Arizona Cardinals GM Steve Keim cited for DUI on July 4

[Brian in Mesa]

Not being snarky but all four of those bullets were known 22 years ago. I’m pretty certain alcoholism was already being called a disease 22 years ago. You realize 22 years ago was 1996. That’s not exactly the dark ages. As a 25 year old (and thus one of keims contemporaries) in 1996 I knew not to drink and drive. And I would certainly remember the lesson I learned if I had gotten a dui. Shoot I still vividly recall the ticket I received when I was 17 and had kids hanging out my windows. I had to go before a judge. I was mortified. I would never allow anyone to behave that way in my car again for fear of reprisals. How some of you guys want to ignore or dismiss his original dui is beyond my comprehension.

Right there with you. In 1996 there was plenty of awareness regarding the dangers of drinking and driving. It was hardly the Dark Ages. Being 22 doesn't excuse Keim's decision to drink and drive or reduce it to "just a dumb mistake."

 

[Mainstreet]

You call it compromising. I call it telling the truth and complying with a request from a law enforcement officer.

I agree, never lie to a police officer or a request from a law enforcement officer. It is illegal to do otherwise. If anything is to be debated, do it in court.

My thoughts were how to do both and not incriminate oneself of a crime. The situation is going to play out regardless. This is where I started out with the water example as a way to truthfully answer the question without lying ... how much have you had to drink. However, this might escalate the situation although it shouldn't. Police should always remain professional.

After some thought, I think the best answer if one is guilty and prefers not incriminate oneself is to answer... I prefer not to answer that question.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Also I think you are missing the point of what I'm trying to say here. 22 years ago Keim had a DUI but wasn't diagnosed with Alcoholism because the research wasn't available at the time. Did Keim get the help he needed for Alcohol Dependency if that is what he has as I suspect? You don't just " learn your lesson" if you have AD. You need the proper treatment for it.

My uncle was diagnosed with AD about 10 years ago. He has been clean for the last decade but it was a difficult battle the first couple of years. The first step was admitting he had a problem so that he could get treatment.

Huh? My dad is a recovered alcoholic. My parents got divorced in 1975 and his alcoholism was partly to blame for that. He's been recovered since 1993. This isn't stuff that's brand new from the last decade or so. SMH.

It wouldn't have taken a rocket scientist to realize that Keim had a problem with alcohol 22 years ago. Guarantee you that anyone who went to school with him knew he had an issue whether it was constant partying, binge drinking, or just steady drinking.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Yeah, that's the TMZ society today.

At this point the law and the Cards have dished out their punishments. As a fan you can opt to not support the Cards or even call them and voice your displeasure. To continually vilify Keim now is just self serving.

I am going to mention it when the Cards call me - as they regularly do during the season.

I'll continue to vilify anyone who drinks and drives. I've said several times that I hope he seeks help and gets the help he needs. But, at the same time, he needs to own it and be shamed for it. He needs to display to us that he truly understands the gravity of his decision and makes the life changes necessary to guarantee this never happens again.

 

[Jetstream Green]

That is only considered a character flaw by the lower class of the USA. No where else.

I agree, I think being smart is what you would think a team would look for in a QB... of course I was being sarcastic

 

[Jetstream Green]

It’s possible to simultaneously have compassion for a man for whatever demons he’s fighting and to be disgusted by his lack of concern for the safety of those around him.

I’m not arguing that people are the same in their 40s as they were in their 20s but that doesn’t give him a pass. Just because he was dumber when he was 20 doesn’t mean he was incapable of learning from his mistake back then. Some of you who need a third strike seem to believe that he’s essentially incapable of even remembering he got a dui years ago. Something tells me he remembers simple addition and subtraction and some rudimentary manners and that stealing is wrong. And I’m sure he learned all of that a LOT longer ago than he got his first dui.

