Amare to opt out if suns dont give MAX

[jandaman]

^ Slin
thats a ridiculous point you're trying to make regarding Nash.

When Nash won his MVPs, he was regarded as a terrible defender. Nothing new.
You cannot use that argument all of a sudden to put him down last season...

Fact is.... Nash is back to his 17 point 11 assists 90/50/40 self when the system is run through him....

Will he slow down? of course he will, thats why Dragic will get his minutes increased next season to give Nash extra fuel later in the season.

Is Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Rondon better than him?... In some aspects.. yes no doubt..... younger?... definitely..... but overall impact to their teams?..... Nash is arguably No.1 in comparison to those 3.... Chris Paul has an argument... Deron got beat even quicker by the Lakers.... and Rondo is pretty much a smaller version of Kidd.... Offensively Nash is better than him.... and Celtics success is brought by having 3 wise veteran all-stars around him.

 

[devilfan02]

I wouldn't even consider him at the max. A max player has to excel in more than one area of the game. Amare is a good scorer and below average in every other category

 

[Cheesebeef]

^ Slin
thats a ridiculous point you're trying to make regarding Nash.

When Nash won his MVPs, he was regarded as a terrible defender. Nothing new.
You cannot use that argument all of a sudden to put him down last season...

gotta agree with the above.

Is Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Rondon better than him?... In some aspects.. yes no doubt..... younger?... definitely..... but overall impact to their teams?..... Nash is arguably No.1 in comparison to those 3.... Chris Paul has an argument... Deron got beat even quicker by the Lakers.... and Rondo is pretty much a smaller version of Kidd.... Offensively Nash is better than him.... and Celtics success is brought by having 3 wise veteran all-stars around him.

gotta disagree with the above. If you put Chris Paul on this team, we'd win titles IMO. He'd be able to torch Fisher in a way that Nash couldn't and combine his dribble penetration, ability to finish with Amare and they'd have no answer for us on offense.

Deron got beat quicker, but he played with a complete MASH unit missing it's C and it's SF for the majority of that series. And this doesn't even make mention of the fact that the rest of the players on that team are just scrubs. I think there was mention of the Jazz having the most 2nd rounders/UFA playing in the playoffs. Dude had nothing to work with except a PF that's just as soft as Amare.

As to Nash being better than Rondo... I think they're probably about equal in the impact they bring to the game. And don't kid yourself, Rondo's been the engine that got that team to the Finals this year, carrying a Big 3 that's been incredibly inconsistent.

 

[joshstmarie]

no. but it's a fact that the conference was weaker back then which our team took advantage of. It's much tougher now and I don't think the team's past performance woudl be indicative of much against completely revamped/improved competition.

And we are a much better/deeper team than we were back then. I think its easy to say that this team more than any steve nash team in the past is in the best possible situation to move on without or replace amare.

you keep saying "everytime" but it happened once and I (and many others) have given our reasons why that one time might not be indicative of how it will play out in the future, ESPECIALLY in light of Nash's increased age and the propensity for his injuries which dogged him on and off all year, something that comes with age.

I guess my "everytime" = 114 regular seson games amare has missed in the nash era but the whole shaq/eye fiasco is a different monster. So I wil concede that part. And while I cant disagree with your assessment of his up and down play now and in the futre due to injuries, I cant help but look at the bottom line again and say. "Well, we DID make the WCF and his numbers havent dropped off even the slightest"

you're living in the past. And while Nash may keep us "competitive", that's just not good enough for me. I don't want to be a one and done playoff team. I don't want to be the Jazz post 1999 when they clung to an aging Stockton and Malone forever and only got better once they bottom'ed out, got struck gold in the lottery and freed up cap space to make them relevant again.

I really dont believe I am living in the past and I think nash at this point in his career is better than stockton was at the same time. I dont believe nash's ABILITIES are declining and I dont feel goran is ready to take the team over yet.

I think with a resigned frye, a little flip of the switch with EC and an Amare/Lee/Boozer/Dirk/Bass we are right back in the thick of things.

 

[Chaplin]

Nash may be losing a step or two, but honestly, we're not going to get Rondo, Paul or Deron, so prognosticating that is a waste of time. I don't know why this always has to be said, but it does.

Look, we've been really slamming Amare over the past few weeks, and as we have done frequently in the past, we have moved on to another player, in this case, Nash. He has his faults that even he would acknowledge, but we have far worse things wrong with the team than our PG position. We're not getting a superstar young stud PG magically over the summer, and I don't think moving forward with Steve Nash and Goran Dragic (and Grant Hill) in our PG position isn't a position of weakness. IMO.

