Alan Williams

[Hoop Head]

I don't think he'll get offered more than Len because teams have to be aware that he's picking up the majority of his double doubles now when the Suns have gone full blown tank and have sat Chandler, Bledsoe, and Knight for the remainder of the year. It's impressive but has anyone who has put up good numbers for Philly in the last 3-4 years been given a big contract or produced elsewhere?

Although GM's in the NBA are known to overpay players based on limited sample sizes. If he's offered more than Len, provided they're fairly reasonable offers, which do you retain?
I think Len will be overpaid, big time, by someone. Part of that is based on how Jusuf Nurkic is playing in Portland since being moved by Denver. Not that the Center position in Denver was the same as Phoenix but they had 2 legit starting caliber Centers there and they made their choice, once Nurkic got more time and a steady starting gig he's shown that maybe Denver should have given him more time. They definitely didn't get full value in return based on the player he's been since he's left.

 

[sunsfan88]

I remember shortly after last draft, the coach and the GM were talking about Chriss eventually playing some center also in the future.

Considering how much foul trouble he gets in at PF, I can't imagine what it would be like at center.

 

[sunsfan88]

I wonder if we are going to be surprised at what offers he might get this summer. He might get better offers than Len.

Nah height still matters. Look at IT and how he got low balled when he was a FA despite him putting up Kyrie Irving type numbers in Sacramento.

Alan Williams is a 6'8 center. That will limit his $$$ offers despite his production. Len will get offered more because teams will think he has some untapped potential that there is left to unlock.

 

[pokerface]

I think Len will be overpaid, big time, by someone. Part of that is based on how Jusuf Nurkic is playing in Portland since being moved by Denver. Not that the Center position in Denver was the same as Phoenix but they had 2 legit starting caliber Centers there and they made their choice, once Nurkic got more time and a steady starting gig he's shown that maybe Denver should have given him more time. They definitely didn't get full value in return based on the player he's been since he's left.

Some desperate team always comes along and overpays to rip off a another teams player. We know this....We know Len will get a stupid offer we can't match.

 

[leclerc]

Can't or won't.

 

[Yuma]

Nah height still matters. Look at IT and how he got low balled when he was a FA despite him putting up Kyrie Irving type numbers in Sacramento.

Alan Williams is a 6'8 center. That will limit his $$$ offers despite his production. Len will get offered more because teams will think he has some untapped potential that there is left to unlock.

Wes Unseld was supposedly 6' 7" and I think that was generous. He was built like Charles Barkley and used his bulk to out rebound and make other centers play further out from the basket than normal. He actually won the MVP award one year. One of the best big man outlet passers, if not the best, in NBA history. I once saw in a game, Unseld came down with a rebound with two hands above his head, turn and pass with two hands from over his head, almost the full length of the floor down court to one of his guards, and on almost a straight line he hit the rim of the other side of the court! He was that strong that his passes were like bullets down on the other side of the court. From the overhead two hand pass location, he used just a flicking motion and that ball would blaze down the court! I think you can play center at less than 7 foot, Bill Russell was 6' 9", if you know how to use your strength or bulk for positioning on the court.

 

[Yuma]

Can't or won't.

Can't. You have Devin Booker, who will probably end up close to max if not a max deal. Then you know further down the line Chriss may command a max deal. You cannot pay the center position a ton of money when you know you have potentially two max contracts coming up.

 

[slinslin]

Can't. You have Devin Booker, who will probably end up close to max if not a max deal. Then you know further down the line Chriss may command a max deal. You cannot pay the center position a ton of money when you know you have potentially two max contracts coming up.

We are under the salary floor.

we can easily max Len if we wanted. Booker won't even be eligible for a big "max" contract for the next 6 years or so and Chriss even longer.

 

[devilalum]

I always have a hard time evaluating players that put up good numbers on a bad team. Its too easy to think they are quality assets when the aren't.

