Around the League (Offseason)

[D-Dogg]

Guys, don't let D-Dogg troll you. He's saying that the Lakers will be a bottom-feeder just to get a rise out of you. This is a below-average roster until Bryant comes back, to be sure, but they'll still win 35-40 games.

Might have started that way, but then when I rolled out that roster I threw up in my mouth a little bit and it tasted like lottery.

 

[D-Dogg]

You're kidding right? Of course players have already entered the league having grown up idolizing Lebron. BTW, living just 60 miles east of Laker land and for more than 6 years now I've been seeing more Lebron stuff than I have Kobe. If you don't believe me, hang out at Bobby Bonds park in Riverside and tell me what you see.

Of course, in the last six years LeBron has been peaking and Kobe has been slowing. That means about as much as a cup of coffee in the morning.

 

[Cheesebeef]

that's for sure, can't be argued.

Dude has ruined everything he's touched. Doubt he can ruin this franchise though...I don't think the family will let him.

Doesn't the Buss family remind you a bit of arrested development though?

I wonder if Jim is to the Lakers what Billy Bowtie was to the Cardinals. One can only hope.

 

[devilalum]

Of course, in the last six years LeBron has been peaking and Kobe has been slowing. That means about as much as a cup of coffee in the morning.

That's just gonna get worse. Kobe is DONE. No way he comes back from this injury as anything but a shell of his former self.

 

[Errntknght]

The Lakers have some question marks: how long will Kobe miss and how well will he play; will Jordan Hill be the same post injury? There's also Antawn Jamison who might retire (he's 37). Earl Clark signed with another team, so the question there is who will replace him. Dwight Howard leaving probably won't hurt them much except in the drama department. If they decide to tank they could give us and the Pels a run for our money.

Frankly, I'm a little worried about us winning too many games if we don't somehow get rid of Gortat, and to a lesser extent Scola. With those two guys and the addition of Bledsoe we're a better team than last year. I'd also hazard the guess that Goodwin will be more of a positive than Wes Johnson and that Len will contribute more than Haddadi. You have to figure Marshall and Markeiff will improve small amounts, too. Last but not least we have a better coach.

Lets see, we're losing Duds but he had a kind of down year last season so substituting Butler won't make a big change. I don't know about Jermain O'Neal, it will make losing a bit easier if he doesn't return but I haven't heard what he's going to do.

For the most part I agree with Phrazbit's assessment of the 'competition' but the team most likely to screw up our chances in the '14 draft is the Suns themselves. With our current roster all we need is one thing to go unexpectedly well and we're looking at 33+ wins.

 

[D-Dogg]

That's just gonna get worse. Kobe is DONE. No way he comes back from this injury as anything but a shell of his former self.

Eh, no. But thanks for playing. Really.

Jeez.

 

[D-Dogg]

I wonder if Jim is to the Lakers what Billy Bowtie was to the Cardinals. One can only hope.

Worse, but the rest of his family knows it and won't let him completely destroy the franchise. Dangerously close, sure...but they will rip his throat out before allowing him to destroy the golden goose.

 

[Sci Fi]

Frankly, I'm a little worried about us winning too many games if we don't somehow get rid of Gortat, and to a lesser extent Scola. With those two guys and the addition of Bledsoe we're a better team than last year. I'd also hazard the guess that Goodwin will be more of a positive than Wes Johnson and that Len will contribute more than Haddadi. You have to figure Marshall and Markeiff will improve small amounts, too. Last but not least we have a better coach.

Lets see, we're losing Duds but he had a kind of down year last season so substituting Butler won't make a big change. I don't know about Jermain O'Neal, it will make losing a bit easier if he doesn't return but I haven't heard what he's going to do.

For the most part I agree with Phrazbit's assessment of the 'competition' but the team most likely to screw up our chances in the '14 draft is the Suns themselves. With our current roster all we need is one thing to go unexpectedly well and we're looking at 33+ wins.