 

[jandaman]

As Chaplin stated.

No chance to get another elite PG to replace Nash.

Nash atleast is still All-Star calibre, is a tremendous leader and great for the franchise and his team mates.

With Nash, the Suns is a playoff team contender and a small chance to contend WCF.


Without Nash, it is unknown if playoffs is within reach.... contendership is unknown also.


Its back to the time when Suns just got Nash signed up.... NO ONE in the league expected the Suns to win 62 games that first season.

Who out of ALL FA outside of Wade and LeBron can give that HUGE positive change for the Suns...
NO ONE.


So best path way is to keep Nash until he retires.
Get Stoudemire out.... replace him with YOUNGER players.

The team remains a playoff bound team and a small chance to contend whilst having YOUNG players to develop.

 

[cly2tw]

Nash hasn't been the best PG in the game at all this season even in the first half of the season or so.

Defense is part of the game as well and those who apply that to Amare need to apply it to Nash as well.

I'd easily take Chris Paul, Deron Williams and Rajon Rondo over Nash right now and obviously for the future.

Nash wasn't very good against the Lakers in my opinion. We needed him to light up Fisher but he struggled most of the time. The same Fisher who was a liability against Westbrook.

He played like his under DA time for 6 weeks, when Amare was recovering and when Frye played like Tim Thomas the sequel. That was his demise for the season as he got rapid worn out and kept injuries all season long. The constant dribbling in circle did him in, and the team for a long stretch until we heard the coach's statement as in my sig. From the ASB, we started to play more off Amare and JRich, as well as more Dragic, while limiting Nash's dribble. We saw what happened.

As to playoffs, the resistence from every opponent is a lot stronger than regular season. So, what we worked on for 2 month was not smooth enoug yet. It's a testament of the talent and resourcefulness of the team that they went so far. Nash overdribbled slightly in one game in easch series, Spurs and Blazers were not strong enough and our alternative offense were good enough. Against Lakers, nothing of our game plans were good and consistent enough, to make up for errors in an error-and-trial process of constantly reinventing ourselves in the post season. With some stability and more battle experience under hardship, Nash should get better used and even enjoy the Stockton-style of PG play without succumbing to the rush of overdribble, and Amare resisting the bad instinct of forcing issues 1-on-3 as he did in game 6. Find a proper middle way. We will be closer to a title the next two years. And Nash would be able to play at Stockton level as long as Stockton.

 

[pokerface]

It is wild speculation. This is not the old micro-fracture surgery. Supposedly, Amare, Kidd and couple others had a new version of the surgery. KTAR interviewed Amare's surgeon who said that they have no idea how long it will last and there was no timetable. He also said it is possible it could last the duration of his career.

Amare, Kidd and others have shown no sign of deterioration in the surgically repaired knees.

So agreed he eventually will need another surgery but saying it will be in the next few years is pure speculation.

Maybe so maybe no...who can say. But uhh...I think its a reasonable assumption he's not going to finish out his next long term deal without having micro again...but then again we're heading into uncharted territory arn't we? I suppose the Suns or SOME team will be willing to gamble and roll the dice...I hope for us it doesn't come up another PENNY again.

 

[Mainstreet]

I don't know if Amare will get the maximum from the Suns, however, there are some interesting comments from a Paul Coro article dated June 10th, 2010 regarding Amare.

Even if he gets to free agency, Stoudemire said he would give the Suns a chance to counter any offer he would receive.

"My loyalty is here with the Phoenix Suns," he said. "Once free agency starts and teams are offering me X amount of dollars, then I would definitely say, 'You know what, Phoenix? These guys are offering this much. So if you guys want to step up to the plate, we can hit a home run.' If not, then I could settle for an inside-the-park home run. Just as long as I make it home."

Stoudemire said Walters told him the Suns would be making an offer that is "pretty intriguing."

"If everything sounds great, I will be a Phoenix Sun for the remainder of my career," he said. "If not, I'll be elsewhere for the second half of my career."

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/sun...610phoenix-suns-amare-stoudemire-options.html

 

[Cheesebeef]

I don't know if Amare will get the maximum from the Suns, however, there are some interesting comments from a Paul Coro article dated June 10th, 2010 regarding Amare.



http://www.azcentral.com/sports/sun...610phoenix-suns-amare-stoudemire-options.html

huh... that is interesting.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Best case scenario, we sign him for between 15-18 per for the next 4 years.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I haven't seen this mentioned yet, but Dudley today on ESPNEWS said that he doubted the Suns would re-sign Amare. He went on to say that Amare was a great teammate and he raved about how well he gets on with all the players. I was surprised at how positive he was regarding Stat as a player and a teammate.

