Arizona Cardinals GM Steve Keim cited for DUI on July 4

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Yeah, that's the TMZ society today.

At this point the law and the Cards have dished out their punishments. As a fan you can opt to not support the Cards or even call them and voice your displeasure. To continually vilify Keim now is just self serving.

In what way is it “self-serving?”

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I agree, never lie to a police officer or a request from a law enforcement officer. It is illegal to do otherwise. If anything is to be debated, do it in court.

My thoughts were how to do both and not incriminate oneself of a crime. The situation is going to play out regardless. This is where I started out with the water example as a way to truthfully answer the question without lying ... how much have you had to drink. However, this might escalate the situation although it shouldn't. Police should always remain professional.

After some thought, I think the best answer if one is guilty and prefers not incriminate oneself is to answer... I prefer not to answer that question.

I think that’s your only option.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Yeah I’m just not understanding how that applies to Keim not understanding he’s endangering people when he drinks and drives or that it’s illegal or being capable of understanding both because 22 years have passed. You lost me.

I was responding to BIM's statement:

It wouldn't have taken a rocket scientist to realize that Keim had a problem with alcohol 22 years ago.

I was just saying that Keim would have blended into my college just fine and no one would have thought twice about it.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

I seriously doubt it. In college I drank like a fish and got hammered every weekend like pretty much everyone that I knew in college back then. Keim would have blended right in with the majority of college students IMO. My roommate got snagged by the cops while Walking home from a party. He was less a block away from our apartment and ended up spending the night in the drunk tank. Dude ended up being the top of my engineering class and had a police record to boot.

None of the friends I keep in touch with drink like that anymore. Maybe I went to a different college or something but we had a keg or two in our yard every weekend or were at a friends place that did.

Yeah, I didn't have the typical college experience at ASU. Lived off campus, went to school full time, worked full time, paid for school on my own before I graduated (zero student loans), and never had any alcohol. Helped a friend of mine who was an RA by being a designated driver at some parties and a Super Bowl party. I was the guy at the party drinking out of a Thirstbuster cup that actually contained only soda.

Seems like Keim liked to party in college and never quit.

 

[TJ]

is there any discussion of how this impacts the football operation and etc or are we just arguing about how ok it is to drink and drive?

Yeah, I'm getting a little sick of the back-and-forth bickering about drunk driving and Keim's reputation. Feels like what needs to be said on the matter has been said from both sides.

Probably time to change the subject to how the team will operate without Keim for 5 weeks, or lock the thread.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Yeah, I'm getting a little sick of the back-and-forth bickering about drunk driving and Keim's reputation. Feels like what needs to be said on the matter has been said from both sides.

Probably time to change the subject to how the team will operate without Keim for 5 weeks, or lock the thread.

You can bow out and not read it any longer, too. Practice self control.

 

[BigRedRage]

That's far and away what I'm more curious about. If someone else takes the reigns and looks for late FA signings or we sit on our hands. If we continue negotiating with DJ, if he sits out, etc. So much to discuss but it seems this thread isn't good for it.

Yeah, I'm getting a little sick of the back-and-forth bickering about drunk driving and Keim's reputation. Feels like what needs to be said on the matter has been said from both sides.

Probably time to change the subject to how the team will operate without Keim for 5 weeks, or lock the thread.

Sent from my LG-LS993 using Tapatalk

 

[Cheesebeef]

That's far and away what I'm more curious about. If someone else takes the reigns and looks for late FA signings or we sit on our hands. If we continue negotiating with DJ, if he sits out, etc. So much to discuss but it seems this thread isn't good for it.

Sent from my LG-LS993 using Tapatalk

this is a big part of why I'm pissed as well. The GM of the team won't be with the team for, what... half of training camp when he needs to be watching who deserves to be on the team... with a first time head coach to boot?

That sucks outloud by itself not to mention the GM won't be able to tend to negotiations with DJ that you'd hope were settled before camp.

 

[Dback Jon]

You can bow out and not read it any longer, too. Practice self control.

