Article on Shaun King

[Tangodnzr]

Am I missing something here....

People are posting, yada, yada... and Green should be doing something about this......

My point was simply that evidently there is no love lost as far as King's attitude towards Josh.
Which doesn't surprise me.
Now I'm not naive enough to think that there has to be some kind of love fest between players, as long as they do their job on the field.


I think whoever it was that posted that King resembles Blake in a Leon kind of way may be pretty accurate. If indeed that animosity towards Josh from King is obvious enough for fans to see on the sidelines, then I would surely think its even more obvious amongst the players.
And that type of thing more often than not, can tend to infect the whole team, causing unneccesary dissension and factions developing. Not Good.

I have a hard time buying that King was brought in as part of Denny's 'secret" plan to eventually start him all along. I think he is what he is. An experienced NFL QB that, as long as he doesn't cause trouble, should be a decent backup and capable of taking over the reins on a short term basis, if necessary. That's it.

This whole thing coming down the way it did, once again seems to defy logic.
And based on Green's track record and history, I think he may indeed once again displaying the favoritism that led to so many problems and his eventual
demise in Minnesota.

I don't think King is necessarily one of those. I think you might very well first look to Fitz there. And if he and Quan are grousing around about how many touches they are getting, then it would be right down Denny's alley to cater maybe a little more than he should to their whims. Maybe even to the point that he starts, listening too much to that type of thing and himself gets lured into placing the QB in self limiting positions as to what he allows them to do, or how much he backs them.

For someone who made such a big deal out of Josh being the man, this all is sure coming down super strange right now.

And as I keep repeating....its sure seems more and more like deja vous all over again with the fat man.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

My point was simply that evidently there is no love lost as far as King's attitude towards Josh.
Which doesn't surprise me.
Now I'm not naive enough to think that there has to be some kind of love fest between players, as long as they do their job on the field.


I think whoever it was that posted that King resembles Blake in a Leon kind of way may be pretty accurate. If indeed that animosity towards Josh from King is obvious enough for fans to see on the sidelines, then I would surely think its even more obvious amongst the players.
And that type of thing more often than not, can tend to infect the whole team, causing unneccesary dissension and factions developing. Not Good.

I have a hard time buying that King was brought in as part of Denny's 'secret" plan to eventually start him all along. I think he is what he is. An experienced NFL QB that, as long as he doesn't cause trouble, should be a decent backup and capable of taking over the reins on a short term basis, if necessary. That's it.

This whole thing coming down the way it did, once again seems to defy logic.
And based on Green's track record and history, I think he may indeed once again displaying the favoritism that led to so many problems and his eventual
demise in Minnesota.

I don't think King is necessarily one of those. I think you might very well first look to Fitz there. And if he and Quan are grousing around about how many touches they are getting, then it would be right down Denny's alley to cater maybe a little more than he should to their whims. Maybe even to the point that he starts, listening too much to that type of thing and himself gets lured into placing the QB in self limiting positions as to what he allows them to do, or how much he backs them.

For someone who made such a big deal out of Josh being the man, this all is sure coming down super strange right now.

And as I keep repeating....its sure seems more and more like deja vous all over again with the fat man.

I take your point... but the references to his girth are gratuitous and unnecessary... like your earlier spelling of Simeon as Simian, knowing full well that it refers to an ape... And it's "deja vu" by the way.

 

[conraddobler]

My point was simply that evidently there is no love lost as far as King's attitude towards Josh.
Which doesn't surprise me.
Now I'm not naive enough to think that there has to be some kind of love fest between players, as long as they do their job on the field.


I think whoever it was that posted that King resembles Blake in a Leon kind of way may be pretty accurate. If indeed that animosity towards Josh from King is obvious enough for fans to see on the sidelines, then I would surely think its even more obvious amongst the players.
And that type of thing more often than not, can tend to infect the whole team, causing unneccesary dissension and factions developing. Not Good.

I have a hard time buying that King was brought in as part of Denny's 'secret" plan to eventually start him all along. I think he is what he is. An experienced NFL QB that, as long as he doesn't cause trouble, should be a decent backup and capable of taking over the reins on a short term basis, if necessary. That's it.

This whole thing coming down the way it did, once again seems to defy logic.
And based on Green's track record and history, I think he may indeed once again displaying the favoritism that led to so many problems and his eventual
demise in Minnesota.

