Alan Williams

[hcsilla]

Nobody takes the 1 year qualifying offer. The sign and trade was just semantics.

You don't know anything, you don't remember anything, you just keep running your mouth.

Some things never change.

 

[hsandhu]

What do people estimate Williams and len would get as an offer?

I'm not sure len is going to hit mozgoz/mahimni range, what teams need a center that bad? I haven't gone through the list, number 1 team I was thinking was Dallas but they have noel now.

Anything more than 12 million per, I get nervous about. My higher priorities would be Williams and extending tj.

 

[pokerface]

Letting Len move would be stupid. Letting Robin Lopez go was not a good move and Robin Lopez was much worse than Len.

Stupid?? Based on what... Because he's 23 and you "think" he's going to get better? He's a fouling, fumble fingered, poor shooting dinosaur center that "occasionally" resembles a basketball player.

Yeah by all means lock him up!

 

[JCSunsfan]

What do people estimate Williams and len would get as an offer?

I'm not sure len is going to hit mozgoz/mahimni range, what teams need a center that bad? I haven't gone through the list, number 1 team I was thinking was Dallas but they have noel now.

Anything more than 12 million per, I get nervous about. My higher priorities would be Williams and extending tj.

I was thinking Dallas and Portland, but Dallas got Noel and Portland got Nurkic.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Stupid?? Based on what... Because he's 23 and you "think" he's going to get better? He's a fouling, fumble fingered, poor shooting dinosaur center that "occasionally" resembles a basketball player.

Yeah by all means lock him up!

I, as well, think it would be foolish to just let Len walk. Unless. . .

1. He gets a totally silly offer.
2. They can replace him with a better prospect. I don't care if its a free agent or a trade. Replacing one FA with another FA you like better is basically a trade.

Len is a better defender than most will admit. He changes play on the court just with his presence. He also can be a decent rebounder. Certainly Chandler and Sauce are better, but they are both exceptional rebounders. Len is our best rim protector.

I still think there is a chance he will just "click." But they do need to be looking at back up plans. Chandler is not an acceptable back up plan.

 

[pokerface]

I, as well, think it would be foolish to just let Len walk. Unless. . .

1. He gets a totally silly offer.
2. They can replace him with a better prospect. I don't care if its a free agent or a trade. Replacing one FA with another FA you like better is basically a trade.

Len is a better defender than most will admit. He changes play on the court just with his presence. He also can be a decent rebounder. Certainly Chandler and Sauce are better, but they are both exceptional rebounders. Len is our best rim protector.

I still think there is a chance he will just "click." But they do need to be looking at back up plans. Chandler is not an acceptable back up plan.

Well I can accept that argument and even agree with it. I'm not accepting slins argument that it's almost a no brainier to lock Len up. Yeah Len has some plusses as you described but none of them have me sold on him. His consistency needs to go way up and some things he's lacking I dont believe can be taught. He either has it or he don't. Hard to teach a better basketball IQ...Or better timing...Or better hands. Something might click as you say...Or maybe not.

 

[StreetTruckinTitan]

I, as well, think it would be foolish to just let Len walk. Unless. . .

1. He gets a totally silly offer.
2. They can replace him with a better prospect. I don't care if its a free agent or a trade. Replacing one FA with another FA you like better is basically a trade.

Len is a better defender than most will admit. He changes play on the court just with his presence. He also can be a decent rebounder. Certainly Chandler and Sauce are better, but they are both exceptional rebounders. Len is our best rim protector.

I still think there is a chance he will just "click." But they do need to be looking at back up plans. Chandler is not an acceptable back up plan.

He's only a decent rim protector when he is in position to do so. Unfortunately that is few and far between. The eye test is very poor with this one.

 

[SirStefan32]

I, as well, think it would be foolish to just let Len walk. Unless. . .

1. He gets a totally silly offer.
2. They can replace him with a better prospect. I don't care if its a free agent or a trade. Replacing one FA with another FA you like better is basically a trade.

Len is a better defender than most will admit. He changes play on the court just with his presence. He also can be a decent rebounder. Certainly Chandler and Sauce are better, but they are both exceptional rebounders. Len is our best rim protector.

I still think there is a chance he will just "click." But they do need to be looking at back up plans. Chandler is not an acceptable back up plan.

I am with you. Len is much better defensively than he gets credit for. He affects shots in way Williams and Chandler don't. Unless he gets an outrageous offer, I'd match it.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I am with you. Len is much better defensively than he gets credit for. He affects shots in way Williams and Chandler don't. Unless he gets an outrageous offer, I'd match it.

I've been saying the same thing for awhile now but he still has very serious flaws on D. He still falls for even an average jump fake and there seems to be no end to his fouling problems. If you can't keep him on the court, you can't start him. And as a backup he's been a huge disappointment IMO.