We are thread-a-holics. Can't stop

 

[TJ]

You can bow out and not read it any longer, too. Practice self control.

Same for you. If you cannot advance the conversation beyond a lecture about drunk driving and lambasting Keim, then it might be time to check out.

The horse has been dead for a while, now.

 

[TJ]

this is a big part of why I'm pissed as well. The GM of the team won't be with the team for, what... half of training camp when he needs to be watching who deserves to be on the team... with a first time head coach to boot?

That sucks outloud by itself not to mention the GM won't be able to tend to negotiations with DJ that you'd hope were settled before camp.

Certainly, the timing of this suspension is not great. It would've been worse had it lasted beyond Preseason Game 4, when cut time is to happen.

At the same time, I'd have to imagine that Keim is going to watch each preseason game on TV and take note of what he sees

 

[TJ]

That's far and away what I'm more curious about. If someone else takes the reigns and looks for late FA signings or we sit on our hands. If we continue negotiating with DJ, if he sits out, etc. So much to discuss but it seems this thread isn't good for it.

Sent from my LG-LS993 using Tapatalk

Will be no "Keim-Time" specials to start. Maybe some "McDonough Stunnas"

(credit to Burns and Gambo for that)

 

[cardncubfan]

I'm pretty sure Steve Keim was at home the night of the 4th being he was arrested at 12:30am that morning. This is not defending or condemning Steve Keim or even liking a post. Just correcting a misconception. Carry on.

 

[Cheesebeef]

We are thread-a-holics. Can't stop

ha!

 

[Cheesebeef]

I'm pretty sure Steve Keim was at home the night of the 4th being he was arrested at 12:30am that morning. This is not defending or condemning Steve Keim or even liking a post. Just correcting a misconception. Carry on.

lol.

 

[AZ Native]

Okay so you say the lawyers tell you to lie to the police officer. I’m not sure that’s accurate or really that any attorney would admit to that. They certainly wouldn’t tell you to do so in court as that’s suborning perjury. You’d be advised to plead the 5th or not take the stand altogether. If an officer asks you a simple question in the field they aren’t trying to “trick” you. You can refuse to answer. It’s your right. Let’s see how that goes. Rather, don’t break the law and endanger innocents around you.

I'm not advocating doing it but here are just a few examples:

http://www.jaburgwilk.com/news-publications/5-things-to-do-when-you-are-stopped-for-a-dui

https://cantorduilawyers.com/what-to-do-if-stopped-for-dui

 

[BillsCarnage]

seems to me attacking people who aren't crazy about a two-time DUI offender as the leader of the team is pretty self-serving to me...

Really? Attacking? Dial down the drama Cheese.

Are you going to drive over from LA and protest Keim at the games? Are you going to cancel your ST's until they fire him? What do you hope to accomplish by constantly bashing him here? He's not reading this forum. You and everyone in this thread is disappointed by his actions. Eventually the mods will lock it because it's going nowhere and just posters bickering back and forth.

as is minimizing the offense by whataboutting consistently as you've done here.

Consistently?

Something, something howaboutish

How about if one of those times he actually killed someone??

is there any discussion of how this impacts the football operation and etc or are we just arguing about how ok it is to drink and drive?

Well, he's serving the 5 week suspension at one of the worst times. Not that others can't fill in, but camp is starting and this is when the front office watches the transaction wire. And DJ wants his contract.

In what way is it “self-serving?”

See the response above.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Really? Attacking? Dial down the drama Cheese.

Are you going to drive over from LA and protest Keim at the games? Are you going to cancel your ST's until they fire him? What do you hope to accomplish by constantly bashing him here? He's not reading this forum. You and everyone in this thread is disappointed by his actions. Eventually the mods will lock it because it's going nowhere and just posters bickering back and forth.

posts like the above are certainly going to help lessen the bickering back and forth.

But what do I know? I'm just a self-serving drama queen.

 

[BillsCarnage]

But what do I know? I'm just a self-serving drama queen.

I won't debate that.

