Around the League (Offseason)

[cly2tw]

I suppose that's how Harden got a five year deal?
Unlike you, I am no expert on the new CBA, but I think you are thinking of a restricted free agent situation, which is a four year deal because a different team can only sign RFAs to a four-year offer sheet. In Howard situation (much like the Harden situation) players sign a new contract with their current team (up to five years) and then they are traded.

Harden was not a FA when he was traded, he was in his 4th year on rookie contract. He got an extension in Houston after the trade.

 

[SirStefan32]

Ah, you are right.

 

[carey]

Ah, you are right.

I am not an expert but I follow Larry Coon on twitter and he's an expert so I listen to him talk about the CBA constantly. I know what a s&t is and I know there are new rules for s&t's in the new cba. Especially with teams over the tax. And yes Harden was traded before he became FA. He was also the Rockets one "designated player" for five year max deal off of rookie contract which teams are only allowed one of.

p.s.. sorry for sounding like a butthole earlier.

 

[carey]

I suppose that's how Harden got a five year deal?
Unlike you, I am no expert on the new CBA, but I think you are thinking of a restricted free agent situation, which is a four year deal because a different team can only sign RFAs to a four-year offer sheet. In Howard situation (much like the Harden situation) players sign a new contract with their current team (up to five years) and then they are traded.

He's a really good follow if you want to know about CBA stuff. Problem is that he works for the Lakers so it's like 50% Lakers talk on his feed, which can get super annoying.

‏@LarryCoon: Sign-and-trade rules in current CBA limit to 4 years and 4.5% raises -- same as if he signs with Hou directly.

 

[elindholm]

There's also cbafaq.com, which is all Coon's. It's question 89 there.

 

[Gaddabout]

Trying to rationalize what might go on inside the mind of an NBA player these days is like trying to rationalize what a 3-year-old might do in a similar situation.

If you just assume they're going to do the most brazen, selfish thing possible, you'll be right 85 percent of the time. Any kind of conclusion that requires foresight, insight and institutional knowledge should just be thrown out the window and assumed to be not under consideration.

 

[Gee!]

Donald may have not wanted Howard, but Kobe sure does act like he did.. Feeling rejected.. Haha

http://www.tmz.com/2013/07/06/kobe-bryant-lakers-dwight-howard-rockets-twitter/

 

[D-Dogg]

IMO, the Lakers plan is not just 2014. They have protected their salary cap like crazy for 2014.

I think they are going to take their 2014 draft pick (hopefully they suck out loud this season), add a max player or force other teams to match a young max (George, Wall) or poison pill a contract on a guy like Kyrie, and then in 2015 go forward with acquiring max guys. 2015 is going to be a bonanza for FA and I think LA is going to go the route of try for Lebron in 2014, and if not, build the foundation to add 1-2 max contracts in 2015.

Regarding the draft pick, the 2015 one is 1-5 protected:

The first round pick will be conveyed no sooner than 2015 due to the Ted Stepien rule. It is protected 1-5 in 2015, protected 1-3 in 2016 and 2017, and unprotected in 2018.

If the Lakers don't land a LeBron in 2014, and decide to sit on the money, they might get in that 1-5 range. But even in that worst case scenario, the pick for 2015 won't be going to the Suns if they suck out loud, or it won't be good if they Lakers swing some 2014 talent. Most likely, Suns will get a pick in the teens.


Bottom line, the team is going to get younger, wipe the slate clean and start over. Which is a great position to be in, IMO. Instead of being stuck with aging players to build around, they will be able to build from the ground up. This allows them a lot of flexibility to build a solid young roster, similar to what's going on in Golden State (love that squad).

I'd be ecstatic about that direction, personally, if Jerry Buss were still running the team. Jim Buss...eh. Maybe Jeannie can take over.

 

[Phrazbit]

IMO, the Lakers plan is not just 2014. They have protected their salary cap like crazy for 2014.

I think they are going to take their 2014 draft pick (hopefully they suck out loud this season), add a max player or force other teams to match a young max (George, Wall) or poison pill a contract on a guy like Kyrie, and then in 2015 go forward with acquiring max guys. 2015 is going to be a bonanza for FA and I think LA is going to go the route of try for Lebron in 2014, and if not, build the foundation to add 1-2 max contracts in 2015.

Regarding the draft pick, the 2015 one is 1-5 protected:



If the Lakers don't land a LeBron in 2014, and decide to sit on the money, they might get in that 1-5 range. But even in that worst case scenario, the pick for 2015 won't be going to the Suns if they suck out loud, or it won't be good if they Lakers swing some 2014 talent. Most likely, Suns will get a pick in the teens.


Bottom line, the team is going to get younger, wipe the slate clean and start over. Which is a great position to be in, IMO. Instead of being stuck with aging players to build around, they will be able to build from the ground up. This allows them a lot of flexibility to build a solid young roster, similar to what's going on in Golden State (love that squad).