I don't think King is necessarily one of those. I think you might very well first look to Fitz there. And if he and Quan are grousing around about how many touches they are getting, then it would be right down Denny's alley to cater maybe a little more than he should to their whims. Maybe even to the point that he starts, listening too much to that type of thing and himself gets lured into placing the QB in self limiting positions as to what he allows them to do, or how much he backs them.

For someone who made such a big deal out of Josh being the man, this all is sure coming down super strange right now.

And as I keep repeating....its sure seems more and more like deja vous all over again with the fat man.

Quan made that comment about King and we all wondered what it meant. Quan made it known who he wanted from the start and I doubt he kept quiet while he was getting no yards from Josh.

I'd say it's very likely as Russ pointed out that Boldin gets traded. When he said it to me it made pretty good sense.

Fitz getting drafted in the first place didn't make any sense if you realize you had a ROY at the time that plays his position and I am talking about his actual WR position not just that they are both WR.

Chris Carter went off on the whole draft pick because of the exact worries we have right now. He said if I'm Boldin I'm upset by this and I'd bet he is.

They did not feature Boldin first they featured Fitz and went to Boldin later.

Like Russ said there is no way the agent settles for less than a Fitz sized deal and there is very little chance a duplicate WR gets it from us.

 

[Tangodnzr]

I take your point... but the references to his girth are gratuitous and unnecessary... like your earlier spelling of Simeon as Simian, knowing full well that it refers to an ape... And it's "deja vu" by the way.

Ahh, I see you astuteness level is up to its normal level.

As to the gratuitous and unecessary references to Green's girth.
I don't find that all so unneccessary.

To me fat like that is often a sign of some combination of physical inactivity or laziness and ignorance especially about eating habits and nutrition.

Green has shown nothing that displays much knowledge of any of them.

Some of his first moves made here were to cut the team chiropractor and nutritionist. For what....once again just to prove he could do it? And how he's going to make everyone "tougher"......like him?
Once again, his actions seem to say more than anything: "Do as I say, not as I do."

Stupid, stupid, stupid.

To me a girth like Green's is the very definition of fat.
If fat people don't like being referred to as fat....then don't shoot the messenger,.....skinny down a little.

(and before some of the peanut gallery starts popping off about my disrimination against all fat people....no...I'm perfectly aware that some people inherit genetic traits that give them a "stocky" frame, no matter what they do.
Large does not simply equate to fat in my book. I't doesn't take a Norman Einstein to usually recognize the difference. As George Carlin once said:
"Anyone can say 'hey look at the fat-ass in the tweed coat', and everyone would know who they were referring to.")

 

[Cheesebeef]

(and before some of the peanut gallery starts popping off about my disrimination against all fat people....no...I'm perfectly aware that some people inherit genetic traits that give them a "stocky" frame, no matter what they do.
Large does not simply equate to fat in my book. I't doesn't take a Norman Einstein to usually recognize the difference. As George Carlin once said:
"Anyone can say 'hey look at the fat-ass in the tweed coat', and everyone would know who they were referring to.")

okay - what about your racist comments about "Simian" Rice?

I do find it really amusing that you were calling for LVCARDFREAK to get permanently banned for the site today - that was a good one Tango!

 

[Crimson Warrior]

My goodness. Things seem to have taken a dramatic turn for the worse.

Maybe I buy that Green talked up McCown to make sure that he got Fitz.

But this whole plot that King was "secretly" meant to be the QB for 2004 seems a little weak. If King was his guy, then he would have been out there from day 1.

Maybe Green does believe that King can get it done long term. We'll see. But he'll get the Bidwills riled up if King stinks it up for the rest of season, yet remains number one on the depth chart going into 2005.

I sure the heck hope King plays better next week.

 

[Russ Smith]

Quan made that comment about King and we all wondered what it meant. Quan made it known who he wanted from the start and I doubt he kept quiet while he was getting no yards from Josh.

I'd say it's very likely as Russ pointed out that Boldin gets traded. When he said it to me it made pretty good sense.

Fitz getting drafted in the first place didn't make any sense if you realize you had a ROY at the time that plays his position and I am talking about his actual WR position not just that they are both WR.

Chris Carter went off on the whole draft pick because of the exact worries we have right now. He said if I'm Boldin I'm upset by this and I'd bet he is.