Sign him to a long term, serious money, contract. Start him from opening day and never even consider putting someone else in as a starter when he has a bad game or two. OR. Get rid of him. But the way we've handled his situation the past two seasons isn't working IMO.

 

[Mainstreet]

I'm not ready to sign Len to a long term serious money contract. Basketball doesn't come natural for Len, however, after four seasons I hoped for more progress. I now wonder if he will ever become more than a role playing center. If the Suns can sign Len to a reasonable contract I keep him. Otherwise I let him walk.
Watching Ivica Zubac the other night made be realize he is light years ahead of Len in understanding the game and he is only 19. Len will turn 24 in June.

 

[SirStefan32]

I've been saying the same thing for awhile now but he still has very serious flaws on D. He still falls for even an average jump fake and there seems to be no end to his fouling problems. If you can't keep him on the court, you can't start him. And as a backup he's been a huge disappointment IMO.

Sign him to a long term, serious money, contract. Start him from opening day and never even consider putting someone else in as a starter when he has a bad game or two. OR. Get rid of him. But the way we've handled his situation the past two seasons isn't working IMO.

Oh no doubt! He does a lot of stupid stuff on defense. I hate it when he falls for fakes. Dude, the guy is 15 feet away from the basket, you are over seven feet tall and have long arms. Get your arms up, and make the guy shoot over you. You don't have to jump every time. It drives me crazy. Likewise, on offense, he drives me crazy when he tries to be a finesse player. Dude, you are the biggest, the baddest ***** on the court. Act like it. Grab that ball, go up, dunk it.

I have serious reservations about Len. I do agree with you though- if you sign him/ bring him back, he needs to start, and stay on the court for as long as he can. Let him play through his mistakes, and let him learn.

 

[Errntknght]

I'm kind of with you guys but I think we have to trade Chandler if we commit to Len. We should have done it this year and it may be too late now. If we go with Chandler and Williams I'm not unhappy about it, as we'll have time to find another C before Tyson retires - and its possible we have one already in Bender. We can play Bender and Williams together as needed, too.

 

[Yuma]

I think the decision has mostly been made, Len will be allowed to walk. Williams is an easy call IMO so it comes down to Chandler or Alex. The front office has stated that we offered Chandler the choice of a trade or sitting for the remainder of the season and he chose to stay and sit. It makes no sense that we'd do that if we were just going to trade him over the summer.

Make millions of dollars, get to sit courtside at NBA games, and get to work out to stay in shape with one of the best training staffs in sports? How could Chandler NOT pass that up? I would take that gig in a heart beat!

 

[AzStevenCal]

Make millions of dollars, get to sit courtside at NBA games, and get to work out to stay in shape with one of the best training staffs in sports? How could Chandler NOT pass that up? I would take that gig in a heart beat!

Not many professional basketball players would choose not playing over playing IMO. But even if this were the case, it still doesn't explain why we'd do it. Why in the world would we keep him on the bench, reducing his value, if we'd decided to trade him no matter what in the offseason?

 

[Yuma]

Not many professional basketball players would choose not playing over playing IMO. But even if this were the case, it still doesn't explain why we'd do it. Why in the world would we keep him on the bench, reducing his value, if we'd decided to trade him no matter what in the offseason?

I was joking about that. I think we are keeping him if they are not playing him. It may be as everyone in the media keeps saying, that they are going to let Len walk.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I was joking about that. I think we are keeping him if they are not playing him. It may be as everyone in the media keeps saying, that they are going to let Len walk.

I find it surprising but that's certainly the way it looks to me. I'd have much rather we traded Chandler in February.

 

[Yuma]

I am torn on the issue. We have had Len long enough to know his play. However, he is still young and "could" improve. Chandler is not going to play another 10 years like Len could, although he arguably is playing very well now. There is no long term with Chandler. I have noticed that Chriss has been playing a few minutes here and there at Center. So they seem comfortable letting him play some minutes there. Maybe that is the Suns strategy that Chriss will play some center in the future.

 

[Hoop Head]

Chandler sitting makes some sense. He can get 100% for next season and if the team shows improvement he can say he wants to stay in the offseason and make a run for the playoffs. Sitting him isn't nearly as much of a question as it for Knight. Knight is 24 years old, is having the worst season of his career by far, and doesn't fit with this team. Agreeing to sit at that age surely raises some question marks about his desire to compete and win.

 

[pokerface]

I'm not ready to sign Len to a long term serious money contract. Basketball doesn't come natural for Len, however, after four seasons I hoped for more progress. I now wonder if he will ever become more than a role playing center. If the Suns can sign Len to a reasonable contract I keep him. Otherwise I let him walk.
Watching Ivica Zubac the other night made be realize he is light years ahead of Len in understanding the game and he is only 19. Len will turn 24 in June.

