ASU Basketball (2012-13)

[MaoTosiFanClub]

He definitely needs to work on his shooting, but other than that, he's NBA ready right now. He may be small, but he's strong, I look at him like a Brandon Jennings type player...a little shorter, but stronger.

I can't remember another college kid who can finish like him around the rim, bad angles or not.

He's Chris Paul without the jumpshot or Rajon Rondo without the length.

 

[Mathew81]

Not updated I don't believe. Trust me, scouts are all over the kid.

I think one of the biggest factors other than his talent in going pro is his age. He's already 20.5 years old which probably makes him the oldest non-Mormon freshman player in the country due to sitting out last year.

Speaking of age, I was discussing Harden's freshman year vs. Carson's freshman year on another forum and I looked up their ages. Harden is only 3 years older than Carson. Jahii turned 20 this last August. Harden turned 20 in August '09, right when he was about to begin his rookie year in the NBA. I had forgotten that he was only 17 when he signed with ASU.

If Bachynski were to leave this year it would be due to his age. It would be a HUGE mistake but the NBA draft history is littered with guys were drafted for just being tall. He's 23 already (only 11 days younger than Harden in fact) and big guys usually don't last that long into their 30's.

 

[AsUdUdE]

Not updated I don't believe. Trust me, scouts are all over the kid.

I think one of the biggest factors other than his talent in going pro is his age. He's already 20.5 years old which probably makes him the oldest non-Mormon freshman player in the country due to sitting out last year. And when guys of similar height like Phil Pressey are being projected in the top 40 I doubt the kid stays around and becomes a 23-24 year old college player. He'll work on his shot and likely leave after next year (staying three years) and be in the boat same as NateRob, Damon Stoudamire, Isaiah Thomas, Phil Pressey, etc.

It says it was updated this morning..

The age thing is a good point, I think that could make a difference in him coming out after his sophomore year vs later..

I think he is a great athlete, but there just aren't really any examples of a guy who I have friends of the program swear he is a lot closer to 5'8-5'9, being successful in todays NBA without a jump shot or a top elite athlete like Nate Robinson...

His best comparison is probably Isaiah Thomas who was the last pick of the 2011 draft, but by all accounts while Thomas was a slightly better athlete coming out of school one of his big assets was he was a very capable shooter especially from the three.. That is Carson's biggest weakness..

5'9 guards who can't shoot are rarely effective in the NBA, especially today..

Again, that is not to say he will "for sure" stay or he can't be successful in the NBA, or that he can't develop a solid jump shot, but until that happens, I have a hard time believing there will be many teams in the first round willing to take him...

And why leave early if you are not guaranteed a spot in the first round..

 

[AsUdUdE]

He's Chris Paul without the jumpshot or Rajon Rondo without the length.

That could work as a comparison for their talent and competitive spirit.. but Rondo is anywhere from 4 to 6 inches taller

Paul is 3 inches taller and his jump shot helps to make him elite..

If Carson had a killer jumper I absolutely agree he would be a solid prospect, but what is to keep NBA teams from just sagging off of him at the next level...

5'8-5'10 PGs who can't shoot are not exactly a threat offensively in today's NBA..

 

[AsUdUdE]

Speaking of age, I was discussing Harden's freshman year vs. Carson's freshman year on another forum and I looked up their ages. Harden is only 3 years older than Carson. Jahii turned 20 this last August. Harden turned 20 in August '09, right when he was about to begin his rookie year in the NBA. I had forgotten that he was only 17 when he signed with ASU.

If Bachynski were to leave this year it would be due to his age. It would be a HUGE mistake but the NBA draft history is littered with guys were drafted for just being tall. He's 23 already (only 11 days younger than Harden in fact) and big guys usually don't last that long into their 30's.

Agreed, it is always a possibility, but his complete dearth of any offensive game to speak of at all seems to say he stays his full four years... he is a second round guy at best if he comes out this year and that does not guarantee a contract, so why not just stay one more year to see if you can sneak into the first round and get a 2-3 year deal...

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

I think he is a great athlete, but there just aren't really any examples of a guy who I have friends of the program swear he is a lot closer to 5'8-5'9, being successful in todays NBA without a jump shot or a top elite athlete like Nate Robinson...

His best comparison is probably Isaiah Thomas who was the last pick of the 2011 draft, but by all accounts while Thomas was a slightly better athlete coming out of school one of his big assets was he was a very capable shooter especially from the three.. That is Carson's biggest weakness..

5'9 guards who can't shoot are rarely effective in the NBA, especially today..

