Around the League (Offseason)

[devilalum]

My expectations are very low.

I'm just excited that the Suns have a couple of players that might actually be capable of generating a decent highlight.

 

[slinslin]

Last year, Beasley destroyed us almost nightly and we lost a lot of very winnable games early in the season because of him. IMO, we reached a point where several player pretty much packed it in. Now, take Beasley out of the equation and keep the veterans here and healthy and I could see us winning 35 games or so. For me, it all depends on whether we once again allow Beasley to spend time on the court when his play doesn't warrant it. I'm hoping we make a trade or two so this doesn't occur but who knows.

Steve

Uh? We lost those games regardless of Beasley, heck Beasley even won us a couple when he had his few great games.

When Beasley was completely out of the rotation this team was just as bad.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Uh? We lost those games regardless of Beasley, heck Beasley even won us a couple when he had his few great games.

When Beasley was completely out of the rotation this team was just as bad.

We had given up by then. And yes, Beasley was THE MAIN REASON we lost most of those early matchups. It was a soft schedule and we dominated while he was on the bench and got killed when he was on the court. Two months into the season we were losing games all on our own with no help from Beasley but the first month of the season was a different story.

Steve

 

[Phrazbit]

Uh? We lost those games regardless of Beasley, heck Beasley even won us a couple when he had his few great games.

When Beasley was completely out of the rotation this team was just as bad.

Hmm... no. There were a handful of games early in the year where Beasley shot like 20% posted a +,- of -20 and we lost by 2 points. If Sleazley had not been on the team we probably win 4 or 5 more games last year. And those advanced stats you love strongly backup that view.

 

[AzStevenCal]

They played a cream puff schedule early too, and lots of bad teams give up when it becomes how bad they are. We just dont remember because we have not sucked in a long time. And we dont even know if Beasley is out of the equation.

I look at the team and (Beasley or no) they are going to be the worst shooting team in the league. Staying in games is going to be tough with no legit scoring threat and no one who can hit open 3s with any consistency and a team covered in defensive liabilities.

That has been my point in this and other conversations. If he gets serious time and hasn't miraculously improved, we will be in the running for worst team in the league. If he's an end of the bench guy, this team will be greatly improved. Until I see what this coaching staff is going to do with him I really have no idea what we'll be this season. I know we won't be good either way but that's it.

Steve

 

[Phrazbit]

That has been my point in this and other conversations. If he gets serious time and hasn't miraculously improved, we will be in the running for worst team in the league. If he's an end of the bench guy, this team will be greatly improved. Until I see what this coaching staff is going to do with him I really have no idea what we'll be this season. I know we won't be good either way but that's it.

Steve

Even if Beasley does not play one minute I think this is a 30 win team at best, and thats if they defied logic and kept Scola and Gortat all season.

Again, I fully expect them to be gone by feb or sooner (I dont think Scola plays here this year at all). The team stayed remarkably healthy last year, Gortat was our only real injury. And do you really think the vets on this team would not give up again when new years rolls around and we are already way out of the playoffs and everyone not on a rookie deal is getting mentioned in trade rumors?

 

[Mainstreet]

J.J. Hickson signs a 3 year, 15M dollar deal with Nuggets.

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/228719/Hickson-Agrees-To-Three-Year-$15M-Contract-With-Nuggets

 

[Joe Mama]

The only players resembling leaders last year were Dudley and O'Neal, both are gone. Dudley is a better player than Butler by quite a bit, and Butler wont have Paul feeding him good looks anymore.

Compared to the league as a whole the Suns stayed remarkably healthy last year, Gortat was the only player to miss any significant length of time and the team was already in the cellar before he went down.

O'Neal was also the only legit interior defender on the roster... and he gone.

For most of the year Telfair provided a quality level of backup point play and shielded Marshall, thats out the window.

As much as I like Frye the person and hope he fully recovers from his health scare, I am not expecting Frye the player to have a successful influence on this roster. He was a lousy player for 2 seasons BEFORE he got injured then sick and missed a year... and his numbers without Nash around are wretched.

We also have a GM who has no ego attachment to the mess of a roster that is currently in place and I dont doubt that he will hesitate to move our older pieces for younger assets and picks. (A competent GM would have blown the team up last year, but we lacked that)

Not only do I think we are unlikely to be better... but if McD is as proactive as I think he is, there is a strong chance the result on the court next year will be considerably worse.

Exactly. I find it hard to believe that both Scola and Gortat will be here after February 2014. However even with those guys this team is going to be awful. If they win more than 30 games Jeff Hornacek should win coach of the year. I think Dudley is a big loss even though we have Butler and Jermaine O'Neal was really big for us last year. It still blows my mind that there weren't any playoff bound teams willing to give us a draft pick for him at the trade deadline. Surely he could have made it a few months without our training staff.

Steve,

What more evidence do you need for a "new mindset" than a new coach, new GM, some unusual draft picks and an interesting trade? I think the new mindset is clear. The question really is what is the new direction? Almost total tank or a slower, more measured approach. I think the decisions on Gortat and Scola will be interesting. If they're both here at the start of the season, Sarver's comments about making the playoffs next year seem like the plan. And if that's the goal, a high draft pick next year would be unlikely. Teams don't plan on going from a high lottery pick one year to the playoffs the next.

