Arizona Cardinals GM Steve Keim cited for DUI on July 4

[Dback Jon]

Curious why a third time is worse than a second time?

Maybe because one was 22 years ago when he was fresh out of college. A second one in his current position would mean he is incapable of learning.

 

[AZ Native]

The only "evidence" are the facts... What did you blow, and/or what was your blood alcohol content. You can't be arrested for drinking a beer. You will be arrested if you BAC is over .08.

Not true 82. You can be arrested for a BAC under .08. If you admit to drinking and were stopped because of swerving a little you can be arrested for DUI. It is the law.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Not true 82. You can be arrested for a BAC under .08. If you admit to drinking and were stopped because of swerving a little you can be arrested for DUI. It is the law.

Yes... but my question really was this: If you are pulled over because a cop didn't like the way you were driving, and he/she asks if you've been drinking, and you say "no," will that cop then NOT complete field sobriety testing, and/or take you in for a blood draw?
Is simply saying "no I haven't been drinking" all you have to say to get off??

 

[AZ Native]

Yes... but my question really was this: If you are pulled over because a cop didn't like the way you were driving, and he/she asks if you've been drinking, and you say "no," will that cop then NOT complete field sobriety testing, and/or take you in for a blood draw?
Is simply saying "no I haven't been drinking" all you have to say to get off??

Maybe not, but every DUI lawyer will tell you to say you have not been drinking. You are innocent until proven guilty. They will use your statement against you in a court of law.

 

[gimpy]

No, 82. Saying no will not get you off. Refusing to do the field tests will not get you off, either.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Maybe because one was 22 years ago when he was fresh out of college. A second one in his current position would mean he is incapable of learning.

uh... doesn't the current second DUI not only show he's incapable of learning, but is got WORSE as he "matured" over the years, especially considering this DUI was extreme?

guess for some people third time's the charm for DUIs... as long as they wear a jersey/rep your favorite team.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

It's certainly compromising if you admit to an illegal act.

You call it compromising. I call it telling the truth and complying with a request from a law enforcement officer.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Maybe because one was 22 years ago when he was fresh out of college. A second one in his current position would mean he is incapable of learning.

What?!? “Fresh out of college.” You mean the period of time during which you are supposed to be doing nothing but learning?!? That period? He wasn’t capable of learning then? Sorry, super lame in my opinion to give him that pass. What if it’s another 22 years before he gets another? We should just ignore both of the priors? PASSAGE OF TIME HAS NO IMPACT ON MAKING GOOD DECISIONS.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Maybe not, but every DUI lawyer will tell you to say you have not been drinking. You are innocent until proven guilty. They will use your statement against you in a court of law.

But can you end up in a “court of law” without having had a blood draw?
If you answered the cop with “Yea, I had a beer about an hour ago.” And then you took a breathalyzer or a blood draw and the results were fine, what’s the problem? And why would you end up in a court?

 

[DutchmanAZ]

Everyone likes to see justice come to someone else.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Maybe not, but every DUI lawyer will tell you to say you have not been drinking. You are innocent until proven guilty. They will use your statement against you in a court of law.

Okay so you say the lawyers tell you to lie to the police officer. I’m not sure that’s accurate or really that any attorney would admit to that. They certainly wouldn’t tell you to do so in court as that’s suborning perjury. You’d be advised to plead the 5th or not take the stand altogether. If an officer asks you a simple question in the field they aren’t trying to “trick” you. You can refuse to answer. It’s your right. Let’s see how that goes. Rather, don’t break the law and endanger innocents around you.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Everyone likes to see justice come to someone else.

Said another way, I want the streets to be safe for my 8 and 7 year old boys, my parents, my loved ones, my 3 year old niece. Keim’s actions show not only an indifference for their safety but a complete reckless disregard for it. So yeah it pisses me off. Seems weird that you seem unfazed. Would suck if his actions negatively impacted your family.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Okay so you say the lawyers tell you to lie to the police officer. I’m not sure that’s accurate or really that any attorney would admit to that. They certainly wouldn’t tell you to do so in court as that’s suborning perjury. You’d be advised to plead the 5th or not take the stand altogether. If an officer asks you a simple question in the field they aren’t trying to “trick” you. You can refuse to answer. It’s your right. Let’s see how that goes. Rather, don’t break the law and endanger innocents around you.