 

[Errntknght]

I won't be shocked if Len asks the Suns not to match it when he gets an offer. If its what we consider a outrageous over pay he won't have to ask of course... I won't be shocked if he proceeds to prove he's worth it. IOW I think he'll do better with a change of scenery.

 

[Yuma]

We are under the salary floor.

we can easily max Len if we wanted. Booker won't even be eligible for a big "max" contract for the next 6 years or so and Chriss even longer.

Didn't know that. Thanks!

 

[Mainstreet]

I don't think he'll get offered more than Len because teams have to be aware that he's picking up the majority of his double doubles now when the Suns have gone full blown tank and have sat Chandler, Bledsoe, and Knight for the remainder of the year. It's impressive but has anyone who has put up good numbers for Philly in the last 3-4 years been given a big contract or produced elsewhere?

Although GM's in the NBA are known to overpay players based on limited sample sizes. If he's offered more than Len, provided they're fairly reasonable offers, which do you retain?
I think Len will be overpaid, big time, by someone. Part of that is based on how Jusuf Nurkic is playing in Portland since being moved by Denver. Not that the Center position in Denver was the same as Phoenix but they had 2 legit starting caliber Centers there and they made their choice, once Nurkic got more time and a steady starting gig he's shown that maybe Denver should have given him more time. They definitely didn't get full value in return based on the player he's been since he's left.

Good points. It's interesting to note Denver even gave Portland a first round draft pick in the Nurkic trade and only received a journeyman player in return in Mason Plumlee. IMO, the Nuggets treated this trade as a fire sale. I'm puzzled by this.

If the Suns were not in tank mode they should have looked to trade for Nurkic. I think he already looked better than Len even before he was traded.

 

[Errntknght]

Good points. It's interesting to note Denver even gave Portland a first round draft pick in the Nurkic trade and only received a journeyman player in return in Mason Plumlee. IMO, the Nuggets treated this trade as a fire sale. I'm puzzled by this.

If the Suns were not in tank mode they should have looked to trade for Nurkic. I think he already looked better than Len even before he was traded.

From what I read, the Nugs wanted Mason, and so far he looks like he is giving them what they wanted - not in the last game against his old team, however. Nurkic was shriveling up in the shadow of Jokic - heck if he didn't turn it around in Denver pretty quickly he'd have been hard to give away. I don't know what we have that Denver would covet... perhaps Chriss though Mason is more of a C and Denver likes to use Jokic at PF. I don't think they had any interest in Len - if they did we should have jumped at the deal, tanking or not.

 

[BC867]

Wes Unseld was supposedly 6' 7" and I think that was generous. He was built like Charles Barkley and used his bulk to out rebound and make other centers play further out from the basket than normal. He actually won the MVP award one year. One of the best big man outlet passers, if not the best, in NBA history. I once saw in a game, Unseld came down with a rebound with two hands above his head, turn and pass with two hands from over his head, almost the full length of the floor down court to one of his guards, and on almost a straight line he hit the rim of the other side of the court! He was that strong that his passes were like bullets down on the other side of the court. From the overhead two hand pass location, he used just a flicking motion and that ball would blaze down the court! I think you can play center at less than 7 foot, Bill Russell was 6' 9", if you know how to use your strength or bulk for positioning on the court.

 

[Mainstreet]

From what I read, the Nugs wanted Mason, and so far he looks like he is giving them what they wanted - not in the last game against his old team, however. Nurkic was shriveling up in the shadow of Jokic - heck if he didn't turn it around in Denver pretty quickly he'd have been hard to give away. I don't know what we have that Denver would covet... perhaps Chriss though Mason is more of a C and Denver likes to use Jokic at PF. I don't think they had any interest in Len - if they did we should have jumped at the deal, tanking or not.

I don't know what the Suns would have traded for him, but the point is, they should have looked to trade for him unless they were intent on staying in tank mode. It now is clear the Suns wanted to remain in tank mode. IMO, Nurkic is better than Len, even when he was in Denver.