They did not feature Boldin first they featured Fitz and went to Boldin later.

Like Russ said there is no way the agent settles for less than a Fitz sized deal and there is very little chance a duplicate WR gets it from us.

I think the interesting thing if that were to happen, and again I'm not saying it's inevitable, just its possible, is how would the players react?

In Denver I'm told for the most part players were with Shanahan, we had to wait our turn for money, CP should wait his turn. Sharpe was the one guy who really ripped the deal, and he had retired, he said yes someone else can get yards behind that OL but Portis is "special". So far Shanahan looks pretty smart, gets a terrific CB. Droughns is at 4.9 YPC, less than Portis' 5.5 the last 2 years but still great(and Portis is at 3.9 in Washington with no passing attack or OL). So Denver is still winning, Portis looks like a greedy so and so losing , dropoff in stats etc.

If negotiations get dicey and Quan's agent says something in public I really wonder what the reaction would be? I know for the most parts the fans love Quan and would probably take his side, I assume the players would too but I don't know.

I just think the hiring of Rosenhaus was a bad sign, it stinks of the first round of talks with my then agent were not good, the Cards were hardballing, and I realized I needed a more ruthless agent so I got a self professed shark.

 

[TRW]

Isn't it just possible that Denny brought in King just for the reason he stated, to back up Josh. Denny, for whatever reason, thought Josh was the man and got a back up he felt confident could do the job if Josh was injured or didn't get it done. Well, so far, Josh hasn't got it done so Denny made the change. No conspiracy theory, no "plan from the start", just the way things have shaken out.

If King would have lit it up yesterday and the Cards had won the game, Denny if a freakin' genius today instead of a fat, incompetent coach as some now proclaim. I think he handled it poorly and set his team up to fail by doing so but I think we have seen this team rebound from situations like this before.

Also, does anyone think the loss of one Bert Berry MAYBE had a LITTLE bit to do with some of the problem yesterday? How about Dansby and Starks being injured, Hambrick going down, etc., etc. It all contributed to one ugly mess and not ALL of it was S. King's fault. He contributed also, that's for sure, but he certainly moved the team on a couple of occasions better than I've seen Josh do most of the year. It was a complete meltdown by the defense AND the offense that spelled DOOM for the Redbirds yesterday.

I know this won't stop until the next game on this board but my goodness some are sure being ugly here. It seems to go in spurts, this animosity, and we are in a real gusher right now guys. Take a deep breath, calm down and let's try to remain Cardinal fans TOGETHER. We can disagree but the juvenile name calling and foul language needs to stop IMO.

Otherwise, I guess it will be time to move on and stop reading or participating in ASFN. Remember, it's only a game...

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Ahh, I see you astuteness level is up to its normal level.

As to the gratuitous and unecessary references to Green's girth.
I don't find that all so unneccessary.

To me fat like that is often a sign of some combination of physical inactivity or laziness and ignorance especially about eating habits and nutrition.

Green has shown nothing that displays much knowledge of any of them.

Some of his first moves made here were to cut the team chiropractor and nutritionist. For what....once again just to prove he could do it? And how he's going to make everyone "tougher"......like him?
Once again, his actions seem to say more than anything: "Do as I say, not as I do."

Stupid, stupid, stupid.

To me a girth like Green's is the very definition of fat.
If fat people don't like being referred to as fat....then don't shoot the messenger,.....skinny down a little.

(and before some of the peanut gallery starts popping off about my disrimination against all fat people....no...I'm perfectly aware that some people inherit genetic traits that give them a "stocky" frame, no matter what they do.
Large does not simply equate to fat in my book. I't doesn't take a Norman Einstein to usually recognize the difference. As George Carlin once said:
"Anyone can say 'hey look at the fat-ass in the tweed coat', and everyone would know who they were referring to.")

So your references to Green's weight is a public service announcement... who would have guessed.

And, pray tell - what public good was being served when you were calling Simeon Rice - SIMIAN ?

 

[This_Guy]

Isn't it just possible that Denny brought in King just for the reason he stated, to back up Josh. Denny, for whatever reason, thought Josh was the man and got a back up he felt confident could do the job if Josh was injured or didn't get it done. Well, so far, Josh hasn't got it done so Denny made the change. No conspiracy theory, no "plan from the start", just the way things have shaken out.