I'd be ecstatic about that direction, personally, if Jerry Buss were still running the team. Jim Buss...eh. Maybe Jeannie can take over.

Having to match the 4 year max contract that the Lakers could offer would almost certainly save the likes of Cleveland and Indy money, they would do it in a heart beat.

Golden State built mostly through the draft, seeing as the Lakers gave away every pick they could for the next 5 years to get Nash and Dwight I dont see them building that way unless they go for some bizarre 'tank every other season' strategy.

They'd have to let Kobe walk in order to sign 2 max guys in 2014, I dont see that happening. IMO its LeBron or bust for them, and I dont see them as a likely destination as they will have an aging Kobe and nothing else for him to play next to. Gotta hope LeBron is really really shallow and wants to live in Hollywood, make movies or some such nonsense.

But in all likelihood, given the new CBA and the Lakers tossing away of their picks, they are in for a long rebuild. Unless Stern rigs the draft... which would surprise no one.

 

[SirStefan32]

Having to match the 4 year max contract that the Lakers could offer would almost certainly save the likes of Cleveland and Indy money, they would do it in a heart beat.

Golden State built mostly through the draft, seeing as the Lakers gave away every pick they could for the next 5 years to get Nash and Dwight I dont see them building that way unless they go for some bizarre 'tank every other season' strategy.

They'd have to let Kobe walk in order to sign 2 max guys in 2014, I dont see that happening. IMO its LeBron or bust for them, and I dont see them as a likely destination as they will have an aging Kobe and nothing else for him to play next to. Gotta hope LeBron is really really shallow and wants to live in Hollywood, make movies or some such nonsense.

But in all likelihood, given the new CBA and the Lakers tossing away of their picks, they are in for a long rebuild. Unless Stern rigs the draft... which would surprise no one.

Don't think for one second that the Lakers will give Kobe another contract. They weren't afraid to get rid of Shaq, they will not be afraid to not extend Kobe.

They'll find a way to sign best free agents. Pick we get in 2015 is not going to be a good one.

 

[Phrazbit]

Don't think for one second that the Lakers will give Kobe another contract. They weren't afraid to get rid of Shaq, they will not be afraid to not extend Kobe.

They'll find a way to sign best free agents. Pick we get in 2015 is not going to be a good one.

I expect it to be in the late teens, early 20s because the Lakers will have overpaid to sign some good but not great player(s) next offseason. And yes, I fully expect them to resign Kobe, unless he retires. Ol Dr Buss is gone and his half-wit son is running the show. I bet Kobe signs a 3 year 65 million dollar deal next summer.

But if you're right and they dont keep Kobe then I think they will be really damn bad in 2015. If they've just kicked their generational player to the curb and are appealing to free agents with a 41 year old Steve Nash, Robert Ebanks and Darrus Morris... then they are going to struggle to sign anyone interested in more than just a big paycheck.

 

[D-Dogg]

http://www.latimes.com/sports/basketball/nba/lakers/la-sp-plaschke-howard-20130706,0,3744757.column

I hate this guy, but he's dead on the money here.

 

[Dalbrin]

If the Lakers end up with Wiggins, or Lebron, I think I'd throw up in my mouth a little. If they get BOTH, then I'm out. There's hockey to watch during NBA season, and the Yotes are sticking around for at least a few years.

 

[Phrazbit]

lol, the secretly Lakers didnt want him?

Talk about a jilted lover. Laker fans need to pull their heads out of their asses. Barring a miracle signing of LeBron next summer (which probably would be more likely with Dwight on board), this has been a complete disaster for the Lakers. Their draft stocks are in ruin, they have no one under 30 worth a damn on their entire roster and their older players have serious injury concerns. They NEEDED Dwight to stay, even he is is childish and stupid. He was the only thing that gave them defensive legitimacy and has bad as his post game is, 17 points on 57% shooting is something every team in the league would kill for.

But now they're supposedly better off without him, despite having no 1st rounder this year, in 2015 or 2017.

But hey... they will have cap space... and everyone wants to play for the Lakers...

oh...

wait...

 

[Mainstreet]

Josh Smith agrees to 4 year, 56M dollar deal with Pistons.

IMO, that is a lot of money for Josh Smith.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/9454803/detroit-pistons-give-josh-smith-4-years-56m-sources-say

 

[Dalbrin]

Pistons usually go through a decade of vomit worthy basketball before putting a championship caliber team together for two or three years. They should be about due for their next run, but this Smith signing is making me think that pattern is going to end.

 

[D-Dogg]

lol, the secretly Lakers didnt want him?

