Archie's boys living large

[arthurracoon]

Good fortune finds Mannings . . . and steers them away from desert

Dan Bickley
The Arizona Republic
Jan. 18, 2004 12:00 AM

Eli's coming

An early look at how Eli Manning might fit in with the teams picking at the top of the 2004 draft:

1. SAN DIEGO: Drew Brees is supposed to be the quarterback of the future, but given that he spent the end of his third season watching 41-year-old Doug Flutie take his job, the Chargers might be ready to start over.

2. OAKLAND: Rich Gannon is only one year removed from a Pro Bowl season, but he's now 38 and broke down after seven games in 2003.

3. ARIZONA: The Cardinals have no shortage of needs, but it's doubtful new coach Dennis Green is comfortable planning his revival around incumbent QBs Jeff Blake and Josh McCown.


Crazy luck can't go on forever, and sometimes, Archie Manning is afraid to cross the street.

One child has risen above every other quarterback in the NFL. Another was a Heisman Trophy finalist and now is the hottest collegian in the country.
So, does this embarrassment of fatherly fortune end today, when prime-time Peyton squares off against Bill Belichick's darkest thoughts?

Or does it happen when young Eli gets drafted by the Cardinals?

"I'll be honest with you, it's lining up like it did with Peyton six years ago," Archie Manning said. "Back then, I had people telling me to pull an Elway, that you don't want to go there (Indianapolis). That team was starting over.

"I hear my friends talking again (about the Cardinals), but I'll tell you, it's just not in our nature to do that."

Still, Manning understands the irony, for he has skirted this Arizona scenario before. That was in 1997, when the Cardinals staged a remarkable rally to beat the Falcons in the last game of the season, thus losing any chance to draft Peyton.

The Colts snagged him with the No. 1 pick and immediately changed the lineage of a sorry franchise that once failed to sign John Elway. That was largely due to another football father, Jack Elway, who didn't want his son in the hands of Colts coach Frank Kush.

So here is Archie Manning - once again looking at the Cardinals, the losses and all the empty seats - and wondering like any sane father would.

"I know Arizona hasn't had a lot of success in the last 15 years, and that people are critical of the organization," he said. "I also know and respect Dennis Green. We're not going to assume anything with Eli, and we'll just have to see how the process works."

Manning knows something else, though. When Peyton steps on the field today in New England, he could make all of this worrying go away. He is in the midst of one of the greatest playoff runs a quarterback has ever had, and if you prefer images, think of Joe Montana times two.

By the numbers, that would be 44 completions in 56 passes, no interceptions and a punter whose leg is atrophying from lack of use.

In this postseason, Peyton has become the brain surgeon of his trade. Now he is facing the perfect nemesis in the Patriots' Belichick, a diabolic game-planner who lives to rattle quarterbacks. If Manning finds his way through this collision course, the DNA factor goes off the charts and young Eli surely will be the No. 1 pick in the draft. That would put him in San Diego instead of Arizona.

"I was just telling his mother the other day that what's happening with Peyton is certainly not hurting Eli," Archie Manning said. "Someone asked me if I was kind of living through my children, and I had never felt that way before. But I'll admit that during these two playoff games, maybe I am. I played 15 years and never got to the playoffs. I know how hard it is."

Truly, it has been a season that makes a father's vehicle and thoughts run in many directions.

Peyton has been the lucky one. The first pass he threw in the NFL went for a touchdown. The Colts went from 3-13 to 13-3 in his second season. And here they are, playing for a shot at the Super Bowl.

But his oldest son, Cooper, had to quit the game after being diagnosed with a spinal cord condition. He is an institutional broker in New Orleans. Young Eli could end up in the wrong situation, where all the money in the world can't soothe the losing.

Archie would know. His own career was defined by all those bad teams in New Orleans, ones that had Manning scrambling for his life on nearly every snap, ones that made him a model of resolute toughness. In those days, the Saints were known as the Ain'ts.

Of course, he already had grown accustomed to hard knocks in college, when Archie's father committed suicide.