Anyway, that trade is done. I can't believe the Nuggets threw in a first round draft pick and rushed to trade him so quickly unless there is something more to the story. They could have traded Nurkic this summer for more.

Thinking about it more, the Suns (and other teams) would have pursued Nurkic more fervently this summer.

 

[BC867]

Wes Unseld was supposedly 6' 7" and I think that was generous. He was built like Charles Barkley and used his bulk to out rebound and make other centers play further out from the basket than normal. He actually won the MVP award one year. One of the best big man outlet passers, if not the best, in NBA history. I once saw in a game, Unseld came down with a rebound with two hands above his head, turn and pass with two hands from over his head, almost the full length of the floor down court to one of his guards, and on almost a straight line he hit the rim of the other side of the court! He was that strong that his passes were like bullets down on the other side of the court. From the overhead two hand pass location, he used just a flicking motion and that ball would blaze down the court! I think you can play center at less than 7 foot, Bill Russell was 6' 9", if you know how to use your strength or bulk for positioning on the court.

Back then, the typical Center was 6'10", so 6'9" wasn't that much shorter. (Wilt was an exception.) And citing Russ wasn't the best example because he was one-of-a-kind, so much better than average. With super basketball intelligence.

Y'know who else was 6'9"? Wes Unseld's partner at Power Forward, the Big E, Elvin Hayes. Unseld's bulk and Hayes' height. Between the two of them, they literally covered the two post positions.

I like Williams and hope he can play a role for the Suns. But if plays alongside a skinny Power Forward, it will put a lot of pressure on him. Although, at 260 pounds, he'd be a lot like the Chuckster -- the Round Mound of Rebound. But then Barkley did not play Center.

And all this talk about our young Power Forwards taking over Center. They'd need weight and strength that they don't have now. As long as they are not a replica of Alvan Adams at 212 lbs. with the skinniest arms on the court, playing Center from the land of the Shooting Guards.

'Sorry for the blank in Post 139 above. I left it to check some stats and when I came back it was gone.

 

[Mainstreet]

Back then, the typical Center was 6'10", so 6'9" wasn't that much shorter. (Wilt was an exception.) And citing Russ wasn't the best example because he was one-of-a-kind, so much better than average. With super basketball intelligence.

Y'know who else was 6'9"? Wes Unseld's partner at Power Forward, the Big E, Elvin Hayes. Unseld's bulk and Hayes' height. Between the two of them, they literally covered the two post positions.

I like Williams and hope he can play a role for the Suns. But if plays alongside a skinny Power Forward, it will put a lot of pressure on him. Although, at 260 pounds, he'd be a lot like the Chuckster -- the Round Mound of Rebound. But then Barkley did not play Center.

And all this talk about our young Power Forwards taking over Center. They'd need weight and strength that they don't have now. As long as they are not a replica of Alvan Adams at 212 lbs. with the skinniest arms on the court, playing Center from the land of the Shooting Guards.

'Sorry for the blank in Post 139 above. I left it to check some stats and when I came back it was gone.

I like Alan Williams but he is undersized and a bit slow for me to believe that he can be a consistent starter on a regular basis. However, he is definitely a player a team wants on their roster.

 

[Yuma]

When Marquis Chriss bulks up, put him next to Williams, and bodies will be flying in the paint!

 

[sunsfan88]

Why is Len getting a max even part of the discussion?

If McDonough gives Len a max deal, I will personally fly out to Phoenix and slap the hell out of him.

 

[Ronin]

Gerald Bourguet‏ @GeraldBourguet
Alan Williams wins the 2017 Majerle Hustle Award.

 

[Mainstreet]

Gerald Bourguet‏ @GeraldBourguet
Alan Williams wins the 2017 Majerle Hustle Award.

Good for Alan Williams.

 

[Mainstreet]

Why is Len getting a max even part of the discussion?

If McDonough gives Len a max deal, I will personally fly out to Phoenix and slap the hell out of him.

I didn't know giving Len the max was even part of the discussion.