As to Gentry, I really don't understand your point. He didn't hire him but he really did want him. He went to LA to recruit him along with management. Then, he didn't just play him but decided he, not Dragic, would be the Man. Remember, he wanted Beas to shoot 20 shots a game? And even after it was clear Beas was the problem, he benched Dudley and not Beasley, inserting the other chucker to pound the ball. And let's not forget his wonderful job "coaching" defense. If I could describe the season last year in a few words it would be "Confusion reigns." And it all lays at Gentry's feet. He got what was his just reward. Strangely, for all the bad Blanks caused here, helping Alvin out the door was a blessing. The Suns were going nowhere with him at the top.

Sarver can talk all day about wanting to make the playoffs next year, but the current roster will compete with Philadelphia and maybe Orlando for the worst record in the league. Furthermore I never understand the harsh criticism of gentry. I'll openly admit that I don't watch most of the games closely, but I was always impressed by him as a coach. I thought he did remarkably well despite management. I don't believe for a second that he either wanted Beasley on the roster or was choosing to play him over other people. Same goes for Marshall.

Honestly... do think think the Clippers would have traded Bledsoe and Butler for a player who only a Suns homer would think is better than Butler in the first place? Dudley is a major upgrade over Butler and simply by looking at the pieces of the trade its obvious the opinion is held by the guys pulling the strings.

And besides, like I said, if the Suns cant find a team to dump Bulter on I would not be surprised if they explore buyout options.

Yeah, not sure I understand the notion that Butler is better than Dudley at this point. However let's not forget that the trade wasn't Bledsoe and Butler straight up for Dudley. The Clippers also got JJ Redick in the sign and trade. I do think they should start Butler, Gortat, and Scola (assuming they are all here by the beginning of the season) to see if they can increase their value.

http://sports.bovada.lv/sports-betting/basketball-futures.jsp

Betting odds for the 2014 NBA title. Suns and Orlando tied for last at 300/1.

It takes a pretty serious homer to think this team will be anything but bad.

I would put Philadelphia in that group, but otherwise yes. We are all going to be monumentally bad.

Joe

 

[Dalbrin]

If the Suns even look like they might make the playoffs for a 1st round bounce, I will be seriously pissed. Good GM's know when it's time to tank for a season or two, especially when a good draft class is on the way. The arguments you all are making give me hope, though.

 

[elindholm]

J.J. Hickson signs a 3 year, 15M dollar deal with Nuggets.

That seems like a pretty good price for him. He may never get the mental part of the game, but the talent and physical intensity are there.

 

[Gaddabout]

That seems like a pretty good price for him. He may never get the mental part of the game, but the talent and physical intensity are there.

Was thinking the same thing.

 

[Mainstreet]

That seems like a pretty good price for him. He may never get the mental part of the game, but the talent and physical intensity are there.

I like what I see in Hickson. Wasn't he the rumored holdup in the Amare to Cleveland trade proposal?

 

[Phrazbit]

J.J. Hickson signs a 3 year, 15M dollar deal with Nuggets.

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/228719/Hickson-Agrees-To-Three-Year-$15M-Contract-With-Nuggets

That is a fantastic contract for the Nuggets. Seems like an odd destination for him though, slim chance to be a starter with Faried and McGee on board. I'm surprised he could not find similar money with more PT elsewhere.

 

[Phrazbit]

Exactly. I find it hard to believe that both Scola and Gortat will be here after February 2014. However even with those guys this team is going to be awful. If they win more than 30 games Jeff Hornacek should win coach of the year. I think Dudley is a big loss even though we have Butler and Jermaine O'Neal was really big for us last year. It still blows my mind that there weren't any playoff bound teams willing to give us a draft pick for him at the trade deadline. Surely he could have made it a few months without our training staff.

I dont think we even tried. The inactivity by our front office last year at the deadline was inexcusable. "Lotto bound... covered in veteran players... lame duck coach... lets sit on our thumbs and see how this plays out."

 

[Mainstreet]

That is a fantastic contract for the Nuggets. Seems like an odd destination for him though, slim chance to be a starter with Faried and McGee on board. I'm surprised he could not find similar money with more PT elsewhere.

It seems like the Suns had other chances to go after Hickson but declined. This would have been their best opportunity if they had the finances to do it. I'm hoping McDonnough has a plan to trade Gortat and Scola.

 

[Joe Mama]

I dont think we even tried. The inactivity by our front office last year at the deadline was inexcusable. "Lotto bound... covered in veteran players... lame duck coach... lets sit on our thumbs and see how this plays out."

the rumor was that everybody thought we would release him, but seems like the front office should have just said, "we are not releasing Jermaine O'Neal," and hopefully squashed that idea. I don't know. I don't like criticizing them for "inactivity" when for all we know they were very active but just getting lowballed by everybody. Seems like if we had been offered anything for Jermaine O'Neal we would have taken it though.