Again, that is not to say he will "for sure" stay or he can't be successful in the NBA, or that he can't develop a solid jump shot, but until that happens, I have a hard time believing there will be many teams in the first round willing to take him...

Nate Rob and Isiah aren't good comparisons because those guys played off the ball for most of their college careers. The best comparison like I said earlier is Phil Pressey who is projected as a top 40 pick in a few months. Pressey's not a good shooter either and has about half of the athleticism as Carson.

Bachynski has zero shot of playing in the NBA. I suppose he could leave early and start his financial clock overseas like a lot of guys do but wouldn't surprise me either if he comes back. Probably depends on his family's money situation and of he plans on staying in the States or moving back to Canada (where an ASU degree is essentially worthless).

 

[Absolute Zero]

Nate Rob and Isiah aren't good comparisons because those guys played off the ball for most of their college careers. The best comparison like I said earlier is Phil Pressey who is projected as a top 40 pick in a few months. Pressey's not a good shooter either and has about half of the athleticism as Carson.

Bachynski has zero shot of playing in the NBA. I suppose he could leave early and start his financial clock overseas like a lot of guys do but wouldn't surprise me either if he comes back. Probably depends on his family's money situation and of he plans on staying in the States or moving back to Canada (where an ASU degree is essentially worthless).

Maybe he can transfer and get a degree from U of A, which could be used as toilet paper in virtually any country.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Maybe he can transfer and get a degree from U of A, which could be used as toilet paper in virtually any country.

Most American degrees are worthless in other countries unless it's a specialty. Didn't mean as a slam on ASU, same thought applies to most UA degrees. Hell most UA and ASU degrees don't mean crap in Phoenix let alone Alberta.

 

[AsUdUdE]

Nate Rob and Isiah aren't good comparisons because those guys played off the ball for most of their college careers. The best comparison like I said earlier is Phil Pressey who is projected as a top 40 pick in a few months. Pressey's not a good shooter either and has about half of the athleticism as Carson.

Bachynski has zero shot of playing in the NBA. I suppose he could leave early and start his financial clock overseas like a lot of guys do but wouldn't surprise me either if he comes back. Probably depends on his family's money situation and of he plans on staying in the States or moving back to Canada (where an ASU degree is essentially worthless).

Fair enough I don't know a lot about Pressey, but when you look at the NBA, there really aren't any comparisons for him.. so I guess we are in unknown territory, or we can see how well Pressey does next year

 

[Absolute Zero]

He's Chris Paul without the jumpshot or Rajon Rondo without the length.

Looks like Brevin Knight is pretty high on Carson as a true point gaurd after finally watching him play:

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/asu...jahii-carson-emerges-top-freshman-nation.html

 

[Mathew81]

Tough loss tonight. Jahii was amazing again but we just couldn't stop UW. They had too much length and athleticism. Bachynski played pretty bad as well.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Fair enough I don't know a lot about Pressey, but when you look at the NBA, there really aren't any comparisons for him.. so I guess we are in unknown territory, or we can see how well Pressey does next year

There is comparisons out there. Brevin Knight and TJ Ford were both high picks and marginal shooters under 6' who had productive NBA careers. Damon Stoudamire was a great shooter but nowhere close to Carson athletically but again was 5'10 and went lottery. The point is that Carson is so dominant out there than it's highly unlikely he stays all four years. That just happens when you are fortunate enough to acquire high level basketball players. I know that probably 2 of Arizona's current frosh are probably gone after next season, doesn't mean I'm going to nitpick their games in a selfish effort to keep them in school.

 

[HooverDam]

Most American degrees are worthless in other countries unless it's a specialty. Didn't mean as a slam on ASU, same thought applies to most UA degrees. Hell most UA and ASU degrees don't mean crap in Phoenix let alone Alberta.

Sure thing, thats why American colleges campuses are bursting at the seems with foreign born students, right? American degrees are worth a ton, thousands upon thousands of foreign students flock to the US (including ASU and UA) so they can proudly bring a degree from an American institution back home.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Sure thing, thats why American colleges campuses are bursting at the seems with foreign born students, right? American degrees are worth a ton, thousands upon thousands of foreign students flock to the US (including ASU and UA) so they can proudly bring a degree from an American institution back home.

Yeah for specialties (law, medicine, engineering, etc.) not the degrees that 99% of basketball players and the majority of our state schools undergraduates study.

 

[TJ]

Yeah for specialties (law, medicine, engineering, etc.) not the degrees that 99% of basketball players and the majority of our state schools undergraduates study.

Even for law, education, and medicine, you still have to take that country's proprietary board examination just to practice that profession.

