Article on JJ's contract

[thegrahamcrackr]

I am still hoping that they can reach some other contract agreement before he signs that max deal with Atlanta.

Doubtful at this point. Jerry and Bryan were negotiating with his agent on Monday in LV. Neither of them were in the gym the rest of the week, presumably having left town. If we were going to come to terms with Joe, it would have been during the summer league.

 

[sly fly]

I also think some of you fail to realize what JJ is beginning to bring to the table.

I see the makings of an absolute NBA stud, and can't believe some of you would rather just plug in somebody else (Bell/Jackson) and sing kumbayah.

Cases in point...

- The guy is durable. And, has proven it.

- How many times does the ball leave his hands and you think it's NOT going in?

- How many defenders have been able to stop his little floater?

- I forget which game it was (I think early in the playoffs), when JJ had the ball on the wing. He basically froze the defender, crossed over, pulled up and hit the shot. At that point, I turned the my buds and just shook my head. You just don't get that from your average Joe.

Mark my words, JJ is one of the premier 2 guards in the world. And, he's only getting better. He's not overvalued. Teams know what he's worth, and PHX is damn lucky he's restricted.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I also think some of you fail to realize what JJ is beginning to bring to the table.

I see the makings of an absolute NBA stud, and can't believe some of you would rather just plug in somebody else (Bell/Jackson) and sing kumbayah.

Cases in point...

- The guy is durable. And, has proven it.

- How many times does the ball leave his hands and you think it's NOT going in?

- How many defenders have been able to stop his little floater?

- I forget which game it was (I think early in the playoffs), when JJ had the ball on the wing. He basically froze the defender, crossed over, pulled up and hit the shot. At that point, I turned the my buds and just shook my head. You just don't get that from your average Joe.

Mark my words, JJ is one of the premier 2 guards in the world. And, he's only getting better. He's not overvalued. Teams know what he's worth, and PHX is damn lucky he's restricted.

Totally agree. And the shot you're thinking of was Game 4 against the Spurs when Bowen left his jock ont he floor as JJ put up 26 points in his 2nd game back after breaking his face.

Agree with Andy also. To think this team was busted up last summer is pretty ridiculous. This team is just being built, short term AND long term. And you know HOW that's gonna come to fruition? The Suns Kool-Aider's favorite player - SHAWN MARION - getting rid of his contract and getting something in return is what is going to bridge this era's team which is Steve, Shawn and Amare to next era's team which will be a DOMINANT Amare and JJ.

 

[sly fly]

Totally agree. And the shot you're thinking of was Game 4 against the Spurs when Bowen left his jock ont he floor as JJ put up 26 points in his 2nd game back after breaking his face.

Agree with Andy also. To think this team was busted up last summer is pretty ridiculous. This team is just being built, short term AND long term. And you know HOW that's gonna come to fruition? The Suns Kool-Aider's favorite player - SHAWN MARION - getting rid of his contract and getting something in return is what is going to bridge this era's team which is Steve, Shawn and Amare to next era's team which will be a DOMINANT Amare and JJ.

Damn, you're good, Cheese. That was the play. And, it showed a glimpse into the future of how good this guy is going to be.

 

[sunsfn]

I also think some of you fail to realize what JJ is beginning to bring to the table.

I see the makings of an absolute NBA stud, and can't believe some of you would rather just plug in somebody else (Bell/Jackson) and sing kumbayah.

Cases in point...

- The guy is durable. And, has proven it.

- How many times does the ball leave his hands and you think it's NOT going in?

- How many defenders have been able to stop his little floater?

- I forget which game it was (I think early in the playoffs), when JJ had the ball on the wing. He basically froze the defender, crossed over, pulled up and hit the shot. At that point, I turned the my buds and just shook my head. You just don't get that from your average Joe.

Mark my words, JJ is one of the premier 2 guards in the world. And, he's only getting better. He's not overvalued. Teams know what he's worth, and PHX is damn lucky he's restricted.

Great post sly fly.

Yes, that was the game against the spurs.

Also he had some shots at the clock against Bowen that were great shots and without his size he would not even have been able to get the shot off.

I think Sarver will have to cave in to this, I do not think he has a choice right now.

