a coach who’s more predictable. He seems to learn a lesson than forgets what he learns. It’s just too weird.

I though Kingsbury called a bad game in the first half but a great one in the fourth quarter. Is he manic-depressive? It’s just too odd. If he won’t agree to get more personnel, I’d still change, but somewhat reluctantly. The shock of being dropped would likely spur him to change for the better and the Cards would look like they made a major mistake.

As for Joseph, I’m over his loose zones and reluctance to blitz. He‘s had bad luck regarding injuries, but my observation says his philosophy leaves much to be desired. He is also hindered by having a head coach who’s not fluent about defense. In the end too often the offense has had to rescue the defense. The Cards need better balance.

Overall I fully realize that basing change on the record is traditionally the reason for change. Teams use a variation of the Peter Principle to evaluate coaches rather than asking if their skill set will sustain a move to the next level. I think, especially in the case of Kingsbury, his coaching philosophy will cause him to make too many wrong decisions. He’s too closed minded and too slow to change. Too often that change isn’t permanent. He reverts to ego based behaviors. It’s just who he is. The Cards have had to win too many times in spite of coaching.

 

[TheCardFan]

who has about as good of offensive personnel as anybody

Imagine how good Minnesota will be if they get an offensive minded HC. They are loaded.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Winning the last 2 is only a factor if the coaching change is based on record. I recognize many of you will consider that an insane observation. I have already said Kingsbury will coach next year regardless of remaining games. I would extend neither. My preference is to fire Joseph, but they won’t.

Murray is the toughest call. He could become one of the top 3 QBs in the league. I’m concerned he won’t move forward next year. So if they don’t extend him and he moves forward the Cards would pay a big premium if they follow my advice. I hope I’m wrong.

Kingsbury is a puzzle wrapped in an enigma. If he’d agree to an OC and a QB coach I‘d feel better about giving him another year. His decisions, like going for 2, almost cost the Cards a game. He wasted a TO. He’s lost his red zone edge. After 15 games, how does he finally figure out to rollout Murray and to put him under center? He also tried a read option play, though it failed horribly. It takes practice to perfect. Tebow could teach Murray, another crazy thought. Kingsbury even tried a 2-man game a couple of times; both worked. I think Kingsbury reads this board. I’m not sure what to make of this. I’ve never seen so many wrinkles added to a game this late. Was he flexible or just desperate? He drives me to distraction. I’d prefer a coach who’s more predictable. He seems to learn a lesson than forgets what he learns. It’s just too weird.

I though Kingsbury called a bad game in the first half but a great one in the fourth quarter. Is he manic-depressive? It’s just too odd. If he won’t agree to get more personnel, I’d still change, but somewhat reluctantly. The shock of being dropped would likely spur him to change for the better and the Cards would look like they made a major mistake.

As for Joseph, I’m over his loose zones and reluctance to blitz. He‘s had bad luck regarding injuries, but my observation says his philosophy leaves much to be desired. He is also hindered by having a head coach who’s not fluent about defense. In the end too often the offense has had to rescue the defense. The Cards need better balance.

Overall I fully realize that basing change on the record is traditionally the reason for change. Teams use a variation of the Peter Principle to evaluate coaches rather than asking if their skill set will sustain a move to the next level. I think, especially in the case of Kingsbury, his coaching philosophy will cause him to make too many wrong decisions. He’s too closed minded and too slow to change. Too often that change isn’t permanent. He reverts to ego based behaviors. It’s just who he is. The Cards have had to win too many times in spite of coaching.

All this and the team is 11-5.

I'm not meaning to challenge you in particular. I really enjoy the insight you bring. But you seem pretty negative on the HC, DC, and the QB.

Not to bring the injury excuse, but with all the injuries and inconsistency, the Cardinals have been pretty damn good. In my life experience, organizations go as well as their leadership goes.

Kingsbury doesn't often win the big moments in games. I think that's obvious. But I think he often wins a lot of the small moments, which is why he has a winning record as the Cardinals HC.

The game was a three point win in which the Cowboys rallied to come back, but there are a handful of plays that the Cardinals didn't make that would have turned this game into a 14 point win.

Murray was better than Prescott. Kingsbury was better than McCarthy. I would trade neither straight up.

 

[Harry]

All this and the team is 11-5.

I'm not meaning to challenge you in particular. I really enjoy the insight you bring. But you seem pretty negative on the HC, DC, and the QB.

Not to bring the injury excuse, but with all the injuries and inconsistency, the Cardinals have been pretty damn good. In my life experience, organizations go as well as their leadership goes.

Kingsbury doesn't often win the big moments in games. I think that's obvious. But I think he often wins a lot of the small moments, which is why he has a winning record as the Cardinals HC.

The game was a three point win in which the Cowboys rallied to come back, but there are a handful of plays that the Cardinals didn't make that would have turned this game into a 14 point win.

Murray was better than Prescott. Kingsbury was better than McCarthy. I would trade neither straight up.

I’d agree to the last sentence.

 

[Russ Smith]

All this and the team is 11-5.

I'm not meaning to challenge you in particular. I really enjoy the insight you bring. But you seem pretty negative on the HC, DC, and the QB.

Not to bring the injury excuse, but with all the injuries and inconsistency, the Cardinals have been pretty damn good. In my life experience, organizations go as well as their leadership goes.

Kingsbury doesn't often win the big moments in games. I think that's obvious. But I think he often wins a lot of the small moments, which is why he has a winning record as the Cardinals HC.

The game was a three point win in which the Cowboys rallied to come back, but there are a handful of plays that the Cardinals didn't make that would have turned this game into a 14 point win.

Murray was better than Prescott. Kingsbury was better than McCarthy. I would trade neither straight up.

McCarthy is just not very good. We have no idea how good the Packers current coach is because but LaFleur took a 6-9-1 team that had Rodgers the full season, and went 13-3, 13-3 and 13-3 this year with one game left. 39 wins in 3 seasons with a team that had back to back losing seasons under McCarthy, one the year Rodgers got hurt and missed a bunch of games.

McCarthy inherited the best OL, great group of WR's plus added Lamb, 2 good RB's. They are good, but not because of him.