 

[Gandhi]

Here in Scandinavia we don’t use BAC. We use permille, but as I understand it, it’s basically the same number, only with the comma moved one spot to the left, so a BAC of 0.19 is a permille of 1.9. You can probably hear that I am no mathematician, by the way.

If I am correct, a BAC of 0.19 is an insane amount in terms of driving. It affects your movement skills, it makes your speech sound kind of blurred and it even affects your nerve system. You have to drink a lot to reach a BAC like that.

Just to be clear, I think any drunk driving is crazy (and yes, even a small amount of alcohol will affect your reflexes and awareness), but I do think the stupidity becomes greater the more wasted a person is. I mean, to be that hammered as Keim was and still decide that driving is a great idea is even more stupid than I thought.

I could be wrong about this, but if I am not, then I honestly think they should have fired him. This is that big a deal and mistake, I think. No, I am not going to be critical of him all the time as a general manager, but I will never forget about this, and it will always cast a shadow on my opinion of him and his work. I am shocked about this, and in my opinion, it sends an extremely bad signal and it should not be tolerated. Five weeks out of work? Come on!

 

[speedy]

The fact he has already plead guilty, dropped $200k to MADD, and has been nothing short of honest about the entire incident, is enough for me. I’m not really sure what else anybody is wanting from him at this point.

I’m personally not a fan of “conduct” policies. I’ve seen people get charged, get found not guilty, yet still be punished in their careers as if the were guilty. I understand “we” as a society should decide what will/what will not be tolerated, but at some point people need to just sit back and mind their own business. Let the criminal system work, that’s what it’s there for.

 

[Solar7]

Yeah, I didn't have the typical college experience at ASU. Lived off campus, went to school full time, worked full time, paid for school on my own before I graduated (zero student loans), and never had any alcohol. Helped a friend of mine who was an RA by being a designated driver at some parties and a Super Bowl party. I was the guy at the party drinking out of a Thirstbuster cup that actually contained only soda.

Seems like Keim liked to party in college and never quit.

Again BIM, no judgement on you for not drinking, I'm more than happy for anyone who decides not to partake in something. But your complete lifetime abstinence from alcohol has you extremely off course on the "what are accepted drinking norms" scale. My best friend and I both went to ASU coming from Vegas. We both drank and partied like crazy, him maybe even moreso than me. Now, in our 30s, he maybe binge drinks by the definition of the term (I believe it is 5+ drinks in a single session) 3-4 times a month, but always has a designated driver, is at a bar in walking distance of home, or uses Uber. He maybe occasionally has a beer or two after coming home from work. He's never been in trouble. There's not a soul that would call him an alcoholic. But he and I used to sit in my dorm and polish off a bottle of Jack Daniels every night as 18 year olds.

"It wouldn't have taken a rocket scientist to realize that Keim had a problem with alcohol 22 years ago. Guarantee you that anyone who went to school with him knew he had an issue whether it was constant partying, binge drinking, or just steady drinking."

My point is, this is tacitly untrue. Most people in college are partying, binge drinking, steady drinking, and once they have a full time job, family, or other responsibilities, this goes by the wayside. But acting like most of Keim's peers probably knew he had a problem when they were doing the same amount of partying is just silly. I'm admitting to you guys that I have an issue with heavy drinking, but even still, people in my life insist that I don't.

Binge drinking and frequent drinking is seen as normal by most, unless it leaks into your work life, or has legal repercussions. But since you're a non-drinker, it's easier to judge from afar.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Again BIM, no judgement on you for not drinking, I'm more than happy for anyone who decides not to partake in something. But your complete lifetime abstinence from alcohol has you extremely off course on the "what are accepted drinking norms" scale. My best friend and I both went to ASU coming from Vegas. We both drank and partied like crazy, him maybe even moreso than me. Now, in our 30s, he maybe binge drinks by the definition of the term (I believe it is 5+ drinks in a single session) 3-4 times a month, but always has a designated driver, is at a bar in walking distance of home, or uses Uber. He maybe occasionally has a beer or two after coming home from work. He's never been in trouble. There's not a soul that would call him an alcoholic. But he and I used to sit in my dorm and polish off a bottle of Jack Daniels every night as 18 year olds.

