Any news about Okafor?

[Mainstreet]

I'm not sure about Chandler, but the center position is the safest position to upgrade for the Suns. Plumlee and Len would make nice backups for a playoff run.

 

[Catlover]

I like Plumlee, but he is not a domineering Center. Tyson Chandler is. You don't have to wait until every piece is in place to solidify the position. It would also be a perfect situation for Len to develop.

Right now, our Dirk is Dragic from the shooting Point Guard position. With a complementary cast around him. Why wait to move us to the next step? Strength in the post would make it smoother for the rest of the team to move up.

Since leaving Dallas he has averaged roughly 10 points and 10 rebounds per game. He's a pretty good defensive center but a below average offensive center. When you consider that he has missed about 30% of his games since leaving the Mavs his numbers start to look even more alarming. I think you overrate him.

He's a little better than what we have when he's there but I don't see how Plumlee and Len benefit from having their court time reduced. They'll still get to play when Tyson gets one of his boo-boos and has to sit for a week or two but inconsistent minutes might be even worse for their development than no minutes at all. Develop our guys and if we must overpay for someone, make it someone that actually spends game time on the court. We have the chance to have two strong centers on our roster, don't mess it up in search of a meaningless playoff win or two.

 

[SirStefan32]

I like Plumlee, but he is not a domineering Center. Tyson Chandler is. You don't have to wait until every piece is in place to solidify the position. It would also be a perfect situation for Len to develop.

Right now, our Dirk is Dragic from the shooting Point Guard position. With a complementary cast around him. Why wait to move us to the next step? Strength in the post would make it smoother for the rest of the team to move up.

Chandler is almost 32 years old, with a lot of miles on his body (12 NBA seasons), and he is not the healthiest player out there. Chandler's best days are behind him. He is never going to get better than he is right now.

If you want a defensive big man, you go after Noah, who is 29 with only 6 seasons under his belt.

If you are acquiring a player, you go after the one who is not at the twilight of his career, especially if he plays the same position as two of your "high potential" youngsters who need time to develop.

Hell, by your logic, why don't we just see if Jason Kidd wants to stop coaching and sign him as a PG? He was a hell of a defender too.

 

[BC867]

Hell, by your logic, why don't we just see if Jason Kidd wants to stop coaching and sign him as a PG? He was a hell of a defender too.

LOL.

Why do we need to strengthen the Center position now, whether with a Chandler or Noah? It is not about opinion. It is about fact.

The Plum Dawg spends the last six minutes or more of every game on the bench. He is not a finisher. Len is certainly not ready for that. We need a finisher at Center while the rest of the team continues to blend.

What the hell does that have to do with Jason Kidd?

 

[Catlover]

LOL.

Why do we need to strengthen the Center position now, whether with a Chandler or Noah? It is not about opinion. It is about fact.

The Plum Dawg spends the last six minutes or more of every game on the bench. He is not a finisher. Len is certainly not ready for that. We need a finisher at Center while the rest of the team continues to blend.

What the hell does that have to do with Jason Kidd?

It's not just about strengthening the center position now. If Tyson Chandler was walking the streets I'd say sign him up and bring him in. But in addition to possibly slowing Len and Plumlee's development, acquiring him will cost us assets too. We just don't have enough to gain to make the costs bearable.

 

[SirStefan32]

LOL.

Why do we need to strengthen the Center position now, whether with a Chandler or Noah? It is not about opinion. It is about fact.

The Plum Dawg spends the last six minutes or more of every game on the bench. He is not a finisher. Len is certainly not ready for that. We need a finisher at Center while the rest of the team continues to blend.

What the hell does that have to do with Jason Kidd?

Well, I thought we were talking about bringing washed-up has-been that was good when Dallas won their title so they can take playing time away from the players who are our future? If we are going to do such a stupid thing, let's do it twice!

 

[BC867]

It's not just about strengthening the center position now. If Tyson Chandler was walking the streets I'd say sign him up and bring him in. But in addition to possibly slowing Len and Plumlee's development, acquiring him will cost us assets too. We just don't have enough to gain to make the costs bearable.