Here is what happens when you do not cooperate with an officer during a stop.

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[Solar7]

What?!? “Fresh out of college.” You mean the period of time during which you are supposed to be doing nothing but learning?!? That period? He wasn’t capable of learning then? Sorry, super lame in my opinion to give him that pass. What if it’s another 22 years before he gets another? We should just ignore both of the priors? PASSAGE OF TIME HAS NO IMPACT ON MAKING GOOD DECISIONS.

Not defending Keim. I don't want to. I have no excuses for the man. At all.

But, to this argument... I think you're almost a different human being from being fresh out of college into adulthood. At 22, you're making a dumb mistake, possibly because you are ignorant of the consequences. 22 year olds need a slap upside the head and need to be told to grow up. People in their 40s who get extreme DUIs on holiday weekends need genuine counseling and care.

My suspicion is that Keim drinks to escape from his insanely stressful job, or another huge void in his life. Very few people are wired to work like an NFL executive is. The fear of getting in legal trouble probably isn't enough to stop his drinking. Maybe the humiliation of sitting in front of cameras while trying to serve his sentence will be... trying to stare into a corner for what felt like a million minutes just to watch, much less to be in his skin.

I trend more toward sympathy, since I understand the issue... I absolutely can't cope with my career, and I see a counselor to try to cope without booze. Being publicly lambasted would probably just make me worse. But, again, it's why Uber is my BFF.

 

[Jetstream Green]

Here is what happens when you do not cooperate with an officer during a stop.

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Wow, it's Josh Rosen with his character flaw of being too smart...

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[MadCardDisease]

uh... doesn't the current second DUI not only show he's incapable of learning, but is got WORSE as he "matured" over the years, especially considering this DUI was extreme?

guess for some people third time's the charm for DUIs... as long as they wear a jersey/rep your favorite team.

Alcoholism is a disease. It's very difficult to break out of without help. I have had a few family members and friends who have battled alcoholism. The hardest part is to first get them to admit that they have a problem.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Not defending Keim. I don't want to. I have no excuses for the man. At all.

But, to this argument... I think you're almost a different human being from being fresh out of college into adulthood. At 22, you're making a dumb mistake, possibly because you are ignorant of the consequences. 22 year olds need a slap upside the head and need to be told to grow up. People in their 40s who get extreme DUIs on holiday weekends need genuine counseling and care.

My suspicion is that Keim drinks to escape from his insanely stressful job, or another huge void in his life. Very few people are wired to work like an NFL executive is. The fear of getting in legal trouble probably isn't enough to stop his drinking. Maybe the humiliation of sitting in front of cameras while trying to serve his sentence will be... trying to stare into a corner for what felt like a million minutes just to watch, much less to be in his skin.

I trend more toward sympathy, since I understand the issue... I absolutely can't cope with my career, and I see a counselor to try to cope without booze. Being publicly lambasted would probably just make me worse. But, again, it's why Uber is my BFF.

It’s possible to simultaneously have compassion for a man for whatever demons he’s fighting and to be disgusted by his lack of concern for the safety of those around him.

I’m not arguing that people are the same in their 40s as they were in their 20s but that doesn’t give him a pass. Just because he was dumber when he was 20 doesn’t mean he was incapable of learning from his mistake back then. Some of you who need a third strike seem to believe that he’s essentially incapable of even remembering he got a dui years ago. Something tells me he remembers simple addition and subtraction and some rudimentary manners and that stealing is wrong. And I’m sure he learned all of that a LOT longer ago than he got his first dui.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Wow, it's Josh Rosen with his character flaw of being too smart...

That is only considered a character flaw by the lower class of the USA. No where else.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Alcoholism is a disease. It's very difficult to break out of without help. I have had a few family members and friends who have battled alcoholism. The hardest part is to first get them to admit that they have a problem.

You’re right. But driving while intoxicated isn’t a disease. You can control whether you get behind the wheel. Solar is a great example. He explicitly states Uber is his best friend. And if you really can’t trust yourself, pony up for an interlock to ensure yiur bad decision making while drunk doesn’t kill someone else.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

That is only considered a character flaw by the lower class of the USA. No where else.