You can stop worrying now because unless the Suns go in to tank mode tomorrow, there is almost NO CHANCE they will be even close to as bad as last year. I know about 95% of fans think it's foregone conclusion that this team will be awful next year but they're going to be disappointed.

Fans are making the mistake of thinking the Suns return a 25 win team. Well, actually they don't. Beasely, Brown and Johnson accounted for 20% percent of the minutes played last year, took 25% of the shots (at a horrible percentage) and only 18% of the foul shots. Good thing stats can't effectively measure their defense or it would be worse. Kendall Marshall was just about the worst PG in the league, Gortat missed the end of the season, Frye all of it and they had to sit Dragic a couple times. Luis Scola started 17 games at center last year. I love the man and want to see him here until he retires but he's no center. Add in how bad Alvin Gentry was as a coach last year and it seems hard to believe they won as many as they did.

But they did and won't be hard pressed to easily exceed that with the dead weight gone. Now if they actively tank all bets are off but I really don't think that's the plan based on what Sarver has to say in this interview.

I can't link here as I don't have enough posts but it's the recent TV interview from late June.

It's two parts. Go to the bottom video at 7:00. That's not the answer of a guy looking to tank. And that was before the Bledsoe deal.

So, the tank brigade should watch Bledsoe as a clue. No Bledsoe trade and the tank is off. Trade him for a true, young SG and the tank may be on.

 

[tobiazz]

Apparently, Dwight can opt out in 2016. Oh, please no.

 

[AzStevenCal]

You can stop worrying now because unless the Suns go in to tank mode tomorrow, there is almost NO CHANCE they will be even close to as bad as last year. I know about 95% of fans think it's foregone conclusion that this team will be awful next year but they're going to be disappointed.

Fans are making the mistake of thinking the Suns return a 25 win team. Well, actually they don't. Beasely, Brown and Johnson accounted for 20% percent of the minutes played last year, took 25% of the shots (at a horrible percentage) and only 18% of the foul shots. Good thing stats can't effectively measure their defense or it would be worse. Kendall Marshall was just about the worst PG in the league, Gortat missed the end of the season, Frye all of it and they had to sit Dragic a couple times. Luis Scola started 17 games at center last year. I love the man and want to see him here until he retires but he's no center. Add in how bad Alvin Gentry was as a coach last year and it seems hard to believe they won as many as they did.

But they did and won't be hard pressed to easily exceed that with the dead weight gone. Now if they actively tank all bets are off but I really don't think that's the plan based on what Sarver has to say in this interview.

I can't link here as I don't have enough posts but it's the recent TV interview from late June.

It's two parts. Go to the bottom video at 7:00. That's not the answer of a guy looking to tank. And that was before the Bledsoe deal.

So, the tank brigade should watch Bledsoe as a clue. No Bledsoe trade and the tank is off. Trade him for a true, young SG and the tank may be on.

I agree with much of what you're saying although I'd take issue with some of it. I don't think Gentry is great or anything but I don't think last year was really his fault. I don't for a second believe he was the one that decided to play Beasley. I also don't think that Marshall contributed all that much to our poor season. By the time he was playing real minutes we were already doomed.

If we are Beasley-less and Brown is used minimally (and properly) and we don't deal any more veterans and if we only give minutes to the young guys that earn them than yes, I believe we will be a better team than most people expect. I think it's too early to say that all or most of that will happen. So until I see evidence of a new mindset I'm expecting us to be as bad as we were last year. I think the loss of Dudley will come close to offsetting a full season from Gortat. And Scola, who I believe is overrated, is getting a little worse each year and I expect that trend to continue.

Steve

 

[Superbone]

I don't know about Jermain O'Neal, it will make losing a bit easier if he doesn't return but I haven't heard what he's going to do.

According to Coro, he's moving on.

 

[Phrazbit]

You can stop worrying now because unless the Suns go in to tank mode tomorrow, there is almost NO CHANCE they will be even close to as bad as last year. I know about 95% of fans think it's foregone conclusion that this team will be awful next year but they're going to be disappointed.