Is your opinion that we don't need a closer at Center now, no matter who that is?

 

[Gaddabout]

It's not just about strengthening the center position now. If Tyson Chandler was walking the streets I'd say sign him up and bring him in. But in addition to possibly slowing Len and Plumlee's development, acquiring him will cost us assets too. We just don't have enough to gain to make the costs bearable.

A deal along the lines of Okafor's expiring (and insured) contract along with a draft pick) was what I had in mind. Anything more and there's no discussion.

 

[Gaddabout]

Well, I thought we were talking about bringing washed-up has-been that was good when Dallas won their title so they can take playing time away from the players who are our future? If we are going to do such a stupid thing, let's do it twice!

If you think Miles Plumlee is a center forever, then sure, I see your point. I dont' think he is, but whatever. If you think Len is going to develop over the next year then, sure, I see your point. I think he's got the length of his rookie contract before he starts to show his real potential, and he doesn't really have a veteran player his size to push him around him to teach him.

If you think Chandler is washed up because he's played since he was 19, I think that's a fair point. He's got a lot of miles on his legs, and that's never a good sign for a big man. It should be noted, however, that he's right at career averages on an AWFUL team that doesn't pass the ball, and he's still a strong defender in the paint.

But if you don't trade for a big man by the trade deadline, you lose Okafor (who will never play a minute for the Suns) as an asset, and you will need to address rebounding and defense either through the draft or free agency. That's always a harder task, IMO, than simply trading for someone adequate, but I applaud you if you stand pat on that. It's hard to be patient when you have a young team just needing a little bit here and there to really make some noise.

 

[Catlover]

A deal along the lines of Okafor's expiring (and insured) contract along with a draft pick) was what I had in mind. Anything more and there's no discussion.

I would even hope it was a protected pick given the value of Okafor's contract. We can afford to lose a pick to improve our postseason chances and there probably isn't a better option out there than Tyson. He has a reputation for being a good locker room person so hopefully he'd fit right in with these guys. I worry about the trade suggestions that have us splitting up the twins or sending one of our two centers packing or throwing multiple picks away for a short term rental. We're not close enough to the finish line for those kind of deals.

 

[Mainstreet]

A deal along the lines of Okafor's expiring (and insured) contract along with a draft pick) was what I had in mind. Anything more and there's no discussion.

You can make the case, New York would owe the Suns a draft pick. The Suns would be sending Okafor whose contract is 80% insured to New York for the remainder of Chandler's contract this year and next. Also it ties up the Suns financially for future moves. Let New York keep him if they think he is going to be the difference maker there and they want more.

 

[Catlover]

Is your opinion that we don't need a closer at Center now, no matter who that is?

I think Tyson would be an improvement and at the right price I'd make the trade. I just don't think he's a huge improvement.

 

[Suns_fan69]

Have you guys looked at their respective defensive stats?

http://stats.nba.com/playerTracking...rs=GP*GE*20**MIN*GE*20**FGA_DEFEND_RIM*GE*5.0

I wish I could do a table but Plumlee actually has better defensive stats than Chandler right now, including playing 24 extra games. I admit, I haven't seen NY play, but the numbers don't really warrant Chandler over Plum.

 

[Folster]

I think Tyson would be an improvement and at the right price I'd make the trade. I just don't think he's a huge improvement.

The additional year on his contract is a non-starter. Pau Gasol piques my interest if he could be had for just the Okafor contract. I wouldn't want to give the Lakers any picks. If Hornacek and McDonough think Pau is a fit and can contribute then I would be all for it. However, the thought of giving the Lakers some luxury tax relief would make me hesitant.

Kris Humphries is another expiring who's style would certainly fit our roster. Although, I haven't been following him and I'm basing that on his past play in New Jersey. Does he still play like Plumlee?