A) agreed
B) pretty sure you knew jet was being sarcastic, but best to be certain these days . . .

 

[MadCardDisease]

You’re right. But driving while intoxicated isn’t a disease. You can control whether you get behind the wheel. Solar is a great example. He explicitly states Uber is his best friend. And if you really can’t trust yourself, pony up for an interlock to ensure yiur bad decision making while drunk doesn’t kill someone else.

I'm not saying a DUI is a disease. Cheese was saying that Keim hadn't learned from his first mistake 22 years ago. However our understanding on alcohol dependence has changed drastically sense that first incident 22 years ago. I believe that Keim will be identified as potentially having Alcoholism this time around. The hope is that with this diagnosis he can get help with his condition and make the necessary changes to his lifestyle.


Alcoholism, or alcohol dependence, is a disease that causes

• Craving - a strong need to drink
• Loss of control - not being able to stop drinking once you've started
• Physical dependence - withdrawal symptoms
• Tolerance - the need to drink more alcohol to feel the same effect

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I'm not saying a DUI is a disease. Cheese was saying that Keim hadn't learned from his first mistake 22 years ago. However our understanding on alcohol dependence has changed drastically sense that first incident 22 years ago. I believe that Keim will be identified as potentially having Alcoholism this time around. The hope is that with this diagnosis he can get help with his condition and make the necessary changes to his lifestyle.


Alcoholism, or alcohol dependence, is a disease that causes

• Craving - a strong need to drink
• Loss of control - not being able to stop drinking once you've started
• Physical dependence - withdrawal symptoms
• Tolerance - the need to drink more alcohol to feel the same effect

Not being snarky but all four of those bullets were known 22 years ago. I’m pretty certain alcoholism was already being called a disease 22 years ago. You realize 22 years ago was 1996. That’s not exactly the dark ages. As a 25 year old (and thus one of keims contemporaries) in 1996 I knew not to drink and drive. And I would certainly remember the lesson I learned if I had gotten a dui. Shoot I still vividly recall the ticket I received when I was 17 and had kids hanging out my windows. I had to go before a judge. I was mortified. I would never allow anyone to behave that way in my car again for fear of reprisals. How some of you guys want to ignore or dismiss his original dui is beyond my comprehension.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Not being snarky but all four of those bullets were known 22 years ago. I’m pretty certain alcoholism was already being called a disease 22 years ago. You realize 22 years ago was 1998. That’s not exactly the dark ages.

Correct in the 1950s Alcoholism was first identified but it was also not widely accepted by many. However it wasn't until the past decade or so that through advances in Genetics and Neurobiology have we gained a full appreciation of the disease. What we know now about this disease is exponentially more than what we knew just a few decades ago.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Not being snarky but all four of those bullets were known 22 years ago. I’m pretty certain alcoholism was already being called a disease 22 years ago. You realize 22 years ago was 1998. That’s not exactly the dark ages. As a 27 year old in 1998 I knew not to drink and drive. And I would certainly remember the lesson I learned if I had gotten a dui. Shoot I still vividly recall the ticket I received when I was 17 and had kids hanging out my windows. I had to go before a judge. I was mortified. I would never allow anyone to behave that way in my car again for fear of reprisals. How some of you guys want to ignore or dismiss his original dui is beyond my comprehension.

Also I think you are missing the point of what I'm trying to say here. 22 years ago Keim had a DUI but wasn't diagnosed with Alcoholism because the research wasn't available at the time. Did Keim get the help he needed for Alcohol Dependency if that is what he has as I suspect? You don't just " learn your lesson" if you have AD. You need the proper treatment for it.

My uncle was diagnosed with AD about 10 years ago. He has been clean for the last decade but it was a difficult battle the first couple of years. The first step was admitting he had a problem so that he could get treatment.

 

[BillsCarnage]

Everyone likes to see justice come to someone else.

Yeah, that's the TMZ society today.

At this point the law and the Cards have dished out their punishments. As a fan you can opt to not support the Cards or even call them and voice your displeasure. To continually vilify Keim now is just self serving.