"It wouldn't have taken a rocket scientist to realize that Keim had a problem with alcohol 22 years ago. Guarantee you that anyone who went to school with him knew he had an issue whether it was constant partying, binge drinking, or just steady drinking."

My point is, this is tacitly untrue. Most people in college are partying, binge drinking, steady drinking, and once they have a full time job, family, or other responsibilities, this goes by the wayside. But acting like most of Keim's peers probably knew he had a problem when they were doing the same amount of partying is just silly. I'm admitting to you guys that I have an issue with heavy drinking, but even still, people in my life insist that I don't.

Binge drinking and frequent drinking is seen as normal by most, unless it leaks into your work life, or has legal repercussions. But since you're a non-drinker, it's easier to judge from afar.

Binge drinking is “normal” for college age and 20-something year olds. Binge drinking 3-4 times per month as. 30 something or older is typically considered a problem, not “normal.” And that’s coming from someone who had an extremely robust social life through age 44 (pre kids and single). And when I say “robust” I mean a social life most would envy.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Again BIM, no judgement on you for not drinking, I'm more than happy for anyone who decides not to partake in something. But your complete lifetime abstinence from alcohol has you extremely off course on the "what are accepted drinking norms" scale. My best friend and I both went to ASU coming from Vegas. We both drank and partied like crazy, him maybe even moreso than me. Now, in our 30s, he maybe binge drinks by the definition of the term (I believe it is 5+ drinks in a single session) 3-4 times a month, but always has a designated driver, is at a bar in walking distance of home, or uses Uber. He maybe occasionally has a beer or two after coming home from work. He's never been in trouble. There's not a soul that would call him an alcoholic. But he and I used to sit in my dorm and polish off a bottle of Jack Daniels every night as 18 year olds.

"It wouldn't have taken a rocket scientist to realize that Keim had a problem with alcohol 22 years ago. Guarantee you that anyone who went to school with him knew he had an issue whether it was constant partying, binge drinking, or just steady drinking."

My point is, this is tacitly untrue. Most people in college are partying, binge drinking, steady drinking, and once they have a full time job, family, or other responsibilities, this goes by the wayside. But acting like most of Keim's peers probably knew he had a problem when they were doing the same amount of partying is just silly. I'm admitting to you guys that I have an issue with heavy drinking, but even still, people in my life insist that I don't.

Binge drinking and frequent drinking is seen as normal by most, unless it leaks into your work life, or has legal repercussions. But since you're a non-drinker, it's easier to judge from afar.

As Ouchie suggested, Binge-Drinking into your 30's and perhaps beyond, 3-4 times per month can easily be or quickly become a serious problem. A few questions:

- What is your/his performance like at work? Is it merely getting by? Or, are you/him falling short of where you would like to be/thought you would be, by this time in your life?

- What are your/his relationships like? Does your/his closest friendships center around alcohol? Or, can you/he be somewhere with people and deeply enjoy the experience of being together without any drinks?

- What are your/his relationships like with women? Can you/he only engage in deeper, more meaningful dialogue only if you/he have consumed alcohol? Have you/he been able to establish any long-term girlfriend relationships that might lead to a longer-term/lifelong relationship (marriage?)?

- What are you/him like when you're alone? Can you/he enjoy time alone without drinking?

Anyway, I think most would agree that frequent/regular binge drinking well past college is very problematic, no matter that it's done close to home, or, that Uber is always used...

 

[Solar7]

Binge drinking is “normal” for college age and 20-something year olds. Binge drinking 3-4 times per month as. 30 something or older is typically considered a problem, not “normal.” And that’s coming from someone who had an extremely robust social life through age 44 (pre kids and single). And when I say “robust” I mean a social life most would envy.