"Peyton always kept up pretty good, a student of the game, a historian," Manning said. "Eli was the other way around. He just didn't pay much attention to the past. Once he signed with Ole Miss, he was looking through the media guides. I guess people told him how good I was. He called me and said, 'Dad, your numbers aren't that good.' "

Eli broke 45 passing records at Ole Miss, including 27 of his father's. Now, only one of Archie's remains intact. Eli could be the best Manning yet, and I really should refrain from teasing Cardinals fans with the following:

The Manning brothers and Cardinals coach Dennis Green are represented by the same agency, IMG. And it's likely that young Eli already has completed his first pass to Anquan Boldin, as the two are currently working out with a group of IMG clients in Florida.

"Eli told me he met Anquan the other day," Archie Manning said.

Alas, the way things are going, the Cardinals never will get a chance to draft young Eli. Not if they don't trade up. Not with the way Peyton's playing. Not with the way Archie's luck has been lately.

So the elder Manning will take his seat in New England today and shake his head. A sudden reprieve is expected from the bitter weather. His boys are living large, and Archie feels like an overly blessed father, patriarch of the first family of quarterbacks.

If he gets a moment, he may think of the strangest twist in luck yet: that day in Arizona when Josh McCown threw a touchdown pass to Nate Poole, capping another improbable comeback that kept one of his boys out of the NFL's withering desert.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Way to extinguish any good feelings people have over hiring Green.

What an ass Bickley is...

 

[Renz]

It never ceases to amaze me how a guy who covers the local NFL team does nothing but consistently trash them, no matter what they do. How does this guy get any interviews or quotes from players? If I was on the team and I saw him coming I'd tell him to go take a flying **** at a rolling donut.

 

[Brevity]

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
What an ass Bickley is...

Roger that! This article was just another opportunity to take cheap shots at the organization.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Whoa! Whoa!... Guys! Ease up a little ok?

Bickleys actual a pretty decent writer.

 

[nidan]

Originally posted by Crimson Warrior
Whoa! Whoa!... Guys! Ease up a little ok?

Bickleys actual a pretty decent writer.

What planet are you from, Bickley is a dork. He tries in almost every article to take shots at the Cardinals.

It doesn't matter what they do he finds a way to say something unpleasant.

 

[nidan]

In fact I would say that only Gambo is worse than Bickley. With Gambo it always, with Bickley it's almost always.

 

[football karma]

What would you rather have given the team's history:

a local columnist who gives them a total pass, putting no pressure on management to change their ways

or

one who holds their feet to the fire.



I would rather have the latter.

 

[Ryanwb]

Originally posted by en fuego
What would you rather have given the team's history:

a local columnist who gives them a total pass, putting no pressure on management to change their ways

or

one who holds their feet to the fire.



I would rather have the latter.

We don't have the "latter", we have hacks who can't make it in other major markets so they come here. There has been a few things positive worth writing about and they ignore it. They write about how much of a Saint Colangelo is and how the Bidwills are pure concentrated evil....when if you look at the history it is the exacty opposite.

 

[nidan]

Originally posted by en fuego
one who holds their feet to the fire.

I would rather have the latter.

I agree, I would as well but there is a difference between that and what we have.

In your scenario I would expect the them to call out the Cards for what they perceive as bad moves, I would also expect them them to research their article in an attempt to ensure that what they say is accurate and informed.

Bickley and Gambo do not do this. They seem to delight in writing articles that are as unpleasant as possible, they do no appear to do much investigation as it is far easier to make up speculations.

If the Cardinals do something that is in their opinion "bad, or stupid" they take great delight in writing about it. When the Cardinal do something that appears to be intelligent they do their best to minimize it and inevitably they will sprinkle the article with snide comments.

I really wish they did "hold their feet to the fire" but I'd like some facts involved and a little less obvious enjoyment in it.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Originally posted by nidan
I agree, I would as well but there is a difference between that and what we have.

In your scenario I would expect the them to call out the Cards for what they perceive as bad moves, I would also expect them them to research their article in an attempt to ensure that what they say is accurate and informed.

Bickley and Gambo do not do this. They seem to delight in writing articles that are as unpleasant as possible, they do no appear to do much investigation as it is far easier to make up speculations.

If the Cardinals do something that is in their opinion "bad, or stupid" they take great delight in writing about it. When the Cardinal do something that appears to be intelligent they do their best to minimize it and inevitably they will sprinkle the article with snide comments.

I really wish they did "hold their feet to the fire" but I'd like some facts involved and a little less obvious enjoyment in it.

Nidian, I agree with you 99% of the time, but not this time.

