At Odds (Not Oz) With Whiz

[MrYeahBut]

Enjoy your comments, but please include some paragraph breaks.

enjoy his comments also but its like reading ee cummings

 

[binkar]

Terrible assistant coaches, no offensive coordinator, Beanie being the 4th RB in the game, no effort to establish a running game, and in a position to start an undrafted rookie free agent. Not a big "In Whiz I trust" kinda guy right now.

 

[Duckjake]

Speaking of players lost, we got rid of the right ones. Dansby is very overrated.....

Washington, a Tampa-2 player brought in 3-4 defense. He is even worse (much worse in fact) than Dansby against the run. I still have to see him coming of a block and making an impact. Teams run his way intentionally. TE's have no problem with him, yet alone offensive lineman. As fast as he may be, he is not a complete LB.

 

[Duckjake]

Problem on defense is Billy Davis and the scheme.

I agree some of the sets have been head scratchers especially the Haggens,Dockett,Campbell,Porter front 4.

I looked at parts of games from other 3-4 teams and the Cards are the only ones I saw that line up their OLBs like 4-3 DEs in close to the Tackles and in a 3 or 4 point stance. That is no place to put 250lb guys who are over 30.

But the Cards had the same problems in 2008 with Clancy that they did in 2009 and 2010 with Davis. That too is a head scratcher.

I still think that the Cards are too small to run the 3-4 the way they are trying to run it. Adding an undersized ILB, and I like DWashington's speed and hustle, didn't help any.

The Cards have given up 130 yards rushing or more 9 times in their last 16 games. To me that is a sign that the defense is getting overpowered.

 

[Early]

I agree some of the sets have been head scratchers especially the Haggens,Dockett,Campbell,Porter front 4.

I looked at parts of games from other 3-4 teams and the Cards are the only ones I saw that line up their OLBs like 4-3 DEs in close to the Tackles and in a 3 or 4 point stance. That is no place to put 250lb guys who are over 30.

But the Cards had the same problems in 2008 with Clancy that they did in 2009 and 2010 with Davis. That too is a head scratcher.

I still think that the Cards are too small to run the 3-4 the way they are trying to run it. Adding an undersized ILB, and I like DWashington's speed and hustle, didn't help any.

The Cards have given up 130 yards rushing or more 9 times in their last 16 games. To me that is a sign that the defense is getting overpowered.

It's not about size only, it's more about what type of players we have. Dockett suits the Tampa-2 best. As awsome passrusher as he is, he is just as bad in other areas such as rungame and especially the plays going away from his gap where he is needed in pursuit. He can't pursuit along the line because the only thing he can do is penetration and is out of the play. He can't free up the LB behind him. First speed step is the name of his game, without ever reading the play, and he can't play with that initial powerstep and read and react style of defensive football.

This means that you need a thumper SILB and a safety such as Wilson in the box to make up for all that in the rungame. These two have been doing exactly that in recent years and in terms of the rungame it has been more than adequate. However, bringing Wilson in the box and playing Hayes on early downs has been hurting our pass coverage. When Dockett has been able to get to the QB though, that defense has been able to stop the pass as well. When not, the defense was abused. With other words, cardinals defense was as good as Dockett was in getting to the QB. The games where he was able to get to the QB were exactly the games where this defense stepped up and looked good. When he is not present, everything falls down. Can you imagine Dockett in Tampa-2? Where his lack of run awareness and pursuit is covered by the extra 2 corners underneath in addition to the 3 LB's and 3 other lineman? He would be the center of a great defense. He can't be that in this scheme since his skills don't suit it and too many adjustments need to be made behind him to make up for that.

It's far from only Dockett not suiting the scheme. We are out of sync on most positions. DRC and Toler are made to play man coverage. Yet we call zone most of the time and with them playing 5-10 yards of the man. Even in man coverage we play them 10 yards off which make the slants impossible to deal with. We give no chance for these players to play well since their skills don't suit the scheme. They can't read the plays (especially DRC) and game in and game out the mistakes are obvious and cost us alot of points.

AW is a terrific box player. He is great in covering zones underneath and deep in double coverage. He is a great blitzer and in recognizing running lanes and is tackling well. But we use him in man coverage in all games on TE's? It results in a TD's very often and i don't know how many times we need to see that before Davis realizes that he CAN't cover man to man? Play your corners man to man and let him double in zone and blitz and bring him in the box to stop the run and cover the flat. That's what he does exceptionally well, so why change it? It's horrible playcalling!