If King would have lit it up yesterday and the Cards had won the game, Denny if a freakin' genius today instead of a fat, incompetent coach as some now proclaim. I think he handled it poorly and set his team up to fail by doing so but I think we have seen this team rebound from situations like this before.

Also, does anyone think the loss of one Bert Berry MAYBE had a LITTLE bit to do with some of the problem yesterday? How about Dansby and Starks being injured, Hambrick going down, etc., etc. It all contributed to one ugly mess and not ALL of it was S. King's fault. He contributed also, that's for sure, but he certainly moved the team on a couple of occasions better than I've seen Josh do most of the year. It was a complete meltdown by the defense AND the offense that spelled DOOM for the Redbirds yesterday.

I know this won't stop until the next game on this board but my goodness some are sure being ugly here. It seems to go in spurts, this animosity, and we are in a real gusher right now guys. Take a deep breath, calm down and let's try to remain Cardinal fans TOGETHER. We can disagree but the juvenile name calling and foul language needs to stop IMO.

Otherwise, I guess it will be time to move on and stop reading or participating in ASFN. Remember, it's only a game...

Most of your post I do agree with. People need to stop jumping off the deep end here. It was 1 loss, it was just ugly all the way around.

That being said, Denny did not bring in King "just to back up Josh". DG has a history of having 2 QBs he likes capable of starting. That's why he's made the switch so many times in his career.

 

[Russ Smith]

Most of your post I do agree with. People need to stop jumping off the deep end here. It was 1 loss, it was just ugly all the way around.

That being said, Denny did not bring in King "just to back up Josh". DG has a history of having 2 QBs he likes capable of starting. That's why he's made the switch so many times in his career.

So I was farting around on the net and found an interesting article. I'm sure you know but did others know King and Quan both worked out this offseason with Pat Etcheberry in Florida?

I figured they had Florida connections but didn't realize they worked out together.

Before people claim conspiracy, Josh' best friend on the team is Freddie Jones, who kept missing blocks and making him look bad.

 

[Tangodnzr]

So your references to Green's weight is a public service announcement... who would have guessed.

Just trying to do my part as a faithful ASFN "contributor" and answering the beckoning calll of civic duty.

And, pray tell - what public good was being served when you were calling Simeon Rice - SIMIAN ?
Sorry to disappoint you CC but not every single post of mine is intended to necessarily promote the general "public good" per se. In this case just a further subtle emphasis on the low-life I have felt he is.

.

 

[Pariah]

To me fat like that is often a sign of some combination of physical inactivity or laziness and ignorance especially about eating habits and nutrition.

Or, maybe the guy just likes pasta. Not everyone subscribes to your book on fitness and it's virtues.

 

[TRW]

Most of your post I do agree with. People need to stop jumping off the deep end here. It was 1 loss, it was just ugly all the way around.

That being said, Denny did not bring in King "just to back up Josh". DG has a history of having 2 QBs he likes capable of starting. That's why he's made the switch so many times in his career.

Oh, I agree, he didn't bring him in "just to back up Josh". As I said in my post it was to back up Josh in case he was injured or didn't get the job done Denny had success with a variety of QB's before and this is his first year here. Let's see what he does the rest of this season and going into next.

I'm not jumping off the bandwagon.

 

[ajcardfan]

So your references to Green's weight is a public service announcement... who would have guessed.

And, pray tell - what public good was being served when you were calling Simeon Rice - SIMIAN ?

A similar reference to a player resulted in Howard Cosell being forced off of MNF. But, Tango and Howard are in that same generation.

 

[conraddobler]

Most of your post I do agree with. People need to stop jumping off the deep end here. It was 1 loss, it was just ugly all the way around.

That being said, Denny did not bring in King "just to back up Josh". DG has a history of having 2 QBs he likes capable of starting. That's why he's made the switch so many times in his career.

Have you and Shaun King ever been photographed apart?

Where were you yesterday at 1 to 4:30 eastern time...hmmmmmmmm

Veeeee have ways upf making u tallk...

 

[Crazy Canuck]

.

Tango, "Subtle" means not immediately obvious.

Your "Simian" remark hardly qualifies and there is considerable difference between calling someone a "low life" and referring to racial sterotypes.

 

[Tangodnzr]

Tango, "Subtle" means not immediately obvious.