Fans are making the mistake of thinking the Suns return a 25 win team. Well, actually they don't. Beasely, Brown and Johnson accounted for 20% percent of the minutes played last year, took 25% of the shots (at a horrible percentage) and only 18% of the foul shots. Good thing stats can't effectively measure their defense or it would be worse. Kendall Marshall was just about the worst PG in the league, Gortat missed the end of the season, Frye all of it and they had to sit Dragic a couple times. Luis Scola started 17 games at center last year. I love the man and want to see him here until he retires but he's no center. Add in how bad Alvin Gentry was as a coach last year and it seems hard to believe they won as many as they did.

But they did and won't be hard pressed to easily exceed that with the dead weight gone. Now if they actively tank all bets are off but I really don't think that's the plan based on what Sarver has to say in this interview.

I can't link here as I don't have enough posts but it's the recent TV interview from late June.

It's two parts. Go to the bottom video at 7:00. That's not the answer of a guy looking to tank. And that was before the Bledsoe deal.

So, the tank brigade should watch Bledsoe as a clue. No Bledsoe trade and the tank is off. Trade him for a true, young SG and the tank may be on.

The only players resembling leaders last year were Dudley and O'Neal, both are gone. Dudley is a better player than Butler by quite a bit, and Butler wont have Paul feeding him good looks anymore.

Compared to the league as a whole the Suns stayed remarkably healthy last year, Gortat was the only player to miss any significant length of time and the team was already in the cellar before he went down.

O'Neal was also the only legit interior defender on the roster... and he gone.

For most of the year Telfair provided a quality level of backup point play and shielded Marshall, thats out the window.

As much as I like Frye the person and hope he fully recovers from his health scare, I am not expecting Frye the player to have a successful influence on this roster. He was a lousy player for 2 seasons BEFORE he got injured then sick and missed a year... and his numbers without Nash around are wretched.

We also have a GM who has no ego attachment to the mess of a roster that is currently in place and I dont doubt that he will hesitate to move our older pieces for younger assets and picks. (A competent GM would have blown the team up last year, but we lacked that)

Not only do I think we are unlikely to be better... but if McD is as proactive as I think he is, there is a strong chance the result on the court next year will be considerably worse.

 

[Joe L]

LOL. Miami is hot right now because they have a super team, right now. Miami will never be a basketball town for the long term.

The Lakers own LA, and will continue to. The Clippers? For a while, they'll be good. But they won't maintain it.

The Lakers franchise will always have the lure of greatness, something Miami can never, ever own.

LA is fickle as hell. So while the Lakers have all the accolades, bragging rights, we both know the lure of greatness has been tarnished for good. Howard, Jerry's death, and Kobe "I eat first" Bryant has changed the way players view the Lakers.
Donald Sterling cashed in at the best opportune time and it has paid off in spades. He cashed in when the Lakers were down and that has now changed the perception of the team. We have our two stars locked up for the next 5 years. We now have players eager to play for us ...At discount rates. Your best role players are flying the coup in droves so not sure how great lure of greatness is.
I am not certain we will win a chip in the next 5 years but I do know the perception has changed. The Banners in Staples, or bragging about the trophies is meaningless now. Right now, that's all the Lakers fans have...Memories.

 

[Mainstreet]

The Clippers agree to a two year deal with Darren Collison. A very savvy move by that organization after trading Bledsoe. Great pickup. They shouldn't miss a beat.

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/228705/Darren-Collison-Clippers-Agree-To-Two-Year-Deal

 

[Sci Fi]

Steve,

What more evidence do you need for a "new mindset" than a new coach, new GM, some unusual draft picks and an interesting trade? I think the new mindset is clear. The question really is what is the new direction? Almost total tank or a slower, more measured approach. I think the decisions on Gortat and Scola will be interesting. If they're both here at the start of the season, Sarver's comments about making the playoffs next year seem like the plan. And if that's the goal, a high draft pick next year would be unlikely. Teams don't plan on going from a high lottery pick one year to the playoffs the next.