As i mentioned with Dockett, he needs a LB, a thumper behind him to cover up all the mistakes. Dockett does not free up LB's like we know from typical 2 gap schemes. It's the other way arround in fact: Hayes used to free up Dockett to penetrate and not do anything else. Now we have Washington and Lenon? None of them are able to play that thumper and because of that we have big problems stopping the run. At very least Lenon should be covering the guard that Dockett lets go to the second level every freaking time. And the embarassing part is that Washington has gotten that responsibility few times as i can see. That should never happen and that resulted in big runs.

All these players are good, from Dockett to even Washington ( he would be good in Tampa - 2) but if they don't suit the scheme, it doesn't matter. The defense is as good as it players fit the scheme. We have different skillsets and confusing scheme that does not suit everyone.

What we need is someone like Hayes on SILB and use Wilson in the box. Washington would be more free in that case playing behind Watson or Robinson just like Dansby did and would fit the scheme better. Next to Lenon he doesn't. At very least this style of defense was effective against the run.

 

[ReddBird]

I just wanted to write some of my opinions on this.

I think that Whiz is doing a great job. He took over the franchise and made some important changes that few HC's would have done. He played Warner, while most, if not all HC's would have played the safe card together with the ownership and gone with Leinart.

This year, we are in transition. Most teams in transition are 0-4 after 4 weeks. Perhaps, late in the season, some of these teams are able to find some chemistry and win few games. But we are actually 0.5 team and since game one we are still on top of the division. That is impressive considering how many players we lost.

Speaking of players lost, we got rid of the right ones. Dansby is very overrated and so is Rolle. Problem on defense is Billy Davis and the scheme. In the end, Whiz should be blamed for this. He is not a defensively minded coach at all. Davis is just a horrible coordinator and that is very easy to see. We do not play to our strengths on defense. We don't have the scheme to match our skills. It does not matter if we had some of the best defensive players of the NFL when Davis is calling the plays and setting the scheme. It has certainly nothing to do with Dansby and Rolle either. We had the worst defense NFL has ever seen with these guys being the "heart" of the defense. So it's not that at all.

That being said, some wrong draft choices were made. Washington, a Tampa-2 player brought in 3-4 defense. He is even worse (much worse in fact) than Dansby against the run. I still have to see him coming of a block and making an impact. Teams run his way intentionally. TE's have no problem with him, yet alone offensive lineman. As fast as he may be, he is not a complete LB.

Losing Hayes hurts alot. He was the heart of defense, setting the physical aspects and absolutely destroying any attempt of running against this defense. Injury is not something Whiz could prevent. Losing Warner is due to his age and him playing his final year. It does not matter who was the HC, I don't believe that would have made the difference. He plays for love of the game and not for who is the HC or not. Unlike Favre, he is a mature man and he seems to know that in that age, there is much more in life than just football. His health and family seem to be more important and that's the way it should be.

Dan Williams is very inconsistent as well. That has nothing to do with weight. Both these players are inconsistent (Washington) and very flashy at times when they make some plays. Personally I don't like those type of players at all. Same goes with Beanie. He is a bad RB. Yes, i said it. Flashy runs from time to time but very inconsistent in his vision of the lanes that develop and just horrible in all aspects of blocking recieving and knowing the plays. When you invest a 1st round choice in a RB, one expect domination, since this is by far the easiest position in NFL besides punters, and the one with easiest transition as well. In addition, he is just as soft as he was in college, injured all the time. I can see why Whiz has problems with Beanie. He is not a complete footballplayer. Situational for sure, but not complete as Hightower is.

Who made the choice on drafting is hard to tell. It's impossible to use reductionism here and say wheter it is Whiz or Graves etc. It could be numerous people and it could be combination of several.

What the best HC's have in common: Adjusting. There has been so many problems with our team in recent years and just when everyone thinks that this team is going down, Whiz seems to adjust when it matters the most and make this team Win. Being 0.5 footballteam after that many changes and rookie UDFA QB playing, is certainly also impressive. It can only get better from now on.