Your "Simian" remark hardly qualifies and there is considerable difference between calling someone a "low life" and referring to racial sterotypes.

Now people can play word games all they want. I can do that too.
Of course Simian has been used by some purely as a racial epithet.

But in my belief system we all, regardless of the pigmentation of our skin, basically evolved from the same sources.

Some people's brain evidently didn't evolve as much as the rest of their body.
Rice is one, in my estimation. I could really care less what color his skin is.
I've got relatives I consider equally as neanderthal as that low life.

Some people seem bent on making mountains out of mole hills or building mental castles in the sky.

 

[red desert]

Ed -

I accept your point. Cool. Bledsoe could post big numbers for us next year.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Excellent article Ed, based with thoughtful analysis. You put my thoughts about Josh quite well, much better than I can.

 

[azwulf]

I could Not disagree more with this article. Especially the part about Fitz.


I will post my view on that later when I have some more time.

 

[cardpa]

I only get to see the 10 minute highlight provided by the NFL network on our on demand channel, however after seeing it King did not play poorly as some here insist upon. The fumbles were for the most part missed blocks where King got blindsided. Two of the three INTs were deflected passes and the one at the goalline was a direct result of pi$$ poor blocking. King hardly had the snap and there were Panthers in the backfield they got such good penetration. I personally want to see what he will do with a full week to work with the WRs and hopefully some type of running game.

Is King the answer long term I think not however I do see him as an upgrade from McCown. Until they fix the offensive O line it won't matter who is in the backfield.

 

[john h]

That was the whole point of taking Fitz over a QB though right? If we did, we wouldn't need a franchise QB, that was Denny's whole plan.

To me at least, our most important need at draft time last year was a QB. McCown had shown nothing. We had Quan and another good receiver already on board. We were in a position to draft what may have been one of the better group of QB's in some years. I think Green drafted Fitz because he was very good and ALSO becasue of his past history with him and his family. I further think we are making what Green did or did not think much more complicated than it really was. He clearly thought McCown would develop even though he had no such evidence to support this. If he did not like him why on earth would he start him for all these games? He now knows just how much upside McCown has. None! He will now play King, probably the rest of the way, to see if he is worth keeping. In hindsight Green made a mistake in not drafting a QB. We now have three potential pro bowl receivers and you can bet eventually one will leave and another high draft choice will have gone for naught. We are already feeling the heat from Quan as he wants more money. We cannot tie up our payroll in receivers as we are going to have to pay for a QB sooner or later. They do not come cheap if they are any good. Green is no deep thinker as many of these post suggest. What you are seeing is what you get. A QB who cannot get the ball to perhaps the best receiving corps in the NFL and one of the worst running games in the NFL. A sure formula for losing. Answer: One or two strong young runners and a QB who can get the ball to our strength - our receivers.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

To me at least, our most important need at draft time last year was a QB. McCown had shown nothing. We had Quan and another good receiver already on board. We were in a position to draft what may have been one of the better group of QB's in some years. I think Green drafted Fitz because he was very good and ALSO becasue of his past history with him and his family. I further think we are making what Green did or did not think much more complicated than it really was. He clearly thought McCown would develop even though he had no such evidence to support this. If he did not like him why on earth would he start him for all these games? He now knows just how much upside McCown has. None! He will now play King, probably the rest of the way, to see if he is worth keeping. In hindsight Green made a mistake in not drafting a QB. We now have three potential pro bowl receivers and you can bet eventually one will leave and another high draft choice will have gone for naught. We are already feeling the heat from Quan as he wants more money. We cannot tie up our payroll in receivers as we are going to have to pay for a QB sooner or later. They do not come cheap if they are any good.

You must be psychic...

You can actually, without a seeming doubt in your mind - say that JOSH has no real future. I don't know this... but somehow you do.

Tell me how that can be?

(As I mentioned in a previous post: There was a city full of psychics who said the same as you about TERRY BRADSHAW after his rookie 6 TD - 24 interception campaign)

 

[JC_AZ]

If...

the consensus is that Josh and King SUCK.. then go with the most accurate passer of the bunch and hope the line doesn'e get him killed...

Navarre is by far the most accurate passer and the only one with a chance of being there in the future... PUT HIM IN and let the fans get behind him and see what he can do!

WTF