Talk about a jilted lover. Laker fans need to pull their heads out of their asses. Barring a miracle signing of LeBron next summer (which probably would be more likely with Dwight on board), this has been a complete disaster for the Lakers. Their draft stocks are in ruin, they have no one under 30 worth a damn on their entire roster and their older players have serious injury concerns. They NEEDED Dwight to stay, even he is is childish and stupid. He was the only thing that gave them defensive legitimacy and has bad as his post game is, 17 points on 57% shooting is something every team in the league would kill for.

But now they're supposedly better off without him, despite having no 1st rounder this year, in 2015 or 2017.

But hey... they will have cap space... and everyone wants to play for the Lakers...

oh...

wait...

They brought D'Antoni to the meetings with Dwight, when Dwight made it clear he didn't like his system. Lakers didn't press Howard much at all.

And no, trying to build around a heartless, aloof center as your franchise is not wise. I'm much happier with cap space to build from scratch, rather than trying to piecemeal a team around a guy with terrible post moves, a penchant for fingerpointing and a reluctance to improve his game.

"I had a real good meeting with (Howard) when he first came to L.A.," Abdul-Jabbar said. "He was like, 'Yeah' (indicating a willingness to be coached). That was the last time I spoke with him. ... He's charming, he's charismatic, very nice young man. Maturity-wise, he doesn't get it."

What if Howard had a sky hook?

"At least he'd have an offensive move. He gets the ball on offense, oh my God, he doesn't know what to do. It's usually a turnover, people come and take the ball from him or tie his arms up. Offensively, he doesn't get it. Hasn't made any progress. We (the Lakers, when Abdul-Jabbar was a special assistant coach) played them in '09, and when I saw him this past season, he was the same player."

The Lakers chose Dantoni over D12, simple as that. That's mindboggling when it comes down to it. Says a lot about what they thought Dwight would bring them. But KAJ nailed it...the guy is terrible in the post, has no moves and gets stripped over and over again. Then he misses his free throws. His defense is outstanding, but he's an offensive liability. Shockingly, he is built to play in the pick and roll well, but he wants to post up. Several sequences last season had Nash frustrated with Howard because he didn't do what was expected.

He's not a guy you build a team around, and to be honest, resigning him would be committing to building a team around him to contend with until 2020. I am MUCH more comfortable scrapping it all and building a new team, because Dwight does not bring titles. And if he wanted titles, he'd have forced his way to Golden State to be with Curry, Iggy, Lee. that's a better lineup than Houston can put out there, and far better than the Lakers can put out there right now. Harden couldn't win a chip with Durant, Ibaka and Westbrook...Harden + D12 isn't an improvement over that team.

Dwight said he can't wait to learn post moves from McHale..LOL. Said McHale has a million post moves. That's 9,999,999 more than Dwight. Houston is said to have told him they'd build a post offense around him. Sweet...he has no post game.

It's not being a jilted lover...it's being the lucky dude that was somehow able to slip the clutches of a psychotic crazy ex who finally found another target to obsess over. You then realize you were lucky as hell, and the sex wasn't that great. Orlando fans tried to tell me what we were getting into but I was a big D12 fan and was ecstatic to see him come to LA. That ended rather quickly - he was painful to watch, and I'm glad the Lakers didn't seem to want to keep him around all that much either.

 

[D-Dogg]

Josh Smith agrees to 4 year, 56M dollar deal with Pistons.

IMO, that is a lot of money for Josh Smith.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/9454803/detroit-pistons-give-josh-smith-4-years-56m-sources-say

I thought that Smith was going to go to Houston to join Howard. Surprised he chose the Pistons.

 

[Magnus]

Pistons get Josh Smith for 4 years, $56 million.

Also, OJ Mayo signed with the Bucks.

So, who's left on the FA list who would be considered a 'big' signing besides Ellis?

 

[Gee!]

If Lakers get LBJ.. I am no longer a LBJ fan.. Half the reason I like LBJ is because he pisses off Lakers fans..

 

[D-Dogg]

Don't worry, I'll not be excited to sign LBJ either. Which means he'll be a Laker. We'll get him at 30, when his athleticism starts to wane and he'll not ever live up to the promise under the expectations of LA.

So you win there too.

 

[D-Dogg]

Just for fun, a smattering of my posts from the 2012-13 Lakers thread in the smack shack...there's no "jilted" in my comments on D12 leaving. Not in the least.

Whatever, Dwight is garbage. He's a petulant child and fumbles the ball away more than Kwame Brown.

Dwight doesn't have experience playing THROUGH injuries. He's playing WITH injuries and that's a very different thing.

And Dwight never has had anyone pushing him, period. He hardly pushes himself.

If the Lakers don't trade him, they are making a mistake. You can't build around that guy. He is a finger pointer and lacks drive. And I really wanted him here, having coveted him since before he was drafted, but he's absolutely changed every concept I ever had about him.