Sure, there are many mistakes. Like signing Anderson. That dude has to be the most inaccurate passer in the history of the game. I am more accurate than him! I Love many other aspects of his game, and i'm sure Whiz and company has been amazed by that as well, knowing how much toughness and heart mean for a QB. he actually does have those skills. But with that bad accuracy and touch, there is no way he can be a good QB.

Hall has been nothing short of impressive. Whiz has been able to find his guy in a very hard situation. He has done something no other HC would have done. Getting rid of what everyone saw as "QBOTF" Heismann winner Leinart because he knew what he had in Max Hall. That reminds me alot about the Warner decision. I respect that. It's risky, but it shows what type of HC he is.

Hall had an amazing energy in his game against Chargers. He is going to be a good QB. This offense will be good again. We have good group of recievers and after a few games where Hall settles in, this can very well become a very explosive unit. A huge problems are the tackles, but I have confidence that this will be fixed. Perhaps we will see Levi going back to the RT. Faneca sucks in pass protection as well. The line is the concern on offense, but with a good QB and recievers, even that will not be a problem.

Defense is a huge issue. And that's where Whiz needs to be blamed. He does not seem to be able to build a dominating defense. Handing the job over to Davis just proves that. DRC is getting owned in zone coverage and that is destroying his confidence. We do not play to our strengths at all. If we played DRC man to man and played double coverage on the other side, it would lead to a very strong defensive scheme, despite not unpredictable.

There are plenty of mistakes, and I hated the press conference as well. Some of the comments were not needed. When Warner got the chance to start his first game the Rams HC said following: " We will play Kurt Warner, and we will win". I wish that Whiz came out and said the same thing about Max Hall.

He is an old school HC and he will adjust to this situation. Even without adjustment so far and everything going bad, he has found a way to win half of the games and lead the division. Once Max Halls starts to excel and we put up alot of points, this will be a different story.

But with his lack of defensive understanding, i'm afraid that he will never win the superbowl as a HC.

Since Whiz came within one play of winning a Superbowl, I disagree with the last statement. Other than that, Early, I was glad to read your comments. As much as I've enjoyed Mitch in the past, I thought this post was over-the-top and filled with despair. His unhappiness clouded his view of the Cardinals and Whiz.

Until we find someone who can protect our QB, we're going to lose games. Doesn't matter who's in the pocket, you rock and rattle and crush the guy often enough, he's gonna screw up. Keep doing it and he'll screw up faster and faster. Right now, Max Hall is a better choice than DA if only because of his enthusiasm for the game. He's not worried about getting his head crushed in...not yet, anyway.

If we're gonna win, Beanie and Tim need to be running (and NOT FUMBLING) for yardage. Until we get a decent defense, the Cards are going to play catch-up and that means they'll throw/throw/throw the ball.

Do I think Whiz is a great coach? Well, Warner says he is. Two years ago, everybody on this board said he was. Last year, everybody on this board said he was. Four games into a rough season, Early still says he is...and I agree with him.

 

[joko4]

I agree with Mitch 90% of the time, but hey Mitch, we are going with a rookie ,excuse me but a, "udrafted rookie"! You have to either get on the bus now or buy a more expensive ticket later. I make a toast right now comrades, to Kurt Warner and little Kurt Jr., that would be Maximus Hall. I toast Max for future greatness, and for the Cardinal organization to not throw him under the bus like the Rams and Giants did the future HOF Kurt Warner, may the Cardinals and Warner put Max Hall under there protective wing and destroy the NFC! May our destiny march on.....
In Wiz we trust...right on

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Huge win. Hopefully this will chill out the Anti-Whis crew.

 

[desertdawg]

Huge win. Hopefully this will chill out the Anti-Whis crew.

this.

 

[Shane]

Huge win. Hopefully this will chill out the Anti-Whis crew.

Next loss they will be back.

 

[azsouthendzone]

Huge win. Hopefully this will chill out the Anti-Whis crew.

Consider it chilled. Can't argue with the results of this one.

 

[desertdawg]

Next loss they will be back.

We gonna whoop on the seachickens.

 

[azsouthendzone]

Next loss they will be back.

Criticism when it is deserved, praise when it is deserved as well. Wins are not required, but effort is. Whiz got this team prepared and so did B. Davis. Great win and hopefully they will build on it.

 

[Duckjake]

Next loss they will be back.

Our offense is now averaging 10.2 points a game and had to get a Levi Brown TD run to get even one score. So I'm still here.

