Arians bashers
- Thread starter Cbus cardsfan
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The offense the past two weeks has been pitifully bad. That first half yesterday stunk out loud. It's hard for me to give much credit to Arians when he is the one calling the plays and he is supposed to be this offense/QB guru yet the offense sucks so bad. They average less than 2 TDs a game on the season.
Yes he's got a back up QB in there (who was the #10 overall pick in his draft btw) and injuries upfront and in the backfield. I get that. I look at a team like the Vikings though and somehow they are still able to make it work. In fact they might now have the inside track to get to the SB out of the NFC. Can anyone even name their OC without googling it?
The Cards have 6 wins and 7 losses. If we are going to give a coach "credit" for the wins then we should also give him an equal share for the losses, no? They have been able to squeak out some close Ws, but the overall point differential this season is ugly.
Yes he's got a back up QB in there (who was the #10 overall pick in his draft btw) and injuries upfront and in the backfield. I get that. I look at a team like the Vikings though and somehow they are still able to make it work. In fact they might now have the inside track to get to the SB out of the NFC. Can anyone even name their OC without googling it?
The Cards have 6 wins and 7 losses. If we are going to give a coach "credit" for the wins then we should also give him an equal share for the losses, no? They have been able to squeak out some close Ws, but the overall point differential this season is ugly.
iLLmatiC
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Hard to really cast stones when you look at what Arians has to work with. We are missing 2 starting OL, soon to be 3, our starting RB1, our starting RB2, our starting QB1, and our starting WR2 (JB). Our offense looks pretty damn barren which is crazy considering just 3 years ago we were the talk of the NFL.
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azsouthendzone
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Bettcher dialed it up yesterday. Credit where credit is due!
Living in Minnesota I get the “privilege” to work with a bunch of Vikings fans and my brother-in-law is living with me while he figures out his life, so I normally watch a lot of Vikings games. Pat Shurmer is the OC for them(few mentioned him as a HC for us in the future). He’s done an excellent job with the offense this year, but most their success comes in the trenches like the Rams.
Besides Mike Remmers(RT) their Oline has stayed healthy. Riley Reif is playing great on the left side after coming over from Detroit. Their rookie center Pat Elflein is on track to be a perennial pro-bowler at center. Their backup qb was 7-7 the last 2 years as a starter on the Rams (fisher Rams lol). Their backup RB is a 1,000 yard rusher just 2 years ago with the Raiders and he’s not past his prime at the age of 27.
On defense they’ve got Everson Griffin, Linval Joseph, Anthony Barr, Xavier Rhodes, and Harrison smith who’ve all been to pro bowls within the last 2 years and having played almost all the games this year. The injury bug hasn’t hit them as hard as they hit us.
This week Reif and Rudolsh(TE) were hurt and might miss some games.
It’s funny though because every time I ask them about hosting the Super Bowl they always say “the Vikings will find a way to screw it up. They always do!”
TJ
Frank Kaminsky is my Hero.
Cheese is correct.
I thought the point of a message board was for sharing opinions and having lively discussions, not sending direct messages to the front office brass telling them what to do. Even if I were a friend of Steve Keim or Michael Bidwill, they wouldn't give two poops what I thought about the team. Hell, I don't even give two poops about what I think about the team, for what that's worth.
AsUpRoDiGy
Magnanimous
Get a room, already!It's my M.O. man I'm bring peace to the world one suck up at a time.
pmacLean
Veteran
Actually, Arians disparages his team ALL the time. And the point was he should have been disparaging the team... TO KEIM (not us, not reporters, to the GM)...
AZCrazy
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If Arians can go 8-8 with this smoldering mess, he should win Coach of the Year again.
Me thinks the missed FG against the Hags still haunts them.
That, the favre int in 09’, and the Gary Anderson missed FG in 98’
Harry
ASFN Consultant and Senior Writer
I think it’s fair to say BA is one of the Cards best coaches ever. He brought a great attitude to the team and got them to believe in themselves. Unfortunately he was given progressively weaker rosters. So on the surface you might think he should be retained. I don’t believe so. His failure to make obvious staff changes and instead he offered continuing lame excused for their failure. Living here in FL I’ve watch major program coaches, like Bowden, McElwain and Fisher all failed in part due to poor assistant coaches. I see the same thing starting in AZ. Fisher, for example, started strong , but his line coaches failed as did his receivers coach. In fact, I don’t believe he is taking any coaches to A&M. I think BA would quit rather than have coaches dictated to him.
GuernseyCard
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So in other words, the problem is at least one step up the ladder.
Harry
ASFN Consultant and Senior Writer
Certainly a significant concern. I’m not sure how much influence BA has on personnel. Maybe his loyalty extends to the weak players. I just know coaches like Amos should have been long gone. It’s sad it apparently took until last week for SK to find that out. I keep seeing talented players including vets like Dawson struggling. He finally complained about the blocking which I’ve complained about a couple of time previously. I keep seeing players like Nelson regress. They ruined PP as a punt returner. Nicklas was the best blocking TE in his college class. I just see obvious corrections not being made. I think you need to change the coaching to get a better handle on SK. I think he’s been weak on early round picks and that’s a major concern.
Relative to your observations of BA, Keim appears (on the surface) to at least try and take an honest look at his drafting success/failure rates and then adjust. Hard task since some picks take a few years to fully show their ability, but I don't think we will see a Brandon Williams taken in the third round again.
AsUpRoDiGy
Magnanimous
Well they did just draft Chad Williams in the 3rd, so I'm not sure that they've learned much from their past mistakes.