I see a lot of things about his game that worry me but it makes you stop and think when people a lot closer to the situation put a different face on it. It doesn't change what I see but let's face it, Dudley is probably a much better judge of Amare's value than any of us.

Steve

 

[jandaman]

Stoudemire wouldnt be a sun if he had bad character issues. Kerr, Sarver have always wanted good character guys.

However the one thing I notice with Amare is that in the past he threw his coach under the bus (D'Antoni) and he likes to take slightly more credit than he deserves.

 

[Errntknght]

Amare seems to be saying that there is a fourth option - in addition to
1) giving him the max, 2) sign & trade, 3) letting him walk. Let him explore free agency and matching his best offer. Thats not too bad an idea as long as the team doesn't advertise their intent to match - and assuming they won't match if the price is too high.

I don't think anyone will offer him the max... something like 80 mil over 4 years, tops, IMO and I don't have any idea who would do that. Maybe someone who loses out on the top guys. I'd hate paying him that much but its a lot better than 120 for 6.

 

[jagu]

Nash hasn't been the best PG in the game at all this season even in the first half of the season or so.

Defense is part of the game as well and those who apply that to Amare need to apply it to Nash as well.

I'd easily take Chris Paul, Deron Williams and Rajon Rondo over Nash right now and obviously for the future.

Nash wasn't very good against the Lakers in my opinion. We needed him to light up Fisher but he struggled most of the time. The same Fisher who was a liability against Westbrook.

Really? You'd take Paul, Williams, and Rondo over Nash? Isn't that darn obvious? Who wouldn't take a young PG over an aging superstar like Nash. Nash is still as good as those guys though and he was last year. Nash averaged 17 and 10 assists (not to mention the ass whooping he took to his face) in the playoffs this year. Amare had 22.2 and 6.6RPG. Nash did his job. Amare didn't. We all know Nash doesn't play defense. I thought he did okay, and his defense is not what cost us any of the games against the Lakers IMO.

 

[Michael]

I don't know if Amare will get the maximum from the Suns, however, there are some interesting comments from a Paul Coro article dated June 10th, 2010 regarding Amare.



http://www.azcentral.com/sports/sun...610phoenix-suns-amare-stoudemire-options.html

Wow, that sounds like a mercenary. Pure greed. Still like to see him staying in Phoenix, but damn, I hate this attitude. I wonder if you really feel whether you have 8 or 20 Million Dollars a year. I mean, I live pretty well with far less than 50.000. I can't even imagine what you'd do with that sort of money. Yeah, you buy yourself a nice car, a nice home and one for your family, even your closest friends. And than you'd still have some money. And that's just one year's salary.

 

[jagu]

"My loyalty is here with the Phoenix Suns," he said. "Once free agency starts and teams are offering me X amount of dollars, then I would definitely say, 'You know what, Phoenix? These guys are offering this much. So if you guys want to step up to the plate, we can hit a home run.' If not, then I could settle for an inside-the-park home run. Just as long as I make it home."

Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/sports/sun...s-amare-stoudemire-options.html#ixzz0qWn1J5P7


Amare knows more about baseball terminology than about rebounding lol. If his "loyalty" was about Phoenix he'd try harder to stay with them not throw his X amount of dollars crap into the media. Mercenary sounds about right.

 

[taz02]

Wow, that sounds like a mercenary. Pure greed. Still like to see him staying in Phoenix, but damn, I hate this attitude. I wonder if you really feel whether you have 8 or 20 Million Dollars a year. I mean, I live pretty well with far less than 50.000. I can't even imagine what you'd do with that sort of money. Yeah, you buy yourself a nice car, a nice home and one for your family, even your closest friends. And than you'd still have some money. And that's just one year's salary.

Sure you can live pretty well on 50,000 per year but what if you knew your job would only last another 8 years max, your current employer was actively trying to send you to a competitor for a couple of younger cheaper employees. Then lets say one of those competitors came to you and offerd you the exact same job for a 100k.


One thing I've learned is that money is realitive. A 100 mil is a massive amount of money to be sure, but remember he'll see less than half of that and he'll have to live off it his whole life.

If you make 50k a year it could be argued that you could live ok on 30k, but no one goes to work and says hey this company is great. Instead of paying me 50 go ahead and cut that to 30 and i'll gladly move to a smaller house buy a cheaper car and have less fun. It's just not done.

I personally don't see aything wrong with how he's handled this. He appears to have some loyalty to the team. If the suns could replace him for less they'd pitch him to the curb in a minute and have actively tried to do so.