I'm of course, an out-of-stater, so I don't see every Bickley article. I have read most of his cardinal articles posted on the azcentral site since about 99' or so, and I feel I'm reasonably qualified to make some kind of judgment on his bias.

Yes, the majority of his articles are negative. No question. In his defense, however, almost every time the cardinals even hint that they are going to turn it around, he signs on, and writes something positive.

I believe his most recent positive works were articles supporting the play of Josh McCown, something like "McCown has potential to spoil draft", and also an article supporting the Green hiring ("Green risky, right hire" (or something to that effect)).

I guess my point is that I get enough "sugar coating" of the cardinals moves from this board. Bickley calls it like he sees it, and gives me the dose of reality that I need every now and then. His writing my never win a pulitzer, but its better than that Gambo guy. I find Bickley's style not offensive, but rather effective, and slightly humorous and entertaining.

Different people have different tastes and perceptions of what they read though, so I respect your opinion if you think he isn't any good.

 

[lrk27]

Originally posted by Ryanwb
We don't have the "latter", we have hacks who can't make it in other major markets so they come here. There has been a few things positive worth writing about and they ignore it. They write about how much of a Saint Colangelo is and how the Bidwills are pure concentrated evil....when if you look at the history it is the exacty opposite.

While I'm not a huge fan, Bickley could work in 99% of all markets in this country. He left (by choice) Chicago to come here. There aren't many cities bigger (sportswise) than Phoenix and Chicago.

I don't understand why everyone wants to view the Cards through rose colored glasses. They are a BAD football team, and an even worse organization. The problem isn't that it is being written about, it is that people don't want to accept it. The reason you don't see any columns from anyone saying how great the Cards are is 1- it's not true, and 2- no one would read it.

Maybe it's me, but it seems like you guys are trying a bit hard to read between the lines on this one. This article is about Eli Manning, it is not about the ineptitude of the Cardinals. The only knock on the Cards is that once again a late season win may keep a Manning child out of Tempe. It couldn't have worked out better for Peyton, so maybe it's good for Eli also.

Lay off of Bickley, there is nothing wrong with this column. And for a guy who does no research and has no facts, Archie Manning seemed OK with talking to him. For the amount of reporters in this town who "have no facts and do no research", it's amazing that anyone who wasn't at the game knows the score each week.

 

[Renz]

Bickley is lazy. Plain and simple. Just look at his comments the other day on his radio show about the Cards being "too cheap" to pay for quality assistants and that they spent all their money on the head coach.

Did he back up his statements with facts? No. That is vintage Bickley.

 

[lrk27]

Originally posted by Renz
Bickley is lazy. Plain and simple. Just look at his comments the other day on his radio show about the Cards being "too cheap" to pay for quality assistants and that they spent all their money on the head coach.

Did he back up his statements with facts? No. That is vintage Bickley.

Call it what you want, it is the case. They spent all of their money on Green and were not able to bring in the assistants they would have like. Sorry, but he was right on that one.

 

[Renz]

Originally posted by lrk27
Call it what you want, it is the case. They spent all of their money on Green and were not able to bring in the assistants they would have like. Sorry, but he was right on that one.

Do you have any proof that they wanted to hire other assistants, but lost them because of money concerns?

 

[Evil Ash]

Originally posted by lrk27
Call it what you want, it is the case. They spent all of their money on Green and were not able to bring in the assistants they would have like. Sorry, but he was right on that one.

Based on what?

There has been nothing that has said that the guys that were hired by Green weren't who he wanted in the first place. I know there are a few exceptions namely OC and DC but both Colletto (sp?) and Emmitt Thomas admitted that money wasn't in a factor in not coming here!

Now don't get me wrong I'm still somewhat of a fan of Bickley's writing ... but on this subject he has no quotes or info from inside sources (at least no mention of any). Therefore at this point it comes off as meerly SPECULATION and nothing more!

 

[ajcardfan]

Bickley is a columnist first, a reporter second. His main goal is to generate interest, good or bad, in his topics. If people are talking about what he wrote, then he wrote a good column. (At least from the newspaper's point of view.) He could of wrote about Manning without bringing the Cards into it much at all. But he did, and here we are noticing him and the paper. Which is all they really want.

Every time one of these "I hate Bickley's bias" threads goes up, I'll post:

Bickley wins!