Kobe will be gone in a couple of years, and Dwight is not the centerpiece of a team. Especially if he never recovers from the back injury.

Kobe out of the picture, cheese. I don't want to build a team around Dwight. He's been flat out awful. And on top of it, he's been whiny. All while getting stripped over and over, bricking free throws and blowing layups.

Has nothing to do with Kobe. Has to do with the fact that Emperor D12 has no effing clothes, and I'm shocked to see it.

Whatever, there is nothing wrong in there. Dwight doesn't get it yet. LA didn't get him to smile and talk about how this is bananas, and doesn't even feel like real life. They brought him in to dominate. He has failed thus far. Kobe is pushing him, sure, but the LAKERS expectation is the huge push.

Try again, haters. While you are at it, light a fire under Dwight's ass, please, or he's going to be bounced.

I don't care what anyone says, Dwight sucks and is a huge ***.

Dwight still being a whiny bitch. Argues with Nash on the floor because he wanted a lob and not the bounce pass, when he should have moved his ass to help Nash out when he was trapped on the play. SMH.

If it wasn't for defense, Dwight would be absolutely useless out there. Another pansy ass weak layup in the first Q had me rolling my eyes.

I don't really CARE what Howard is going through physically. I do know that he has chemistry problems with everyone on the team, gets stripped too often, tries layups instead of dunks, and gets outrebounded like crazy. I do know that he can't post up down low, and when he does get position, he has no post moves at all. And when he does get close to the rim, a quick foul on him is as good as a turnover since he's bricking his free throws. That's what I CARE about. Not his pain tolerance.

This is the guy that we are supposed to be looking at as the future leader of the team, that will be the centerpiece when Kobe is done, that will be the guy the team is built around. His audition is failing. When he's talking about three years and Kobe and Nash are looking at the retirement horizon, he simply isn't there mentally. I have no trust in him as a leader, and that has NOTHING to do with his physical pain.

Tim Duncan must lack it, because sitting out when cleared to play, in the PLAYOFFS, definitely shows a lack of desire to win. But at least Duncan had proven his value to his team and they all knew that when he was on the floor, he gave it all. Dwight hasn't done that and has chemistry issues with the group, so sitting out is even worse.

Dwight flat out sucks this year. He gets stripped constantly, all game long. He makes Kwame Brown's hands look gooood.

Pau and Howard can't be on the court at the same time, it is known.

And honestly, I don't even care if he leaves. Holy crap has he been terrible. He's weak and useless.

we both know that... but he doesn't and that's all that matters to a guy as stupid as Dwight. if y'all don't win a chip in the next two years with Kobe (which I do think is still very possible that you do), then Dwight (assuming he stays) will eventually become the the biggest Laker bust of all time, IMO. He will never be an Alpha Dog superstar champion IMO because he doesn't work on his game. For him to still be so limited offensively makes zero sense and he ain't a guy who can take you to a title. he's a perfect number 2 banana who thinks he's top dog.

Last one from Cheese is awesome...sums up why I'm not bothered that he's gone.

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/howard-495416-nash-lakers.html

That was probably where I was 100% against D12. I remember the game, and the play, very clearly. When you can't even get on with Nash and point fingers at him, you suck. Nash kept that damn play alive with hard ball busting work, and D12 left him in the lurch, then bitched about where the ball was placed (the only spot Nash could have conceivably delivered it). Dude refused to adjust, and he had tons of time to.

 

[D-Dogg]

Isn't Bryant out until January at the very earliest? No amount of motivation can accelerate recovery from an Achilles rupture.

Who the hell knows. He's already putting up jumpers in the gym. We'll see how soon he can run. One would think he'd be out until January, but he's way ahead of schedule right now.

That's right around the time when the real NBA season starts, which is when San Antonio starts winning every game.

https://twitter.com/ANDRESLANDIN24/status/346004699322920960/photo/1

He's already jogging. WTF? KB gonna get lots of PED testing this season. I know jogging is a long way from cutting and moving on a basketball court, but he's really working well. I am more concerned with him injuring himself during recovery by being too aggressive than surprised by him coming back in late Nov/Dec.

 

[SirStefan32]

I am not surprised that Kobe is already jogging. He will come back way too soon and screw himself over by getting hurt again. Sit out the season, man- your team isn't going anywhere this year with or without you.

 

[elindholm]

I'm no athlete, but I did rupture my Achilles, so I have some idea what the issues are. The tendon heals fairly quickly, but then the issue is regaining strength and flexibility, since the lower leg has to be immobilized and thus atrophies while the tendon heals. In my case, the injury wasn't properly diagnosed for several weeks, so I built up permanent scar tissue, and obviously I'm not going to rebuild muscle as fast as someone like Bryant. But low-impact things like jogging and biking early in the rehab process really shouldn't be too dangerous, at least as it was explained to me.