Really? "Binge drinking" is five beers. You really think it's a wild problem to be out 3-4 nights in a month and have five beers? That's a typical night out for anyone who doesn't have to come home for kids, in my opinion. Maybe I'm wildly off here and just surrounding myself with the wrong people, but even the most successful and responsible people I know will drink at least five drinks if they're "going out." Whether it be a friend's birthday, a work event, a BBQ... I just can't see this as a problem.

As Ouchie suggested, Binge-Drinking into your 30's and perhaps beyond, 3-4 times per month can easily be or quickly become a serious problem. A few questions:

- What is your/his performance like at work? Is it merely getting by? Or, are you/him falling short of where you would like to be/thought you would be, by this time in your life?

- What are your/his relationships like? Does your/his closest friendships center around alcohol? Or, can you/he be somewhere with people and deeply enjoy the experience of being together without any drinks?

- What are your/his relationships like with women? Can you/he only engage in deeper, more meaningful dialogue only if you/he have consumed alcohol? Have you/he been able to establish any long-term girlfriend relationships that might lead to a longer-term/lifelong relationship (marriage?)?

- What are you/him like when you're alone? Can you/he enjoy time alone without drinking?

Anyway, I think most would agree that frequent/regular binge drinking well past college is very problematic, no matter that it's done close to home, or, that Uber is always used...

-Performance
He's at the Director level at a high profile political analytics firm. I'm right below the Director level as the head of the Advertising team of a Fortune 500 company. We're both killing it. Unfortunately, part of what keeps my drinking up is actually work related pressure with vendor relationships. I'm expected to keep up these relationships, keep costs down, make friends with people, and all of that involves having them in town and "doing the Vegas thing." I'm probably going to move to a contract job outside of the industry because it's wearing on me.

Edit: I forgot to say - I'm far and beyond past where I ever thought I'd get in my career in my entire life, much less my early 30s. Even though I got a full ride to school and had a bunch of academic success, I pretty much figured out I'd cap out around $50k a year and maybe be some kind of assistant to the regional manager at a paper company or whatever. I always wanted to be a writer, but mom and dad said absolutely not, and now I work with marketing numbers and ad tech. Ironically, they used to try to kick me off the internet, because it was an absolute waste... and it's where I've made my name.

-Relationships
As far as friendships go, he and I can do things sober, I have completely sober friends, he has sober friends. It's hard to find things to do as a single male in your 30s that don't involve going to the bar, but I try to do things with friends that don't need alcohol. Yesterday I saw a movie with a buddy, tonight I'm going bowling. Because I'm a heavy drinker, I had a beer at the movie and we'll probably split a pitcher while bowling, but it's not like I'm sitting in a dive bar every night with the same group of people. I'm definitely the drinker of the group and will inject alcohol in when it might not be needed. Most of my buddies are supportive of me whether I'm drinking or not. My best friend? He also has a diverse set of friends and will gladly turn down alcohol to go kayaking or something.

-Women
Whoa, way to presume our sexuality!
Seriously though, he's been in two very long term cohabiting relationships, and he's functionally married to the girl he's with now, although they don't want to jump through most of the hoops to make it official, or have kids. Dude has a healthy, supportive life, and a dog.

I personally have my own relationship issues, but I don't think they're related to alcohol. My last relationship ended because she couldn't keep up with me, and I felt like she was dragging me down. She wanted to watch Netflix every night and go to bed, I wanted to keep stimulated and social. She loved me, I didn't love her. But in our relationship, I cut my drinking severely. I've never really been around successful relationships and even though I do just fine with women, I don't really like anything that restricts my autonomy, and don't think I want to be in something as serious as marriage.

-Alone
As far as I know, he doesn't have problems with drinking when alone. He's not alone much, since his girl works from home, though. He doesn't seem to have a problem with that. Like I had posted, maybe he has a beer or two after work, or they walk down the street for dinner and some drinks. Personally though, I do most of my heavy drinking at home. On an evening when I'm off at 5, I come home and drink 6-9 beers, and go to bed. I just got home, wrote this post, and I'm having a beer now. In two hours, I'll call an Uber to come pick me up so I don't have the option to drive, and go bowling.