 

[Renz]

Originally posted by ajcardfan
Bickley is a columnist first, a reporter second. His main goal is to generate interest, good or bad, in his topics. If people are talking about what he wrote, then he wrote a good column. (At least from the newspaper's point of view.) He could of wrote about Manning without bringing the Cards into it much at all. But he did, and here we are noticing him and the paper. Which is all they really want.

Every time one of these "I hate Bickley's bias" threads goes up, I'll post:

Bickley wins!

You're right. I will never mention his name again. It is the same with Gambo. I won't even click on his link at azcentral anymore because the newspaper only keeps track of the number of hits he gets. They couldn't care less that most Arizona sports fans can't stand the guy.

 

[nidan]

Originally posted by lrk27
Call it what you want, it is the case. They spent all of their money on Green and were not able to bring in the assistants they would have like. Sorry, but he was right on that one.

How do you know that ???

I can assure you Bickley doesn't know it, if Kent Somers or maybe MJ said it was a fact , then maybe.

Bickley is guessing, I don not believe he has talked to Rod Graves or Dennis Green and ben told this. It is a belief on my part but it is based on what I KNOW of his efforts to research information with the Cardinals staff.

Frankly I also am pretty sure RG wouldn't tell Bickley this even if he asked.

 

[lrk27]

Originally posted by nidan
How do you know that ???

I can assure you Bickley doesn't know it, if Kent Somers or maybe MJ said it was a fact , then maybe.

Bickley is guessing, I don not believe he has talked to Rod Graves or Dennis Green and ben told this. It is a belief on my part but it is based on what I KNOW of his efforts to research information with the Cardinals staff.

Frankly I also am pretty sure RG wouldn't tell Bickley this even if he asked.

Believe it or not, there are more than three people (Somers, Urban, Jurecki) that are involved in what the Cards do. And people who work together (Bickley and Somers) talk to each other. Dan does not throw speculation out and label it as fact. He will speculate and tell you so, but won't call it fact. I know you go to the facility for practice and press conferences, but there is media there every day getting information. More than you think. The local media is not as 'out of it' as some would make you believe.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by lrk27
I know you go to the facility for practice and press conferences, but there is media there every day getting information. More than you think. The local media is not as 'out of it' as some would make you believe.

Bickley is never at the facility. Why don't you ask people who actually spend time at the facility (Skkorp, Melanie, Nidan, and Brighteyes). They would know better than you do.

 

[lrk27]

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
Bickley is never at the facility. Why don't you ask people who actually spend time at the facility (Skkorp, Melanie, Nidan, and Brighteyes). They would know better than you do.

Believe it or not, I spend more time at the facility than anyone you just mentioned. Nothing against those you just mentioned, I enjoy reading their work and they seem to be accurate. But believe me, Bickley is there when he is doing a story on the Cardinals. It isn't just hatched in his brain and typed from his desk. I don't necessarily agree with all he writes, but he DOES do his research.

 

[nidan]

If you say so, but I sure havn't seen him but then somebody would have to point him out to me.

Kent & Darren seem to live there, obviously MJ is there a lot plus a few others. But I sure don't see Bickley much or I would recognise him.

 

[SECTION 11]

For the record, Luke Kohler from XtraSports910 was correct on the Cardinals finishing 4-12, but struck out on ASU and Kansas City.

http://www.xtrasports910.com/lukekohler.html


BTW: Tell Asher that Rex Ryan as a DC candidate was a complete joke. And by all means tell Gambo that he's a hack.

 

[ajcardfan]

Originally posted by SECTION 11
For the record, Luke Kohler from XtraSports910 was correct on the Cardinals finishing 4-12, but struck out on ASU and Kansas City.

http://www.xtrasports910.com/lukekohler.html


BTW: Tell Asher that Rex Ryan as a DC candidate was a complete joke. And by all means tell Gambo that he's a hack.

Wow. We're really being blessed by these big time media guys giving us their personal insight. First, we had Rod ("I'm Rod Lakin and you're not!") Lakin from ESPN860, and now someone who can actually touch, see and smell Gambo and Asher everyday!

I thought anything not backed up with a source, even an anonymous one, is speculation. Especially in a column. But, I don't have big time journalism degrees like these guys do. I'm glad they are here to set us straight on who we have to believe.