--

 

[cly2tw]

Marion is 27 years old. Say he gets traded when he is 29. He will still be in his prime, but at the tail end of it. He will be looking for another big contract when he is 30, and will likely get it. Of course, his athleticism could easily take a gigantic step back by that time - making him far less effective.

If we have to trade Marion in two years, while his value is still high, we could land a couple prospects and not have to worry about losing him for nothing when his deal is up.

Wishful thinking. Though he might not appear to be overpaid with his current stats, everybody knows that his skill is best fitted to Suns' system. In two years, with 15mil contract, who is gonna want him if the team he is best fit doesn't?

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Wishful thinking. Though he might not appear to be overpaid with his current stats, everybody knows that his skill is best fitted to Suns' system. In two years, with 15mil contract, who is gonna want him if the team he is best fit doesn't?

There will always be a team with cap room that sees a star and will pay whatever they want for it. It doesn't have to make any sense, it is just a fact of the NBA.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

So you guys want to max a 3 year starter on who's career best while playing the most minutes in the NBA is 17 points based on potential?

Is this the NFL now

 

[Chaplin]

Agree with Andy also. To think this team was busted up last summer is pretty ridiculous. This team is just being built, short term AND long term. And you know HOW that's gonna come to fruition? The Suns Kool-Aider's favorite player - SHAWN MARION - getting rid of his contract and getting something in return is what is going to bridge this era's team which is Steve, Shawn and Amare to next era's team which will be a DOMINANT Amare and JJ.

I HATE when you do this--I can never figure out why you think it is ok to rip on other Suns fans just because they happen to like Shawn Marion more than you do. You have strong points here, I don't think there's a need to insult people when we all love the same team here.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Totally agree. And the shot you're thinking of was Game 4 against the Spurs when Bowen left his jock ont he floor as JJ put up 26 points in his 2nd game back after breaking his face.

Agree with Andy also. To think this team was busted up last summer is pretty ridiculous. This team is just being built, short term AND long term. And you know HOW that's gonna come to fruition? The Suns Kool-Aider's favorite player - SHAWN MARION - getting rid of his contract and getting something in return is what is going to bridge this era's team which is Steve, Shawn and Amare to next era's team which will be a DOMINANT Amare and JJ.

If we sign JJ, Marion is gone this year or next. The core is already broken up.

Right now, it is pick your overpaid 3rd option. I frankly don't care which they keep, but to think that the Suns are going to pay the luxury tax is ignoring every shred of evidence to the contrary.

I believe Amare will be dominant no matter which player they replace.

 

[RJ May]

Well JJ is fairly overvalued here right now.

The truth is, JJ is a shooting guard who averages between 16-18 points over the last two years. During that time, he has played the most minutes of any NBA player and has played on the most statistically dominating team. He has some nice numbers. 17 points. 5 rebounds. 5 assists.

His defense is alright, except when he is covering any other SG of significance like James, Ginobili, McGrady, ect...

Joe is a nice player. He has a good skill set. Nice players don't make max contracts. Look Shawn Marion is in the top 2 SF in the league and we bitch about his max contract. Nice players at the easiest position to fill in the league (sg) don't make a max contract.

If you put Raja Bell into JJ's spot and gave him JJ's minutes I am fairly sure you would see similiar numbers.

Want further proof? Jim Jackson's numbers with JJ out:

9 points, 2 rebounds, 5 assists
17 points, 8 rebounds, 1 assist
11 points, 6 rebounds, 3 assists
21 points, 5 rebounds, 0 assists
16 points, 7 rebounds, 0 assists
20 points, 8 rebounds, 1 assist

shooting percentage as a starter: 50% from 2, 51% from 3. It's no coincidence these numbers are right in line with Joe Johnson's career highs in shooting percentage. This offense gets you open shots.

So what did we lose? A handful of assists. Does roughly 3 assists a game equate to a max contract? And we are talking Jim Jackson, a guy nobody wanted.

JJ would be averaging 22-25pts 5REB 5ASST on a bad team. You can't expect him to do the same thing on a team that's loaded as the suns. His numbers are exceptional if you compare them to the 4th best player on any other team.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I HATE when you do this--I can never figure out why you think it is ok to rip on other Suns fans just because they happen to like Shawn Marion more than you do. You have strong points here, I don't think there's a need to insult people when we all love the same team here.