Stout
Hold onto the ball, Murray!
Exactly. EX-ACT-LY!!!
football karma
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my theory on Keim:
In the rebuilding phase (years 1 and 2) he did an excellent job of finding talent, filling holes.
In doing so, he relied on free agency (Veldheer, Iupati, even Palmer was a kinda-free agent) to get there quickly. What this means was that as the drafted guys came ready for their next contract-- Pat P, Badger -- plus key vets -- Fitz -- cap space dissapeared quickly.
This put emphasis on the draft -- and i feel like Keim started reaching for need and for need at "talent bargains" -- "if they stayed one more year / were from a larger school / played another year at the position they would have been drafted much higher" types. We have seen so much volatility there.
I think fans love aggressiveness when "the window is open, we need to go for it now!" -- and thats what Keim did.
The problem with that approach is that when the window closes -- all those short term decisions catch up with you quickly.
In the rebuilding phase (years 1 and 2) he did an excellent job of finding talent, filling holes.
In doing so, he relied on free agency (Veldheer, Iupati, even Palmer was a kinda-free agent) to get there quickly. What this means was that as the drafted guys came ready for their next contract-- Pat P, Badger -- plus key vets -- Fitz -- cap space dissapeared quickly.
This put emphasis on the draft -- and i feel like Keim started reaching for need and for need at "talent bargains" -- "if they stayed one more year / were from a larger school / played another year at the position they would have been drafted much higher" types. We have seen so much volatility there.
I think fans love aggressiveness when "the window is open, we need to go for it now!" -- and thats what Keim did.
The problem with that approach is that when the window closes -- all those short term decisions catch up with you quickly.
artp
Registered
If BA wans to come back, he'll come back
Stout
Hold onto the ball, Murray!
Except, no, that's exactly the OPPOSITE of what Keim did. If he's all-in on 'the window is open, we need to go for it now!', he doesn't draft Hump, an OT that is so underdeveloped that he redshirts an entire year, never even dressing for a game. That's drafting a developmental guy for the future, NOT going for it. Same with the other projects we've drafted. No, we've had holes, and rather than filling them, he's reached for projects that largely haven't panned out.
OP
OP
Cbus cardsfan
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I think all draft picks are made for the future. Good teams aren't counting on guys to be high impact players as rookies. It's nice if they get results from rookies(like when John Brown showed up) but that's a bonus and not something that's banked on. It used to bug me in the old days when the Cards were expecting rookies to be their best players.
I have not been a huge fan of Keim's drafts but I also don't think it's been as bad as some make it out to be. I think he's been average but also the last few years, the Cards had a pretty talented roster and it was harder for rookies to make an impact. This year, the talent level is on the decline and you're seeing more rookies like Reddick and Baker have impacts earlier than in the past.
Keim has to finally take the risk and draft a QB in the 1st round, trading up if necessary. It's a crapshot anyways: Winston and Mariota were touted as the next big things early on, yet both are shaping up to be average QBs at best. Some people have written off Wentz as a rookie, and Goff has looked like he doesn't even belong as a 3rd stringer - now both are among the very best QBs in the league.
You can't be a GM forever while evading the most important position for 5 years, which is an eternity in NFL terms. There are many different types of QBs available. I don't care if our future franchise QB is Mayfield or Jackson, both of whom have question marks but undeniable talents. Just draft one of those guys and run a scheme that fits them perfectly. That's the way to go Keim!
You can't be a GM forever while evading the most important position for 5 years, which is an eternity in NFL terms. There are many different types of QBs available. I don't care if our future franchise QB is Mayfield or Jackson, both of whom have question marks but undeniable talents. Just draft one of those guys and run a scheme that fits them perfectly. That's the way to go Keim!
RugbyMuffin
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Arians is a good coach. Not to mention he is the same man he was when he started his time with the Cardinals. Same attitude, same personality, same coaching style, etc., etc. The only thing that has changed is the success he has been having.
Some people on this board, jumped off his bandwagon the second there was any adversity, and have made it some type of "personal vendetta" to do all they can to trash Arians, and the team.
I CAN 100% RESPECT, anyone that says Arians has "lost the team", or his system is no longer working, or bad play calling, or bad assistant coaching selection.
The arguments and wild speculation about his character, and his personality ?
I do not know what to say about that, except some people can only buy into things when things are going extremely well. The minute they do not get what they want, they become angry and spiteful.
I cannot understand it. Some of the posts, and statements I have read on this board over the last two years, makes me question why some people are here, why they waste their time watching something they loathe so much, and then have the need to make sure that all fans of the team feel as horrible as they do. Its football for Pete's sake, there is no medal coming in the mail for your fandom. If you are so unhappy with the state of the Cardinals, the players, the coaches, and the executives, then go watch something else. Seriously, I am a humanitarian. I hate seeing people so miserable over something that should be relaxing and fun.
Stout
Hold onto the ball, Murray!
In the old days (90's and early 2000's), I was totally of this opinion, and argued vehemently against drafting for need. Nowadays, with the way the NFL and FA is set up? First rounders MUST play, and play well, otherwise the team is at a disadvantage. You should expect contributions from your high picks. The days of drafting completely for the future are over.
RugbyMuffin
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+1.
You add in now that draft analysis has never been more clueless of that the league is looking at and where players may go, its just a completely different feel and situation then it was, dare I say 5 years ago.
Once the draft became slotted, that was a huge factor in your draft picks need to play, and play well, since it is a way to work the salary cap.