 

[chickenhead]

Nash's worth IMO far exceeds his return in a trade. No one is going to rebuild with him for the same reasons that make us over-emphasize the fact that he's approaching the end of his career. Nash is a top PG and one of the best shooters in the league. We can't replace him adequately in a trade or the FA market right now, so I'm just going to be happy that this guy is still a Sun.

Amare's game is such that his defense and rebounds are totally replaceable--and in a max deal his dollar-per-point or dollar-per-double team becomes astronomical. My opinion is that the team for Amare is one where the player we want him to be is already on the roster. Then he comes in as a pure offensive threat. If we give him the max, in a way we're left with neither.

 

[Mainstreet]

It would be interesting to dissect the bold part of the quote below from azcentral and what the Suns might be offering, if accurate. Could the Suns pay Amare something like the 127 M but pay the amount over more than 6 years or maybe they promise to give him more help on the front line with a lower contract offer. Or maybe the Suns give Amare a short opt out with a new contract. I don't know.

Stoudemire said Walters told him the Suns would be making an offer that is "pretty intriguing."

Maybe some posters can throw out some better ideas.

 

[jibikao]

gotta agree with the above.



gotta disagree with the above. If you put Chris Paul on this team, we'd win titles IMO. He'd be able to torch Fisher in a way that Nash couldn't and combine his dribble penetration, ability to finish with Amare and they'd have no answer for us on offense.

Isn't Chris Paul injured most of the time this season? And I thought our offense was "good enough" and that it's our rebounding that gave Lakers over the edge?

 

[dreamcastrocks]

It would be interesting to dissect the bold part of the quote below from azcentral and what the Suns might be offering, if accurate. Could the Suns pay Amare something like the 127 M but pay the amount over more than 6 years or maybe they promise to give him more help on the front line with a lower contract offer. Or maybe the Suns give Amare a short opt out with a new contract. I don't know.



Maybe some posters can throw out some better ideas.

Pretty sure that is against the rules of the CBA.

 

[Cheesebeef]

not really sure how people are looking at Amare like he's a "mercenary". This is what big time FA do. They try to get the most money they can and look for the best situation for them. I've got no issue with him doing that.

as to how much does someone need? Enough's never enough when you can get more. Amare has the chance to not only set himself up for life, but he's got a chance to set up an entire generation of his family. After coming from nothing, enough can probably never be enough for someone with his background because deep down, the guy's probably petrified of ever having to go back to that or having family members do the same.

he's a good kid. he never gets in trouble. he's come back from some pretty horrendous surgeries/injuries. he's just not as good as he thinks he is. I wouldn't hold that against him.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Isn't Chris Paul injured most of the time this season?

good grief man. someone put out a hypothetical if we had Chris Paul... I was obviously going on the assumption that in the hypothetical, we wouldn't have an injured Chris Paul. Sometimes I truly believe I'm conversing with ******** people here.

And I thought our offense was "good enough" and that it's our rebounding that gave Lakers over the edge?

I didn't. The Lakers CAN be beaten with offense, but we didn't have the offensive weapons to do it. We got down 14-18 points in all four games we lost and it was always because the offense completely broke down for stretches of the game where the Lakers were able to cut off Nash's penetration.

 

[jibikao]

Nash hasn't been the best PG in the game at all this season even in the first half of the season or so.

Defense is part of the game as well and those who apply that to Amare need to apply it to Nash as well.

I'd easily take Chris Paul, Deron Williams and Rajon Rondo over Nash right now and obviously for the future.

Nash wasn't very good against the Lakers in my opinion. We needed him to light up Fisher but he struggled most of the time. The same Fisher who was a liability against Westbrook.

Nash isn't the one asking for super max. 6-year deal so if you want to pick poison between how bad Nash and Amare were against Lakers, I would still keep Nash. Nash couldn't punish Fisher? Nash's shooting % was decent throughout and Nash was never "shoot first" point guard. And why can't Amare punish Laker's "big" in last two games? Oh wait, he needs to get fed by Nash... I forgot about that.

To keep Amare, Suns have almost no money to spend on other things. I think 3-year max contract is acceptable but not 6 freaking years. You are an Amare fan so you probably want to see Amare for a long time.

I am a Nash fan and I want to see him retire in Phoenix as he has said before. Nash isn't asking ridiculous amount of money to CRIPPLE this team. And with Dragic getting better, Nash doesn't have to play that many minutes. Of course Chris Paul and Dereon William are currently better than Nash who is 36-years old but with Amare's 6-year contract, how do you get them? You tell me. I doubt Chris and Deron would play for less. They are still young.