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Except, no, that's exactly the OPPOSITE of what Keim did. If he's all-in on 'the window is open, we need to go for it now!', he doesn't draft Hump, an OT that is so underdeveloped that he redshirts an entire year,

Hump was drafted to take Massie's spot --a player they never really liked. The redshirt stuff came later and i doubt was part of some plan they had ahead of time.

and to be clear -- my belief is the short term stuff really started after the 13-3 2015 season.
 

CFLredzoned

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I think the biggest contributor to the Cardinals 'win now' mode was all the restructuring of contracts. In 2015, the Cardinals were the NFL poster child for that. Was there any major $ player that didn't get restructured? I think the 2017 season was the inevitable sacrificial lamb for that approach. I think the 2018 offseason will be fun. I'm predicting another houdini act similar to the first rebuild, especially if they can get most of Palmer's numbers off the books.
 

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I think the biggest contributor to the Cardinals 'win now' mode was all the restructuring of contracts. In 2015, the Cardinals were the NFL poster child for that. Was there any major $ player that didn't get restructured? I think the 2017 season was the inevitable sacrificial lamb for that approach. I think the 2018 offseason will be fun. I'm predicting another houdini act similar to the first rebuild, especially if they can get most of Palmer's numbers off the books.

Agreed.

Keim had 2015 circled, and to be fair they came VERY close to pulling it off. I still think if Tyrann Mathieu doesn't get hurt the team had a shot at winning it all.
 

Stout

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Hump was drafted to take Massie's spot --a player they never really liked. The redshirt stuff came later and i doubt was part of some plan they had ahead of time.

and to be clear -- my belief is the short term stuff really started after the 13-3 2015 season.

If they were counting on Hump year 1, Keim is to be derided even more for the pick. It was crystal clear, before the draft, that he wasn't ready to start. That he needed work. Many here said it, and every one of the talking heads said it.

Agreed.

Keim had 2015 circled, and to be fair they came VERY close to pulling it off. I still think if Tyrann Mathieu doesn't get hurt the team had a shot at winning it all.

If Honey Badger isn't hurt, our chances would have been greatly improved, no doubt.
 

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If Badger doesn’t get hurt, we still lose to Carolina, although by not as much probably.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Well they did just draft Chad Williams in the 3rd, so I'm not sure that they've learned much from their past mistakes.
The two aren’t comparable.

Brandon - bigtime program at A&M but only year at position.

Chad - small program with bigtime production.

Different fact patterns. Different lessons.
 

AsUpRoDiGy

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The two aren’t comparable.

Brandon - bigtime program at A&M but only year at position.

Chad - small program with bigtime production.

Different fact patterns. Different lessons.
Well the two are comparable in the fact that they were widely deemed as over-drafted, by a long shot.
 

DVontel

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Well the two are comparable in the fact that they were widely deemed as over-drafted, by a long shot.
I agree.
Chad would have still been drafted, probably in the 5th-6th round, though.

I’m 100% sure Brandon Williams wouldn’t have been drafted at all. Not sure what the hell Keim was thinking there.
 
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Cbus cardsfan

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In the old days (90's and early 2000's), I was totally of this opinion, and argued vehemently against drafting for need. Nowadays, with the way the NFL and FA is set up? First rounders MUST play, and play well, otherwise the team is at a disadvantage. You should expect contributions from your high picks. The days of drafting completely for the future are over.
Maybe on lesser teams but other than NO, Car, and Jax, I don't see many playoff teams getting big contribution from their #1 pick(s).
KC and SD little to none
Pitt-TJ Watt injured
Seattle/NE/Rams/Minn- no #1 pick
Philly- Barnett is contributing
Tenn- Corey Davis-minimal, Adorree Jackson-contributing
Bal- Marlon Humphrey-minimal
Atlanta-McKinley-contributing
 

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I agree.
Chad would have still been drafted, probably in the 5th-6th round, though.

I’m 100% sure Brandon Williams wouldn’t have been drafted at all. Not sure what the hell Keim was thinking there.

The Patriots were all over Brandon Williams during the draft process. Had him in for a visit and worked him out privately. The reports were very positive.

What's discouraging about Williams is that he isn't even contributing much on STs. Again, that could be as much or more about the coaching than the player. Williams was very good on STs at A&M.
 

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I cannot understand it. Some of the posts, and statements I have read on this board over the last two years, makes me question why some people are here, why they waste their time watching something they loathe so much, and then have the need to make sure that all fans of the team feel as horrible as they do.
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I can understand it completely. I became a Card fan when I moved here in 93 (first time I lived in a city/area with it's own team, since I don't count LA and would be happy to never see LA again, ever.)

Longtime fans spent so many futile years backing and loving this team, that the euphoria at having an actual, competitive organisation was almost too much to bear. And then to see it being eroded and seemingly snatched away made the "fall from grace" even harder to bear. We only had a brief glimpse at something we used to just dream about... and that glimpse was enough, we want it back and simply have no more patience for incompetence (Amos, Betcher, O-line coaching) and cronyism (BA last couple of years).

People are on here bitching, NOT because they loathe it, they are on here bitching because they love it (possibly too much)
 

WisconsinCard

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If they were counting on Hump year 1, Keim is to be derided even more for the pick. It was crystal clear, before the draft, that he wasn't ready to start. That he needed work. Many here said it, and every one of the talking heads said it.

Not true on draft day McShay said he was a day one starter and would be for the next 10 years. He also said he would be the best LT drafted.
 

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I can understand it completely. I became a Card fan when I moved here in 93 (first time I lived in a city/area with it's own team, since I don't count LA and would be happy to never see LA again, ever.)