 

[AsUdUdE]

There is comparisons out there. Brevin Knight and TJ Ford were both high picks and marginal shooters under 6' who had productive NBA careers. Damon Stoudamire was a great shooter but nowhere close to Carson athletically but again was 5'10 and went lottery. The point is that Carson is so dominant out there than it's highly unlikely he stays all four years. That just happens when you are fortunate enough to acquire high level basketball players. I know that probably 2 of Arizona's current frosh are probably gone after next season, doesn't mean I'm going to nitpick their games in a selfish effort to keep them in school.

lol.. do you really think I am "nitpicking" for selfish reasons?

All those guys you mentioned, were drafted over a decade ago..

Sure in the late 90's early 2000s small PGs could be relatively effective even if they couldn't shoot..

In the past 10 years, the game has changed.. Small PGs are rare, small PG's who are starters, there are none...

Can you name the last small PG (under 6') who went in the lottery? Some can argue DJ Augustine, but he is still listed at 6'

In the past 15 years there has been 2 players drafted in the first round that were under 6 feet: Nate Robinson and Speedy Claxton..

It's like saying your 5'9 College QB is awesome and definitely declaring early to go to the NFL.. He could be an amazing college QB, but there is not a lot of precedent for 5'9 college QBs succeeding in the NFL..

Just like there are not a lot of examples of sub 6' guards succeeding in todays NBA..

I am not saying he can't be successful, I am definitely not saying he will or won't stay the full 4 years.. what I am simply saying is while he is a GREAT college PG already, there just are not any comparisons in todays NBA..

 

[AsUdUdE]

and just for the record.. I agree with you, I think he will even consider leaving THIS year but ultimately will come back for one more year and leave after next season..

And I will ofcourse be a huge Carson fan in the NBA, but I have close friends who are big into the program, they swear Jahii is a lot closer to 5'8ish than 5'10, he can't go left, he can't shoot, and his defense is a little spotty to be nice..

but he is a great ball handler, athletic as heck, and is a winner, those things can not be understated...

I am not saying this in hope he stays, I am just being completely objective.. he is a gamer for sure, and for selfish reasons I hope he succeeds on the NBA level, I am just not convinced he will, because of his size and lack of shooting,

pointing out his height and shooting limitations are not nitpicking, that is simply stating a fact....

In the end, we will find out who is more right.. This is an argument I hope I lose..

 

[Mathew81]

Big game against Cal tonight. We can't afford home losses at this point if we want to have any shot at the tournament. 4 home games left, have to go 4-0.

 

[AsUdUdE]

agreed.. have to have the urgency for this one..

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Only games ASU can afford to lose are the UA, CU, and UCLA games. Any losses outside of that and they're going to need a P12 Tourney run.

Assuming of course they don't win one of those aforementioned roadies.

 

[AsUdUdE]

Just got home from the game.. it was 3 parts great one part terrible..

It was great to see the team play as well as it did, mainly Gordon/Pateev.. and to see the team win despite a sub par game from Carson AND Felix...

Even though the Devils almost blew it at the end (I swear I was reliving the USC game all over again) they found a way to hold on and come away with a solid W.. Any ASU fan can tell you against Cal in the past decade, those have been hard to come by..

Saturday is HUGE..

Hopefully we will see a big turnout at Wells Fargo Arena....

 

[Mathew81]

Jeez that ended up being much closer than it should have been. Bachynski has completely disappeared the last couple of games. Pateev really stepped up today and we controlled the first 3/4 of that game. But we only scored 6 points the last 8 minutes and 4 of those were FTs with under a minute left. Just a brutal end to the game. Good thing Cal looked completely clueless on their last couple of possessions.

1 win down, probably 6 more to go.

 

[Mathew81]

Only games ASU can afford to lose are the UA, CU, and UCLA games. Any losses outside of that and they're going to need a P12 Tourney run.

Assuming of course they don't win one of those aforementioned roadies.

I think 24 wins would get us in, 23 would be iffy and 22 would put us in the NIT.

 

[AsUdUdE]

I think 24 wins would get us in, 23 would be iffy and 22 would put us in the NIT.

22 in the regular season with 2 wins in the PAC tourney I think still might gets us in..

 

[AsUdUdE]

So many missed opportunities it was one of the craziest games I have ever seen...

If the Devils miss the tourney they really have no one to blame but themselves.. It's insane how bad they are from the line.. Just ridiculous..

This game they shot 34% from the field, 30% from 3 point land, and 50% from the FT line.. AND STILL HAD A CHANCE TO TIE AT THE END..

This was a game the Devils could not afford to lose..