Yeah that's a good point. When you see someone much younger (Zubac) looking like a natural baller and then you look at Len it seems like night and day. For me it makes me not want to waste anymore time on him. As a matter of fact I'm hoping some team offers him stupid money to take the thought completely out of it.

 

[pokerface]

Sitting him isn't nearly as much of a question as it for Knight. Knight is 24 years old, is having the worst season of his career by far, and doesn't fit with this team. Agreeing to sit at that age surely raises some question marks about his desire to compete and win.

I really wonder wtf is going on behind the scenes with Knight and the Suns management. It's almost eerie...The silence is deafening on the whole Knight saga.

 

[slinslin]

Letting Len go just makes no sense, you don't draft a young 7 footer at #4 and then in RFA let him go before his development is finished. If you do that you should not draft such a player to begin with.

The Suns will be in the same situation with Bender in 3 years as there is almost no way in my opinion that Bender will live up to his draft position before his rookie contract is up either.

Also as I pointed out before Alan Williams is older and Alan Williams big games came against teams with terrible defensive bigs. He struggles when he is matched up against decent defenders who are bigger and more athletic than him. He thrives when he can bully his way to the rim against soft defenders.

 

[Mainstreet]

Yeah that's a good point. When you see someone much younger (Zubac) looking like a natural baller and then you look at Len it seems like night and day. For me it makes me not want to waste anymore time on him. As a matter of fact I'm hoping some team offers him stupid money to take the thought completely out of it.

I don't mind the Suns keeping Len but I do not think he should be payed starter money. What that money might look like, I'm not sure. I'm hoping he can be signed for somewhere between 10-12 million a season. I keep him at this price range.

If the Suns think he can improve. Maybe 5 years, 60 million with the 5th year a team option? This would be 14 million a season for basically 4 years. This would be close to Tyson Chandler type money. I think beyond 14 million a season, the Suns let him go.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Letting Len go just makes no sense, you don't draft a young 7 footer at #4 and then in RFA let him go before his development is finished. If you do that you should not draft such a player to begin with.

The Suns will be in the same situation with Bender in 3 years as there is almost no way in my opinion that Bender will live up to his draft position before his rookie contract is up either.

Also as I pointed out before Alan Williams is older and Alan Williams big games came against teams with terrible defensive bigs. He struggles when he is matched up against decent defenders who are bigger and more athletic than him. He thrives when he can bully his way to the rim against soft defenders.

I get this. I really do. I have been in this camp. But if they are convinced, finally, that Len is just never going to get it, then it would be time to move on. You do not want to double down on a mistake, committing money and playing time to a player who just doesn't have it.

I am not sure they are there with Len yet, but it might be getting close. His D is decent in spurts. He shows some offensive flashes, but he cannot seem to stay out of foul trouble, he has boards for hands, and he is so horribly inconsistent it is maddening.

I would keep Len, because he is young, though I don't want to tie up big, big bucks with him. I think it would be better to keep Len than Chandler. But they have to be looking for a young alternative to Len to develop (defensive oriented c who can block shots and hold down the low block, and is efficient offensively). Alan Williams is great and all, but I am not sure he is a starting NBA center.

 

[StreetTruckinTitan]

Letting Len go just makes no sense, you don't draft a young 7 footer at #4 and then in RFA let him go before his development is finished. If you do that you should not draft such a player to begin with.

The Suns will be in the same situation with Bender in 3 years as there is almost no way in my opinion that Bender will live up to his draft position before his rookie contract is up either.

Also as I pointed out before Alan Williams is older and Alan Williams big games came against teams with terrible defensive bigs. He struggles when he is matched up against decent defenders who are bigger and more athletic than him. He thrives when he can bully his way to the rim against soft defenders.

Alex was drafted 5th. Williams does struggle against bigger players but Len does also being 6" taller. I'll go with the higher IQ and motor. Williams will only get better with more minutes.

 

[Mainstreet]

Letting Len go just makes no sense, you don't draft a young 7 footer at #4 and then in RFA let him go before his development is finished. If you do that you should not draft such a player to begin with.

I don't think you keep a player because of draft position. I'd like to keep Len but I think the safe approach is to view him as a backup center with some upside.

The Suns will be in the same situation with Bender in 3 years as there is almost no way in my opinion that Bender will live up to his draft position before his rookie contract is up either.

Again, I do not look at a player because of draft position. Once in the NBA, it's if he can play.
Bender entered the NBA at age 18, has skills, but his body is not physically developed. I think he can be a player if he can consistently hit the 3 point shot and add some weight/ muscle so he can play inside. I think these are the two things that are holding him back.

Also as I pointed out before Alan Williams is older and Alan Williams big games came against teams with terrible defensive bigs. He struggles when he is matched up against decent defenders who are bigger and more athletic than him. He thrives when he can bully his way to the rim against soft defenders.

I wish Williams could be the third center on the Suns and if he rises beyond that level, I would be ecstatic.