Arizona Cardinals GM Steve Keim cited for DUI on July 4

[speedy]

First I agreed oaken was harsh on solar. Solar has bared himself for discussion purposes not to be personally attacked.

That said, you do realize you just did the very thing you’re railing against others on here for. Spouting your experience as some level of authority for the point you want to prove. While also being sanctimonious against those that you’re troubled by their sanctimonium.

Finally, I think it’s lost on you that you’re railing on people for essentially calling out other people’s poor or dangerous actions. It’s not like people are criticizing people’s choices of team fandom, or political beliefs, or other personal items, but rather for actions dangerous to society or socially unacceptable. None of them claim to be perfect either. But you go on calling people out for being upset about drunk drivers. Sheesh.

I’ve got more things to do than play judge on ASFN today, but I’m not exactly seeing your POV, specifically where I protested any sort of authority. I’m confused, so please help me out.

I don’t think I’m calling people out for being upset about DD, but rather calling people out for not minding their own business. Specifically, being in the business of telling people if they have a problem or not; to use such arbitrary figures (2 beers, 5 beers, X beers x 2 hours= lush) is F’n ignorant.

Professionally I’m am a 24 year prehospital medical provider, well over 16k calls in my career. I’ve been on my fair share of DD accidents/collisions/decisions. While I may have my own personal stories to share, aside from my countless professional ones, I’m experienced enough to know when someone is just being a dick.

I wonder how many of you passionate souls A) volunteer your time for legislative work and B) have made it your life’s passion (aka, became an addiction counselor) in order to impact the “problem,” *you* profusely support on a freaking professional football forum.

I’ve been a member for 14 years. I’m pretty sure personal attacks are against the rules. Calling Solar7 a lush, inferring he is in denial about his “drinking problem,” and going so far as to judge the reasons for his failed relationship(s), is a personal attack. IMO.

Again, SK assumed responsibility, plead guilty (which, ANY lawyer could have EASILY reduced if he just laid low), paid out $200k, and took a 5 game suspension right at the peak of his go time (say what you want, but he is a very good garage sale shopper), and issued a statement fully acknowledging his mistake(s).

Many of you lack patience, and that lack of patience is slowly killing all of us.

 

[TJ]

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[Jetstream Green]

Please, please... please let actual football start already

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Again BIM, no judgement on you for not drinking, I'm more than happy for anyone who decides not to partake in something. But your complete lifetime abstinence from alcohol has you extremely off course on the "what are accepted drinking norms" scale. My best friend and I both went to ASU coming from Vegas. We both drank and partied like crazy, him maybe even moreso than me. Now, in our 30s, he maybe binge drinks by the definition of the term (I believe it is 5+ drinks in a single session) 3-4 times a month, but always has a designated driver, is at a bar in walking distance of home, or uses Uber. He maybe occasionally has a beer or two after coming home from work. He's never been in trouble. There's not a soul that would call him an alcoholic. But he and I used to sit in my dorm and polish off a bottle of Jack Daniels every night as 18 year olds.

"It wouldn't have taken a rocket scientist to realize that Keim had a problem with alcohol 22 years ago. Guarantee you that anyone who went to school with him knew he had an issue whether it was constant partying, binge drinking, or just steady drinking."

My point is, this is tacitly untrue. Most people in college are partying, binge drinking, steady drinking, and once they have a full time job, family, or other responsibilities, this goes by the wayside. But acting like most of Keim's peers probably knew he had a problem when they were doing the same amount of partying is just silly. I'm admitting to you guys that I have an issue with heavy drinking, but even still, people in my life insist that I don't.

Binge drinking and frequent drinking is seen as normal by most, unless it leaks into your work life, or has legal repercussions. But since you're a non-drinker, it's easier to judge from afar.

Well, the reason I do not drink is that I saw at an early age what these so-called drinking norms can lead to in people's lives. I've been around plenty of drinkers so do not mistake my choice to abstain as a lack of life experience in matters involving alcohol. I don't have to freebase cocaine to know it isn't a healthy choice. SMH. Plenty of family/friends really screwed up their lives with alcohol, drugs, etc. Just decided that kind of "life" wasn't for me. I am also a bit of a control freak and prefer to have full control of my faculties. I was around plenty of people who drank in high school and college, but they all either crashed at the person's house they got wasted at, got a ride from a designated driver (often me), or walked home. Especially in college - most lived in dorms or a rented home right next to campus. Drinking is up to the individual. Drinking and driving is endangering the lives of others and the punishment should be very severe.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

This thread's about Keim, not me, but I worry when people blame alcohol for bigger problems. Alcohol isn't evil. People making horrible decisions while under the influence are evil.