Tolstoy once said that a man's character simply becomes more pronounced as they get older... hopefully that is not the case if his character has flaws which is preventing him from confronting his addiction, and it is if you cannot have alcohol even when you have to drive

 

[StreetTruckinTitan]

Tolstoy once said that a man's character simply become more pronounced as they get older... hopefully that is not the case if his character is preventing him from confronting his addiction, and it is if you cannot have alcohol even when you have to drive

Does he have an addiction? Seems to me he's probably just a social drinker? The problem is he drove while intoxicated not that he drinks alcohol. He just needs to make smarter choices if he's going out to have a few in a business or social setting.

 

[Jetstream Green]

Does he have an addiction? Seems to me he's probably just a social drinker? The problem is he drove while intoxicated not that he drinks alcohol. He just needs to make smarter choices if he's going out to have a few in a business or social setting.

Reason I imply the possibility of an addiction because his actions have put him in harm's way if he was cited with an extreme DUI (this is also his second offense, meaning the second time he actually got caught and probably not just the second time he has driven drunk) which he did not have the ability to stop himself driving on his own... that's not right for merely a social drinker in my opinion

 

[Cheesebeef]

Yeah, that's the TMZ society today.

At this point the law and the Cards have dished out their punishments. As a fan you can opt to not support the Cards or even call them and voice your displeasure. To continually vilify Keim now is just self serving.

seems to me attacking people who aren't crazy about a two-time DUI offender as the leader of the team is pretty self-serving to me... as is minimizing the offense by whataboutting consistently as you've done here.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Does he have an addiction? Seems to me he's probably just a social drinker? The problem is he drove while intoxicated not that he drinks alcohol. He just needs to make smarter choices if he's going out to have a few in a business or social setting.

.19 BAC isn't just a few in any setting.

 

[StreetTruckinTitan]

.19 BAC isn't just a few in any setting.

Wasnt it a Fourth of July party? That would qualify as an appropriate setting?

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

.19 is very drunk...just think, Floyd was .21.

 

[GatorAZ]

.19 is hammered but when you get pulled over the shock can sober you up a little bit (mentally). I think that’s why he didn’t seem completely wrecked. Plus he’s used to high pressure/tense situations so he was able to get thru it without looking completely bombed on the tape.

 

[StreetTruckinTitan]

.19 is very drunk...just think, Floyd was .21.

Alcohol affects everyone differently. Keims a big dude. Im sure he can handle a lot more than someone who weighs 50# less? Judging by his interaction with the police he didnt seem that inebriated?

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Stage 1 of alcoholism is occasional binge drinking. A lot of people are stage 1 by this definition.

Most people think of alcoholism at Stage 3

 

[Cheesebeef]

Alcohol affects everyone differently. Keims a big dude. Im sure he can handle a lot more than someone who weighs 50# less? Judging by his interaction with the police he didnt seem that inebriated?

jesus christ... REALLY? Michael Floyd's a pretty damn big dude also. and that BAC is relative to everyone.

This is infuriating. I can't believe how much people rationalize the actions of a guy who's gotten two DUIs, this one extreme simply because he's a figurehead high up on their favorite team.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Wasnt it a Fourth of July party? That would qualify as an appropriate setting?

to get really drunk and then drive? No.

And you were talking about him just getting one or two... as if that happened.

The guy got an extreme DUI on a night when EVERYONE knows the police are out in full force. So not only was he stupid enough to drink enough to have a BAC of .19, but he was even dumber for driving that day in the first place. All of those decisions wrapped up in a bow make him a complete idiot, IMO.

And to be honest, it's not just being dumb. It's just being completely reckless with other's safety.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Stage 3 Alcoholism is defined by Legal Problems btw. Getting a DUI is the inability to control your Stage 1 and Stage 2 issues to the point it gets you legal problems.

This is what people consider a "Functioning alcoholic"

So the difference between taking an Uber and Driving is where you are in the 4 stages.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

to get really drunk and then drive? No.

And you were talking about him just getting one or two... as if that happened.