Chap - you're too sensitive man. I don't consider "ripping" on people by calling them Kool-aiders - I just think that they're not very objective when it comes to certain things. Relax dude - if there are toher good points being made - why focus on a tiny little snippit throughout just one point? Maybe it hurts because it's true? If it offended - it wasn't my intention and I apologize if it struck that deep a nerve.

All I was saying was that Marion was gonna be the guy who was the bridge to the next team - that's all.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

I HATE when you do this--I can never figure out why you think it is ok to rip on other Suns fans just because they happen to like Shawn Marion more than you do. You have strong points here, I don't think there's a need to insult people when we all love the same team here.

Because Cheese gets some sort of enjoyment by belittling others on the internet. Whatever makes him happy I guess.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

JJ would be averaging 22-25pts 5REB 5ASST on a bad team. You can't expect him to do the same thing on a team that's loaded as the suns. His numbers are exceptional if you compare them to the 4th best player on any other team.

You mean like the Suns team two years ago that finished in the lottery and he averaged 16 points a game for while shooting far worse and playing as many minutes?

 

[Cheesebeef]

So you guys want to max a 3 year starter on who's career best while playing the most minutes in the NBA is 17 points based on potential?

Is this the NFL now

Actually - I'd argue his career best was arguably the half season after Marbury got traded and JJ and Amare led to Suns to somewhat respectability in the second half of the season while everyone else wa pretty mediocre. The guy is gonna be a stud - plain and simple and anyone who thinks that he could just be easily replaced with insert SG here is in for a very rude awakening both this season and in the future if he's not resigned.

 

[Cheesebeef]

You mean like the Suns team two years ago that finished in the lottery and he averaged 16 points a game for while shooting far worse and playing as many minutes?

this is such BS and you know it. See the post above.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

this is such BS and you know it. See the post above.

How is it BS?

He played every game. He led the league in minutes. He averaged 16 points a game and shot 43% from the field and 30% from 3.

Is it BS because it doesn't jibe with your arguement? I suppose that would certainly put a dent in your rhetoric.

Now he did work hard on his game, but he absolutely benefited from open shot after open shot. If he goes to Atlanta, which does not run an open tempo game, his averages will be right around what they are now. More shots, worse percentage.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Actually - I'd argue his career best was arguably the half season after Marbury got traded and JJ and Amare led to Suns to somewhat respectability in the second half of the season while everyone else wa pretty mediocre. The guy is gonna be a stud - plain and simple and anyone who thinks that he could just be easily replaced with insert SG here is in for a very rude awakening both this season and in the future if he's not resigned.

Amare led the Suns to respectability. JJ played a nice 2nd/3rd option.

Again, I don't believe "nice" players should get max contracts. I don't think Marion should be getting a max contract.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Somewhere along the way, I feel like my intent was missed.

I like JJ. I like Marion. I consider both to be roughly equal value to this team. Unfortunately one of them will be gone within a year. It's crystal clear.

However...either of them will make a great 3rd option behind Nash and Amare. Both of them would work well with the complimentary players we now have. Neither of them will be worth the money they are making. Amazingly, despite the money they are making, someone will pay for them based on current production like Marion or potential like JJ. Losing one or the other will not doom our franchise, it was simply inevitable when we made a huge blunder (in retrospect) last year.

 

[cly2tw]

Somewhere along the way, I feel like my intent was missed.

I like JJ. I like Marion. I consider both to be roughly equal value to this team. Unfortunately one of them will be gone within a year. It's crystal clear.

However...either of them will make a great 3rd option behind Nash and Amare. Both of them would work well with the complimentary players we now have. Neither of them will be worth the money they are making. Amazingly, despite the money they are making, someone will pay for them based on current production like Marion or potential like JJ. Losing one or the other will not doom our franchise, it was simply inevitable when we made a huge blunder (in retrospect) last year.