Longtime fans spent so many futile years backing and loving this team, that the euphoria at having an actual, competitive organisation was almost too much to bear. And then to see it being eroded and seemingly snatched away made the "fall from grace" even harder to bear. We only had a brief glimpse at something we used to just dream about... and that glimpse was enough, we want it back and simply have no more patience for incompetence (Amos, Betcher, O-line coaching) and cronyism (BA last couple of years).

People are on here bitching, NOT because they loathe it, they are on here bitching because they love it (possibly too much)

All good points.

I think I did a poor job with my point.

I want the team to succeed too, and I have my comments and criticisms.

But there is a difference between complaining when the team is having a 10 win season, and they lose once and you rail on the team from that point on, and complaining when the team is 5-11, or 3-13.

This team has its warts, and the plan this organization had going into this season was a poor one. There is no doubt about that.

The complaints , I am talking about, I have read and seen lately, and this is my opinion and interpretation, is a damnation of this team, whether it wins 10 games or wins 2. Complaints about players that are not only the best players on the team, but in some cases top 5 in their positions in the league. And if stats, and information in print get in the way of proving these complaints and pining wrong ? Attack the people, places and things within the organization on a personal level with speculation about their personalities, and what is "going on behind the scenes".

At that point, I start to question why is that person wasting so much time on something they loathe ? Because to take your complaints to that level ? It brings into question what in the heck is going on there. I have no want to sit here and read about how someone wants to stop other's from being a fan and enjoying the Cardinals organization. Or in other words, I am not going to have much patience for people who are going to shame me for enjoying the team whose message board I am on.

The NFL is a roller coast, you are up some years, and down the next. No one wants the "Same ol'Cardinals", but I do not think this organization is even close to that mess. C

Complaints are part of being a fan, but I have been on boards like this for almost 20 years, and this year set the bar for going way way way out of the way to prove something negative about the very core of the team and organization.
 
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Michael snuggles the cap space
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If they were counting on Hump year 1, Keim is to be derided even more for the pick. It was crystal clear, before the draft, that he wasn't ready to start. That he needed work. Many here said it, and every one of the talking heads said it.

i would agree the common take was "raw" -- but if the consensus really was that he would have to be redshirted a year before he could contribute -- nobody would have put him in their top 40 players -- and nearly all did.


here is NFL.Com's draft analysis on Hump:

DRAFT PROJECTION
Round 1
SOURCES TELL US
"He can probably come in and play right away, but I'm not quite as high on him as everyone else seems to be. I think he can be good but I don't see a Pro Bowl player." - NFL Director of Personnel
NFL COMPARISON
D'Brickashaw Ferguson
BOTTOM LINE
An elite-level tackle when he exited the high school ranks, Humphries relies on his superior athleticism and fist-fight mentality rather than an improved skill set and steady technique. He might always have an issue with being a leaner, but his hand placement should improve with more work and coaching. When he improves in that area, he could become a solid NFL starter on the left side.
 

Stout

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i would agree the common take was "raw" -- but if the consensus really was that he would have to be redshirted a year before he could contribute -- nobody would have put him in their top 40 players -- and nearly all did.


here is NFL.Com's draft analysis on Hump:

DRAFT PROJECTION
Round 1
SOURCES TELL US
"He can probably come in and play right away, but I'm not quite as high on him as everyone else seems to be. I think he can be good but I don't see a Pro Bowl player." - NFL Director of Personnel
NFL COMPARISON
D'Brickashaw Ferguson
BOTTOM LINE
An elite-level tackle when he exited the high school ranks, Humphries relies on his superior athleticism and fist-fight mentality rather than an improved skill set and steady technique. He might always have an issue with being a leaner, but his hand placement should improve with more work and coaching. When he improves in that area, he could become a solid NFL starter on the left side.

I said everyone thought he wasn't ready to START right away; no one in their wildest imagination could have thought he would redshirt the whole season.
 
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Cbus cardsfan

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I remember talking to scout friend after Hump was drafted. He liked the pick and said DJ was extremely talented but was immature. That seemed to hold water because, iirc, there were reports the first year that he needed to learn how to be a "pro". If he stays healthy, I think he's going to be a top tier LT and was showing a lot of promise.
 

ARZCardinals

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Lol! The entire draft and offseason is ‘promise’

A promise and $2.50 will get you a cup of coffee.

This is a RESULTS business and the last two years the results are horrible And the future looks bleak

Season ticket holders are headed out the gate.

Talk all day about ‘promise’ and you’ll end up a Browns fan faster than John Brown on a 9 route.
 
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Cbus cardsfan

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Lol! The entire draft and offseason is ‘promise’

A promise and $2.50 will get you a cup of coffee.

This is a RESULTS business and the last two years the results are horrible And the future looks bleak

Season ticket holders are headed out the gate.

Talk all day about ‘promise’ and you’ll end up a Browns fan faster than John Brown on a 9 route.
Aren't the off season and draft for every team about "promise"?
 

Stout

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I remember talking to scout friend after Hump was drafted. He liked the pick and said DJ was extremely talented but was immature. That seemed to hold water because, iirc, there were reports the first year that he needed to learn how to be a "pro". If he stays healthy, I think he's going to be a top tier LT and was showing a lot of promise.

He might do. He's shown some more talent than I thought he ever would already, so there's that. My point was that drafting Hump certainly wasn't drafting for the 'now'. That can't even remotely be argued.
 

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He might do. He's shown some more talent than I thought he ever would already, so there's that. My point was that drafting Hump certainly wasn't drafting for the 'now'. That can't even remotely be argued.

stout: we will agree to disagree -- but my belief is that any non-QB drafted in the first round is expected to come in and play right away. Guys that need a year are second day or later picks.
 

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