That's a weak statement. It blames the alcohol for Keim's (or anyone's drinking and driving) decision. He consciously made the decision to go out and drink heavily without planning ahead to have a designated driver, a cab, an Uber, a Lyft, etc. This wasn't his first rodeo. This is all on him, not the alcohol.

 

[Solar7]

lol....
you sir...are a lush. a normal ol person can easily go to a barbecue and only have two beers.... sounds like you think a six pack is a serving size,.. but they are designed to be shared.

the relationship thing... yeah dude,..it was the booze.
just re read what you said,.. she wanted to settle down, but you still want to party....now, it could also be that she just wasnt the right chick...of course... but most men/people...uh...gender unidentified bipedal organic life forms or what the **** ever, step away from the frat boy lifestyle before they are thirty...some slow learners take until around 33 or so.... but in every group there is always that one guy. the dude that thinks he is gonna be cool forever, thinks he is gonna be a baby hefner, living, partying,scoring the beautiful chicks one after the other while never realizing he fell into the world of pushing forty in a wrinkled suit with **** stained boxers on the floor.
there are no social situations in which consuming alcohol is required. when I was on the bar scene I used to talk to the waitress, have her bring me my cokes in a tall glass, with a cherry in it. looked just like a rum and coke, everyone thought I was drinking...still had fun but kept my head on straight and was able to drive home...

I am an alcoholic. I dont drink, dont even like the taste of booze. But I could not drink without getting drunk...anytime I started drinking I would continue until I was falling down drunk...excess every time. so I just stopped doing it. I stopped doing it by realizing I did not have to drink.
there are lots of benefits to being the guy not drinking. the biggest is seeing with clear eyes exactly how people act when they are

Cool man, thanks for discarding the concept that I could critically think past "she's an inoffensive option" because I drink. Nothing would make my heavy drinking better than settling for a girl who bores me out of my mind, and forcing the issue with kids. Sign me up for my picket fence.

 

[Solar7]

Thanks to @speedy and @Ouchie-Z-Clown for the support on what I felt was pretty unwarranted. I know Ouchie and I have disagreed throughout the thread, but he's reached out, which was really nice.

 

[Solar7]

Well, the reason I do not drink is that I saw at an early age what these so-called drinking norms can lead to in people's lives. I've been around plenty of drinkers so do not mistake my choice to abstain as a lack of life experience in matters involving alcohol. I don't have to freebase cocaine to know it isn't a healthy choice. SMH. Plenty of family/friends really screwed up their lives with alcohol, drugs, etc. Just decided that kind of "life" wasn't for me. I am also a bit of a control freak and prefer to have full control of my faculties. I was around plenty of people who drank in high school and college, but they all either crashed at the person's house they got wasted at, got a ride from a designated driver (often me), or walked home. Especially in college - most lived in dorms or a rented home right next to campus. Drinking is up to the individual. Drinking and driving is endangering the lives of others and the punishment should be very severe.

I have a family history of alcohol abuse. From as much as I know, my dad's really the only one in generations to moderate his drinking in an acceptable way, and I don't know it was always that way. But in a world where it's culturally accepted, and even encouraged, trying it was something I had to do. My drinking habits were the same of any American teen to start. Personally, I don't think my addiction would have formed if I hadn't forced it. I struggled with depression, extreme anxiety, and a certain event tipped me over the edge around the age of 17. By the time I made it to ASU, I'd forced myself into a dependency on alcohol, and I almost lost my scholarship for it.

I count my blessings that I've pulled myself into a more manageable and responsible version of my struggle, especially in the sense that I no longer demonize certain substances themselves... and recognize that people need help instead of judgement. For emphasis, I'll repeat that your desire to never drink is perfectly honorable from my perspective. But, they strap literal "beer goggles" on kids at family safety events these days to show a kid what it's like to have two beers, and it's not realistic. Neither is your perception of what two drinks does to a person.

In your mind, the man who has had a single Miller Lite has been spun in 12 circles, blindfolded, and cast off to pin the tail on the proverbial donkey.

You may not need to freebase cocaine to know it's a bad idea, but you might as well puff puff pass on a joint before you start sending people to the guillotine.