Totally agree.
However, in one game against the Spurs, JJ did show glimpse of potential to become second scoring option ahead of Nash in one or two years, which Marion has by now no chance of achieving. However, it was only one game compared to Manu doing the same game in and game out. Joe's problem is also his advantage, smooth as silk. But he lacks some grittyness and dynamical drives that can simply overpower the defender the likes of Wade, AI, TMac or even Pierce are capable of. However, with the absolute dominant force in Amare, we don't need that much of those go-to player quality from our 2/3 scoring option. In two years at the latest, Amare will be as good if not better than Olajowan and we can even win championships like Houston did back then, surrounding Amare with average but fitting talent. And we'll still have Nash no matter either of JJ or Marion is still on board.

 

[RJ May]

You mean like the Suns team two years ago that finished in the lottery and he averaged 16 points a game for while shooting far worse and playing as many minutes?

The guy averaged 20/5/5 after Marbury was traded.

 

[elindholm]

I agree that the Suns will have to choose between Marion or Johnson sooner rather than later, as I have also been saying for a while. Unfortunately, unless they can engineer a good sign-and-trade for Johnson right now, their only immediate option is to keep Johnson and try to find their trade later. Assuming Johnson's front-loaded contract is the one that we wind up, he'll have more trade value in a year or two than Marion will. Marion is probably still the more likely one to be traded, but it's not clear.

 

[sly fly]

Somewhere along the way, I feel like my intent was missed.

I like JJ. I like Marion. I consider both to be roughly equal value to this team. Unfortunately one of them will be gone within a year. It's crystal clear.

However...either of them will make a great 3rd option behind Nash and Amare. Both of them would work well with the complimentary players we now have. Neither of them will be worth the money they are making. Amazingly, despite the money they are making, someone will pay for them based on current production like Marion or potential like JJ. Losing one or the other will not doom our franchise, it was simply inevitable when we made a huge blunder (in retrospect) last year.

How do you know!????! Are you cleaning Sarver's house or something? C'mon, you seem so sure of yourself. Show me an article or blurb or whatever in which SARVER is quoted as saying Marion or JJ won't be back next year.

How is this "crystal clear"? If you're so sure, then provide FACTS to back up your predictions.

Another thing, you're selling JJ way too short. Your opinion of him makes me believe you didn't exactly watch as much Suns basketball as I thought you have. Because, if you did (and have any hoops in your blood), you would realize what kind of player JJ is becoming.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

How do you know!????! Are you cleaning Sarver's house or something? C'mon, you seem so sure of yourself. Show me an article or blurb or whatever in which SARVER is quoted as saying Marion or JJ won't be back next year.

How is this "crystal clear"? If you're so sure, then provide FACTS to back up your predictions.

Another thing, you're selling JJ way too short. Your opinion of him makes me believe you didn't exactly watch as much Suns basketball as I thought you have. Because, if you did (and have any hoops in your blood), you would realize what kind of player JJ is becoming.

Because every move the Suns have made has shown "Competitive but affordable team". I don't see why this would be any different, especially with more money on the line.

I watched virtually every Suns game, hence how I know that JJ got open shot after open shot.

 

[Mainstreet]

I agree that the Suns will have to choose between Marion or Johnson sooner rather than later, as I have also been saying for a while. Unfortunately, unless they can engineer a good sign-and-trade for Johnson right now, their only immediate option is to keep Johnson and try to find their trade later. Assuming Johnson's front-loaded contract is the one that we wind up, he'll have more trade value in a year or two than Marion will. Marion is probably still the more likely one to be traded, but it's not clear.

This is a good take. Sooner or later one of the Suns big four will have to go.
As it very unlikely to be Nash or Stoudemire, that leaves JJ or Marion. Unless the Suns are intent on keeping these four together to make a title run (which I hope), one of these two will have to be moved if not this year then probably next. Anyone only has to look as far as Dallas to know the ramifications of the luxury tax, where they are considering releasing Finley for the tax exemption.

I only hope if the Suns move one of the two (IMO the more likely option is Marion because of his higher max salary and age) they get equal or near equal value in return in a sign and trade (or Marion's case, just a trade). Keeping Stoudemire and JJ together makes the most sense as they are near the same age.

I hope it does not come to this, but the NBA is a business. I just hope the Suns protect their assets.