The only way the Cards could win today was with turnovers and that is what happened. Something the Cards D seems to come up with in bunches every 4-5 games. Just like I predicted. Heck they even scored on their own fumble.

What a wild and satisfying win and it fits right in with the rest of the crazy games in Cardinal history.

BTW the game was on the radio here. Spent the day outside in fabulous weather listening to the game just like when I was a kid and my Dad would hang outside all day listening to the Longhorns. But then I walked into the house looked in the mirror and saw I was still old. Old but happy!

 

[Rats]

Our offense is now averaging 10.2 points a game and had to get a Levi Brown TD run to get even one score. So I'm still here.

The only way the Cards could win today was with turnovers and that is what happened. Something the Cards D seems to come up with in bunches every 4-5 games. Just like I predicted. Heck they even scored on their own fumble.

What a wild and satisfying win and it fits right in with the rest of the crazy games in Cardinal history.

BTW the game was on the radio here. Spent the day outside in fabulous weather listening to the game just like when I was a kid and my Dad would hang outside all day listening to the Longhorns. But then I walked into the house looked in the mirror and saw I was still old. Old but happy!

No negativity today after a great win delivered by a prepared Team(Thanks to Whiz) and a well prepared Defense(Thanks to B. Davis). The Crowd is truly the 12 man. Amazing upset and tremendous win that saves the season IMO.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Our offense is now averaging 10.2 points a game and had to get a Levi Brown TD run to get even one score. So I'm still here.

The only way the Cards could win today was with turnovers and that is what happened. Something the Cards D seems to come up with in bunches every 4-5 games. Just like I predicted. Heck they even scored on their own fumble.

What a wild and satisfying win and it fits right in with the rest of the crazy games in Cardinal history.

BTW the game was on the radio here. Spent the day outside in fabulous weather listening to the game just like when I was a kid and my Dad would hang outside all day listening to the Longhorns. But then I walked into the house looked in the mirror and saw I was still old. Old but happy!

 

[Duckjake]

No negativity today after a great win delivered by a prepared Team(Thanks to Whiz) and a well prepared Defense(Thanks to B. Davis). The Crowd is truly the 12 man. Amazing upset and tremendous win that saves the season IMO.

I love the win especially since it went exactly like I thought it had to for us to win.

But 1.7 yards per carry rushing and 3.4 yards per offensive play are still things to be concerned about. As well as still playing poor defense outside the red zone.

Ah well no big deal we have two weeks to get Breaston and Doucet healthy and get the O back on track.

 

[MrYeahBut]

I love the win especially since it went exactly like I thought it had to for us to win.

But 1.7 yards per carry rushing and 3.4 yards per offensive play are still things to be concerned about. As well as still playing poor defense outside the red zone.

Ah well no big deal we have two weeks to get Breaston and Doucet healthy and get the O back on track.

I love the fact that the Cards got all the bounces they never, I mean never get. I hope it keeps up

 

[Duckjake]

I love the fact that the Cards got all the bounces they never, I mean never get. I hope it keeps up

I hear you. I thought I was in the twilight zone when I heard the announcer say that Levi had picked up the Hall fumble and run it in for a TD.

Now, how many of you thought for sure that either the loose helmet or advancing a fumble would negate the TD. I almost broke my fingers I was crossing them so hard.

 

[Cardiac]

I hear you. I thought I was in the twilight zone when I heard the announcer say that Levi had picked up the Hall fumble and run it in for a TD.

Now, how many of you thought for sure that either the loose helmet or advancing a fumble would negate the TD. I almost broke my fingers I was crossing them so hard.

I still don't know why the advanching a fumble was allowed.

I'm sure your fingers are as strong as any muscle in your entire body, you have been a Cards fan crossing fingers for quite some time.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Huge win. Hopefully this will chill out the Anti-Whis crew.

Probably not. We are still a bad team. Our basement is scary and our ceiling is a one and done playoff trip made possible by the NFC West. However, considering the offseason personnel losses, I'm fine with our current situation.

We are 3 - 2 at a point when 2 - 3 would have satisfied most posters 2 months ago. We have a road win in division and have only played 2 home games. Max, though shaky, is clearly a better option than DA and our defense has shown the ability to make big plays. If we can just get a little more effective at both running the ball and stopping the run we have a good chance to reach our ceiling. Can't ask for more than that, IMO.

Steve