 

[Solar7]

That's a weak statement. It blames the alcohol for Keim's (or anyone's drinking and driving) decision. He consciously made the decision to go out and drink heavily without planning ahead to have a designated driver, a cab, an Uber, a Lyft, etc. This wasn't his first rodeo. This is all on him, not the alcohol.

There's no way in hell I'm blaming the alcohol here, or giving him a pass. My point is exactly yours - he is culpable for the decision to not plan ahead, and to let his judgement be ruined by drinking. You might have just misinterpreted what I wrote.

It is not the alcohol's fault for him being a total asshat.

 

[BigRedRage]

Uh yeah that’s just about the dumbest post about drunk driving I’ve ever read. Congrats. The fact that he took to the streets in that condition and endangered others made it a lot of other peoples problem beside Keim.

And are you actually bragging about driving sh*tfaced?!? I’m hoping you still don’t do that, and frankly if you do I hope you don’t kill anyone.

I'm not bragging about anything, I am stating that it doesn't automatically qualify you as an alcoholic. It qualifies you as stupid, yeah, I did a lot of stupid poo in my youth.

 

[BigRedRage]

Then it seems kinda stupid for you to blast someone if you’re not willing to work off of the same full set of data that they are.

No really, you just missed the context of what I was saying. And...I'm not overdramatic about everything. To each their own.

 

[BigRedRage]

Unless you, your family, or anyone you know happens to drive anywhere near him at any point. Then death might be you and yours' problem.

Sure.

and it happens every single day yet we don't sit here and discuss thousands of threads about how drunk driving is a problem in the country.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Sure.

and it happens every single day yet we don't sit here and discuss thousands of threads about how drunk driving is a problem in the country.

Uh isn’t that what we are doing?

 

[Jetstream Green]

I am drinking a beer right now

 

[Solar7]

I am drinking a beer right now

I'm assuming you also posted this from your phone while driving?

 

[speedy]

I am drinking a beer right now

Get help jet!

 

[Jetstream Green]

I'm assuming you also posted this from your phone while driving?

Actually from a ditch because as Speedy says I need help... there is no way I can get more beer stuck lol

 

[BigRedRage]

I am drinking and flying a plane right now while posting

 

[juza76]

Is he still in jail?
Maybe not bad at all for him, not alcool temptations, can drop some weight

 

[Jetstream Green]

I am drinking and flying a plane right now while posting

You're drunk... you are in Michael's helicopter

 

[ArizonaSportsFan]

Shower thought - Is driving under the (ANY) influence any different than firing a gun in a populated park, let's say. Didn't hit anyone. Just decided to fire it because needed to see if it worked and was "in control" enough to do it safely. Certainly is legal (depending, of course - just like drinking) to have the firearm. Becomes illegal at the point of making that decision to pull the trigger.

Just wondering if anyone else makes a similar equivalency.

To me, the crimes are similar. But "everyone" drinks so it seems to get the old "nod and wink" and "I understand. But hey, don't do that again."

 

[MrYeahBut]

Drinking and driving was a way of life for me for decades. I didn't care much about anything but drinking and drugging. If you're over the edge, you don't care. That's just the way it is. If I needed my fix, I just didn't care. I did what I had to do.

I knew I was wasting years of my life and endangering other people, but I didn't care. I don't wish that state of mind on anyone.

 

[Solar7]

Shower thought - Is driving under the (ANY) influence any different than firing a gun in a populated park, let's say. Didn't hit anyone. Just decided to fire it because needed to see if it worked and was "in control" enough to do it safely. Certainly is legal (depending, of course - just like drinking) to have the firearm. Becomes illegal at the point of making that decision to pull the trigger.

Just wondering if anyone else makes a similar equivalency.

To me, the crimes are similar. But "everyone" drinks so it seems to get the old "nod and wink" and "I understand. But hey, don't do that again."

No, because shooting a gun only has one purpose.

Maybe you could make the argument about a guy with a chainsaw recklessly cutting down some old rotting trees while there were people in the park. It certainly needs to happen, but it needs to be done with the right protections in place.

 

[BigRedRage]

No, because shooting a gun only has one purpose.

Target shooting?

Adreneline?

To kill?

To scare?



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[Solar7]

Target shooting?

Adreneline?

To kill?

To scare?



Sent from my LG-LS993 using Tapatalk

To kill or damage, yeah. I don't want to turn this into a gun debate - I own and enjoy guns, but it's not like guns don't have a primary use and not a lot of secondary ones that aren't intended to destroy.

Well...

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