As to Gentry, I really don't understand your point. He didn't hire him but he really did want him. He went to LA to recruit him along with management. Then, he didn't just play him but decided he, not Dragic, would be the Man. Remember, he wanted Beas to shoot 20 shots a game? And even after it was clear Beas was the problem, he benched Dudley and not Beasley, inserting the other chucker to pound the ball. And let's not forget his wonderful job "coaching" defense. If I could describe the season last year in a few words it would be "Confusion reigns." And it all lays at Gentry's feet. He got what was his just reward. Strangely, for all the bad Blanks caused here, helping Alvin out the door was a blessing. The Suns were going nowhere with him at the top.

 

[Sci Fi]

Phraz,

What evidence do have now to indicate that McDonough will move the older pieces in an expeditious fashion? The move for Bledsoe doesn't seem to indicate that's his direction. Even the Butler part of the trade doesn't seem to indicate that they're trying to tank as you hope. Are they going to take on $8 million in salary and just sit him?

Yes, losing Dudley and O'Neil will hurt. O'Neil played great but he only played about 1000 minutes. Hopefully, Len provides a little. But beyond those two things, it all upside. And, thankfully, Gentry will be gone so his inability to mold a team will no longer handicap the Suns. So, unless the Suns start shedding players (basically Scola and Gortat) fast, the lose of Dudley and O'Neil will be more than compensated.

 

[slinslin]

they had to take on butler to get bledsoe, they didnt make the trade because of butler..

 

[SirStefan32]

Dudley is a better player than Butler by quite a bit

You did not just say that!

Dudley's BEST season is comparable to Butler's WORST season. Even with a reduced role with the Clippers, and only 25 minutes of play, he is still head and shoulders above Dudley. I appreciate some good homer-ism once in a while, and Dudley is one of my favorite players, but saying that he is a better player than Butler is just wrong on so many levels.

 

[slinslin]

You did not just say that!

Dudley's BEST season is comparable to Butler's WORST season. Even with a reduced role with the Clippers, and only 25 minutes of play, he is still head and shoulders above Dudley. I appreciate some good homer-ism once in a while, and Dudley is one of my favorite players, but saying that he is a better player than Butler is just wrong on so many levels.

Hell no you are wrong.

Butler better than Dudley that is just ridiculous silly.

Dudley's worst PER in the last 3 years 14.9 (last year). Butler's best PER in the last 3 years 14.2, last year 12.4 .
Butler's best eFG% 51.3%, Dudleys worst eFG% 54.7%.
Butler's best winshares 0.09, Dudley's worst winshares 0.106.

Even at his worst in the last 3 years Dudley has been better than Butler at his best at pretty much everything.

 

[Phrazbit]

Phraz,

What evidence do have now to indicate that McDonough will move the older pieces in an expeditious fashion? The move for Bledsoe doesn't seem to indicate that's his direction. Even the Butler part of the trade doesn't seem to indicate that they're trying to tank as you hope. Are they going to take on $8 million in salary and just sit him?

Yes, losing Dudley and O'Neil will hurt. O'Neil played great but he only played about 1000 minutes. Hopefully, Len provides a little. But beyond those two things, it all upside. And, thankfully, Gentry will be gone so his inability to mold a team will no longer handicap the Suns. So, unless the Suns start shedding players (basically Scola and Gortat) fast, the lose of Dudley and O'Neil will be more than compensated.

I would not be surprised if Butler never plays a single minute for the Suns. Butler was thrown in as a salary dump for the Clippers, nothing more. He is now someone the Suns will look to either trade as an expiring or I could see them attempting to buy him out. Either way I do not expect him to play a significant role for the Suns beyond maybe the first 2 months.