Joe

 

[Superbone]

I assume they aren't getting much action on that. Even at 300:1, it's a fool's bet.

Which is what Vegas thrives on.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I assume they aren't getting much action on that. Even at 300:1, it's a fool's bet.

Which is what Vegas thrives on.

Not to pick a nit here but I don't think Vegas could survive let alone thrive on the action they get from this kind of wager. They love a fool's bet but that's betting the field in craps not laying even money that aliens will destroy Des Moines at exactly 3:17 PM tomorrow. The Suns winning it all this year is closer to the alien invasion wager.

Steve

 

[Phrazbit]

Not to pick a nit here but I don't think Vegas could survive let alone thrive on the action they get from this kind of wager. They love a fool's bet but that's betting the field in craps not laying even money that aliens will destroy Des Moines at exactly 3:17 PM tomorrow. The Suns winning it all this year is closer to the alien invasion wager.

Steve

I have it on good authority that this is a strong year for potential alien invasions.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Exactly. I find it hard to believe that both Scola and Gortat will be here after February 2014. However even with those guys this team is going to be awful. If they win more than 30 games Jeff Hornacek should win coach of the year. I think Dudley is a big loss even though we have Butler and Jermaine O'Neal was really big for us last year. It still blows my mind that there weren't any playoff bound teams willing to give us a draft pick for him at the trade deadline. Surely he could have made it a few months without our training staff.



Sarver can talk all day about wanting to make the playoffs next year, but the current roster will compete with Philadelphia and maybe Orlando for the worst record in the league. Furthermore I never understand the harsh criticism of gentry. I'll openly admit that I don't watch most of the games closely, but I was always impressed by him as a coach. I thought he did remarkably well despite management. I don't believe for a second that he either wanted Beasley on the roster or was choosing to play him over other people. Same goes for Marshall.



Yeah, not sure I understand the notion that Butler is better than Dudley at this point. However let's not forget that the trade wasn't Bledsoe and Butler straight up for Dudley. The Clippers also got JJ Redick in the sign and trade. I do think they should start Butler, Gortat, and Scola (assuming they are all here by the beginning of the season) to see if they can increase their value.



I would put Philadelphia in that group, but otherwise yes. We are all going to be monumentally bad.

Joe

Well stated on all of this. I'd add for those who expect us to not have a bottom 5 record, what makes you think we've improved? (or which teams near the bottom have gotten worse)

We were already bad, have no good players of note coming off injury and have one young player (Bledsoe) who has a chance of making major improvement. (and that's no guarantee either)

We don't have to try to tank, we're going to be awful regardless. Play the young guys, trade the old, and get another young talent and cap space for next year.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Well stated on all of this. I'd add for those who expect us to not have a bottom 5 record, what makes you think we've improved? (or which teams near the bottom have gotten worse)

We were already bad, have no good players of note coming off injury and have one young player (Bledsoe) who has a chance of making major improvement. (and that's no guarantee either)

We don't have to try to tank, we're going to be awful regardless. Play the young guys, trade the old, and get another young talent and cap space for next year.

I realize we're all just taking our best guess here but I have no clue what kind of a team we'll be. I know there is no chance we'll be a good team but that's where it ends for me. I just don't think you can overstate the impact that Beasley can have. If he's history and this organization makes an effort to win as many games as possible I do think we'll be quite a bit better this season. I think it's the worst thing that can happen for us but I see it as a real possibility.

Steve

 

[AzStevenCal]

I have it on good authority that this is a strong year for potential alien invasions.

Well yeah, the Alien invasion is a sure thing but Des Moines?

Steve

 

[ASUCHRIS]

I realize we're all just taking our best guess here but I have no clue what kind of a team we'll be. I know there is no chance we'll be a good team but that's where it ends for me. I just don't think you can overstate the impact that Beasley can have. If he's history and this organization makes an effort to win as many games as possible I do think we'll be quite a bit better this season. I think it's the worst thing that can happen for us but I see it as a real possibility.

Steve

While I respect your opinion, I think you overstate Beasley's impact. With him or without him, we're a bad team.

Of course there are many unknowns, and it's possible we'll be in the 5-12 range in terms of record, I also feel like most of the bad teams have more young talent and are adding talent. Sure there are a couple of exceptions, but I'd be very surprised if we don't have a bottom 5 record.

 

[Mainstreet]

The Wolves waive Greg Stiemsma. I think he would be a good get as a backup center especially if the Suns eventually trade Gortat.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I realize we're all just taking our best guess here but I have no clue what kind of a team we'll be. I know there is no chance we'll be a good team but that's where it ends for me. I just don't think you can overstate the impact that Beasley can have. If he's history and this organization makes an effort to win as many games as possible I do think we'll be quite a bit better this season. I think it's the worst thing that can happen for us but I see it as a real possibility.

Steve

A new coach. A little more offense. A couple of rookies (total wild card there).

Who knows. This team could be significantly better just by playing a little more consistently. I really don't care if they are better or not. But I just don't think its a guaraantee they will be bottom 5 either.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2