The guy got an extreme DUI on a night when EVERYONE knows the police are out in full force. So not only was he stupid enough to drink enough to have a BAC of .19, but he was even dumber for driving that day in the first place. All of those decisions wrapped up in a bow make him a complete idiot, IMO.

And to be honest, it's not just being dumb. It's just being completely reckless with other's safety.

It's worse on the 4th of July. You are so impaired you can't make the judgement to not drive on a day when they are searching for impaired drivers.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Huh? My dad is a recovered alcoholic. My parents got divorced in 1975 and his alcoholism was partly to blame for that. He's been recovered since 1993. This isn't stuff that's brand new from the last decade or so. SMH.

It wouldn't have taken a rocket scientist to realize that Keim had a problem with alcohol 22 years ago. Guarantee you that anyone who went to school with him knew he had an issue whether it was constant partying, binge drinking, or just steady drinking.

I seriously doubt it. In college I drank like a fish and got hammered every weekend like pretty much everyone that I knew in college back then. Keim would have blended right in with the majority of college students IMO. My roommate got snagged by the cops while Walking home from a party. He was less a block away from our apartment and ended up spending the night in the drunk tank. Dude ended up being the top of my engineering class and had a police record to boot.

None of the friends I keep in touch with drink like that anymore. Maybe I went to a different college or something but we had a keg or two in our yard every weekend or were at a friends place that did.

 

[ajcardfan]

I seriously doubt it. In college I drank like a fish and got hammered every weekend like pretty much everyone that I knew in college back then. Keim would have blended right in with the majority of college students IMO. My roommate got snagged by the cops while Walking home from a party. He was less a block away from our apartment and ended up spending the night in the drunk tank. Dude ended up being the top of my engineering class and had a police record to boot.

None of the friends I keep in touch with drink like that anymore. Maybe I went to a different college or something but we had a keg or two in our yard every weekend or were at a friends place that did.

That sounds very familiar to me. Sadly, lots of guys I know from that time ended up with a minor in alcoholism.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I seriously doubt it. In college I drank like a fish and got hammered every weekend like pretty much everyone that I knew in college back then. Keim would have blended right in with the majority of college students IMO. My roommate got snagged by the cops while Walking home from a party. He was less a block away from our apartment and ended up spending the night in the drunk tank. Dude ended up being the top of my engineering class and had a police record to boot.

None of the friends I keep in touch with drink like that anymore. Maybe I went to a different college or something but we had a keg or two in our yard every weekend or were at a friends place that did.

Agree with this and had a similar experience and to be honest, I have cut WAYYYYYYY back since then, but I'll still slip and have a binge night every once in a while. But what I won't do is get behind the wheel ANY night I know I'm going out drinking.

 

[BigRedRage]

is there any discussion of how this impacts the football operation and etc or are we just arguing about how ok it is to drink and drive?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Also I think you are missing the point of what I'm trying to say here. 22 years ago Keim had a DUI but wasn't diagnosed with Alcoholism because the research wasn't available at the time. Did Keim get the help he needed for Alcohol Dependency if that is what he has as I suspect? You don't just " learn your lesson" if you have AD. You need the proper treatment for it.

My uncle was diagnosed with AD about 10 years ago. He has been clean for the last decade but it was a difficult battle the first couple of years. The first step was admitting he had a problem so that he could get treatment.

Yeah I’m just not understanding how that applies to Keim not understanding he’s endangering people when he drinks and drives or that it’s illegal or being capable of understanding both because 22 years have passed. You lost me.

 

[StreetTruckinTitan]

jesus christ... REALLY? Michael Floyd's a pretty damn big dude also. and that BAC is relative to everyone.

This is infuriating. I can't believe how much people rationalize the actions of a guy who's gotten two DUIs, this one extreme simply because he's a figurehead high up on their favorite team.

Although I agree Keim made a couple of stupid mistakes, Im about the last person to point fingers at anyone. 'My hypocrisy only goes so far'