 

[SirStefan32]

Have you guys looked at their respective defensive stats?

http://stats.nba.com/playerTracking...rs=GP*GE*20**MIN*GE*20**FGA_DEFEND_RIM*GE*5.0

I wish I could do a table but Plumlee actually has better defensive stats than Chandler right now, including playing 24 extra games. I admit, I haven't seen NY play, but the numbers don't really warrant Chandler over Plum.

While I agree that Chandler is not a major upgrade over Plumlee, those stats are a joke. Robin Lopez and Timofey Mozgov have better defensive stats than Dwight Howard. These stats are meaningless and useless.

 

[Suns_fan69]

While I agree that Chandler is not a major upgrade over Plumlee, those stats are a joke. Robin Lopez and Timofey Mozgov have better defensive stats than Dwight Howard. These stats are meaningless and useless.

They may be a joke to you but the SportsVU data here is being used league wide. Of course, nobody is going to make decisions based solely on just numbers. I haven't watched enough to make claims either way but I don't find the numbers completely absurd. Howard isn't the physical specimen he was in his Magic days and the perimeter defense in front of him is terrible at best.

 

[elindholm]

Robin Lopez and Timofey Mozgov have better defensive stats than Dwight Howard.

While I won't make a case for Lopez and know nothing about Mozgov, I've always thought that Howard is vastly overrated as a defender.

 

[JCSunsfan]

This team is just fine except for a superstar. Mess with anything else and it's going backwards. Len might be better than Chandler by next year (Tyson's age and back issues and all)

 

[SirStefan32]

While I won't make a case for Lopez and know nothing about Mozgov, I've always thought that Howard is vastly overrated as a defender.

I don't disagree that Howard is overrated. I am sure I've made that argument myself a few times. Be that as it may, Lopez and Mozgov are stiffs, and are by no means top 10 defenders. Those stats are a joke. Lopez is NOT a better defender than Davis, Noah, Tim Duncan (old as he may be), or even Plumlee.

 

[Suns_fan69]

Hold on now. These numbers don't say that Lopez is a better defender. They only say that opponents shoot a lower percentage at the rim when Lopez is there vs the others. Amongst that list, Lopez has a lower steals rate than all of them, lower block rate than all of them and has the highest attempts against him.

 

[PhxGametime]

I'd likely be interested in Tyson Chandler, though I've only seen him once this year... Pau Gasol doesn't excite me, at all.

 

[BC867]

This team is just fine except for a superstar. Mess with anything else and it's going backwards. Len might be better than Chandler by next year (Tyson's age and back issues and all)

My recent point is that the Suns starting Center is not their closing Center (Jeff's decision) and we have no other post presence ready as we move toward crunch time.

I know that we are on a high after beating the Pacers twice and having a very successful road trip, but the refs allowing more non-calls are going to hurt us.

Playing someone like Frye or Markieff at Center is going to put more pressure on the rest of the team. Regardless of where we expect to finish, it is part of the GM's job to make it easier for the team to succeed.

It doesn't matter if we are "good" or "bad". Just so we are better than our opponent on any given night. For Suns fans, mediocrity is no longer acceptable nor expected.

 

[slinslin]

BC867: Suns need a center, yadda yadda yadday, broken record.

I am shocked.

 

[Gaddabout]

FWIW, I would be more reserved in a deal for, say, Kevin Love, who some think fits the superstar status. He certainly fills the stat shot and is probably the best offensive big man since Nowitzki had his legs. But we're also talking about a guy that allows his opponent to score 60% (!!!!!) from the floor, and has missed a LOT of games due to injury. Love makes 14.6 this year, then it escalates an extra million per over the next two years. Not to mention he has an opt-out at the end of 2015, at which point he's just going to sign with the Lakers, anyway.

Love could DEFINITELY make this team a ridiculous offensive powerhouse. He's a better-rebounding, better-passing, more versatile Channing Frye. But -- and I can't believe I'm about to say this -- Frye actually plays better defense. Frye costs about $6.5 mil per and he's signed through 2015.

 

[sunsfan88]

^Love is a million times the rebounder that Frye is though.

Not saying I'm on the Love bandwagon though. At least not yet.