The Suns dont need to TRY to tank. Its a bad team that is going to lose a lot of games. Gortat is a near certainty to get moved by the trade deadline or sooner. He is expiring, his replacement just got drafted, he has not seemed happy here. Every indication is that Gortat is gone.

Scola is the oldest piece in a crowded (but still pathetic) forward rotation. He has a manageable salary and could help some quality team off their bench. I think its more than likely he gets traded in the next few weeks.

And everything about the Dudley trade signaled a turn towards youth and dumping the vets. McD has no loyalty to these older players, he knew this was a rebuild when he took over and I expect him to rebuild, not sit around and see if the obviously terrible roster is actually terrible.

You did not just say that!

Dudley's BEST season is comparable to Butler's WORST season. Even with a reduced role with the Clippers, and only 25 minutes of play, he is still head and shoulders above Dudley. I appreciate some good homer-ism once in a while, and Dudley is one of my favorite players, but saying that he is a better player than Butler is just wrong on so many levels.

I did just say that. Butler is a defensive doormat at this stage in his career, his only function is to stand around and hope someone else gives him a wide open look... which Paul was pretty good at. A this point in their careers Dudley is better across the board. Honestly... do think think the Clippers would have traded Bledsoe and Butler for a player who only a Suns homer would think is better than Butler in the first place? Dudley is a major upgrade over Butler and simply by looking at the pieces of the trade its obvious the opinion is held by the guys pulling the strings.

And besides, like I said, if the Suns cant find a team to dump Bulter on I would not be surprised if they explore buyout options.

 

[Phrazbit]

http://sports.bovada.lv/sports-betting/basketball-futures.jsp

Betting odds for the 2014 NBA title. Suns and Orlando tied for last at 300/1.

It takes a pretty serious homer to think this team will be anything but bad.

 

[Mainstreet]

The Suns dont need to TRY to tank. Its a bad team that is going to lose a lot of games. Gortat is a near certainty to get moved by the trade deadline or sooner. He is expiring, his replacement just got drafted, he has not seemed happy here. Every indication is that Gortat is gone.

Scola is the oldest piece in a crowded (but still pathetic) forward rotation. He has a manageable salary and could help some quality team off their bench. I think its more than likely he gets traded in the next few weeks.

This summarizes it nicely.

 

[elindholm]

http://sports.bovada.lv/sports-betting/basketball-futures.jsp

Betting odds for the 2014 NBA title. Suns and Orlando tied for last at 300/1.

I assume they aren't getting much action on that. Even at 300:1, it's a fool's bet.

 

[AzStevenCal]

http://sports.bovada.lv/sports-betting/basketball-futures.jsp

Betting odds for the 2014 NBA title. Suns and Orlando tied for last at 300/1.

It takes a pretty serious homer to think this team will be anything but bad.

Last year, Beasley destroyed us almost nightly and we lost a lot of very winnable games early in the season because of him. IMO, we reached a point where several player pretty much packed it in. Now, take Beasley out of the equation and keep the veterans here and healthy and I could see us winning 35 games or so. For me, it all depends on whether we once again allow Beasley to spend time on the court when his play doesn't warrant it. I'm hoping we make a trade or two so this doesn't occur but who knows.

Steve

 

[Phrazbit]

Last year, Beasley destroyed us almost nightly and we lost a lot of very winnable games early in the season because of him. IMO, we reached a point where several player pretty much packed it in. Now, take Beasley out of the equation and keep the veterans here and healthy and I could see us winning 35 games or so. For me, it all depends on whether we once again allow Beasley to spend time on the court when his play doesn't warrant it. I'm hoping we make a trade or two so this doesn't occur but who knows.

Steve

They played a cream puff schedule early too, and lots of bad teams give up when it becomes how bad they are. We just dont remember because we have not sucked in a long time. And we dont even know if Beasley is out of the equation.

I look at the team and (Beasley or no) they are going to be the worst shooting team in the league. Staying in games is going to be tough with no legit scoring threat and no one who can hit open 3s with any consistency and a team covered in defensive liabilities.