At todays practice..

[TJ]

Here it is, once again...a QB goes 7-2 and deserves absolutely zero credit for it. The stupidest, most asinine statement possible. He has had and may still have major issues. No one has ever denied this, not even 'Skelton apologists'. He also brought skills to the table that CERTAINLY AND UNDENIABLY helped win games. Only a flat-out moron would deny that.



No, Skelton can do wrong--plenty of wrong--which Skelton backers like myself have enumerated time and again. The problem is, people will insist on saying he had zero, zip, nil, nada, zilch, to do with any teensy little part of winning the games. The above post proves the point, once again.

Here we go, sports fans...once and for all...I am putting out a roll call for idiots on here...anyone want to step forward, accept the dunce badge, and say that Skelton's play had nothing to do with us winning games last season? I am not making a personal attack, as I am attacking a completely indefensible and moronic viewpoint. Anyone want to say it? Bring it.

Seriously? Now you have to go "personal attack" on me and the rest of the board because I merely pointed out numerous deficiencies to the "Skelton wins ball games" argument.

Sorry, I don't stoop down to that level.

 

[THESMEL]

durrrrty

Well Skelton is younger, stronger, tougher and a winner So with all that I agree with you- but the prssure is on Kolb too seperate himself from the less touted and less paid. I haven't seen it, yea they have different QB skillsets but they grade out about equal overall.

Kolb has starter pay- looking like a back up- Skelton has back up pay- looking like the starter. If Whiz and Miller ever pull their head out of their AZ and balance the philosphy, practice and gameplan..... I start Skelton and let him finish developing on the field long term.

He won't be a fully developed NFL QB for 2 full years but he is durable and the offense is not giving u as much p ground it already gained. It should not be this close of a QB competition ...

Kolb is underachieving more than Skelton is excelling, IMO.






uote=Krangthebrain;2661478]Now I'm going to throw out the absolute improbable:

If Kolb doesn't get hurt and the defense has it's late season turn around, do you think Kolb could have done the same? That's my thoughts on the matter, I think it was a team effort, while Skelton apologists such as yourself counter any Skelton criticism with:

7-2!

DURRRR!

That's how I see it; Skelton apologists give him way too much credit. He is the love child of Jake Plummer and Kent Graham. He has the Durrr! look of Jake Plummer with his flair for late game theatrics but also the terrible play the first 3 quarters of the game. And he has the great size and horrific accuracy of Kent Graham (who also had late game moments).

So answer your roll call for dunce badges, but you may want to get in the long line of the "I told you so" that I will be feeding you when John Skelton is a journeyman QB 5 years from now.[/quote]

 

[Stout]

Now I'm going to throw out the absolute improbable:

If Kolb doesn't get hurt and the defense has it's late season turn around, do you think Kolb could have done the same? That's my thoughts on the matter, I think it was a team effort, while Skelton apologists such as yourself counter any Skelton criticism with:

7-2!

DURRRR!

That's how I see it; Skelton apologists give him way too much credit. He is the love child of Jake Plummer and Kent Graham. He has the Durrr! look of Jake Plummer with his flair for late game theatrics but also the terrible play the first 3 quarters of the game. And he has the great size and horrific accuracy of Kent Graham (who also had late game moments).

So answer your roll call for dunce badges, but you may want to get in the long line of the "I told you so" that I will be feeding you when John Skelton is a journeyman QB 5 years from now.

Would Kolb have gone 7-2? Perhaps he would have, but I don't have a terrible amount of faith that he would have. I could be wrong, however. He was better (not much, but better) early in games, and certainly not as good in the 4th quarter. So yeah, that's up in the air.

So, I always just argue that Skelton went 7-2? That's the only argument I ever use to support his play? That's a lie, and what's more, a lie you already knew. I argue tooth and nail about not just his clutch play at the end of games, ability to utilize the pocket, and his shiftiness, but also his lack of developmental time. And I have never tried to say he'll be 'the man' 5 years from now. My argument has always been, and for the moment is, that he hasn't had the chance to develop adequately before now. That doesn't mean he'll pan out, but it does mean, IMO, we shouldn't just shut the book on him.

Oh, by the way, thank you for adroitly avoiding the issue at hand, while yet reinforcing my point. Since you refused to answer and say, without reservation, that Skelton had nothing to do with the 7-2 record...since you simply changed the subject to 'what would Kolb have done?'...you clearly are NOT willing to admit that Skelton had nothing to do with 7-2. So, even though you don't want to admit it, you're not a moron, because you know that he did, indeed, contribute to those wins.

 

[Stout]

Seriously? Now you have to go "personal attack" on me and the rest of the board because I merely pointed out numerous deficiencies to the "Skelton wins ball games" argument.

Sorry, I don't stoop down to that level.

No, that is absolutely not what you did. You once again, as you and the Skelton haters always do, brushed aside any hint or idea that Skelton had anything to do with those wins. I called you to the mat for it. Clearly, you don't wish to deny Skelton contributed to those wins either, which means you are not one of said idiots.

In fact, I don't think you guys are idiots or morons or anything of the sort, which is why I worded it carefully to avoid direct personal attacks. You're simply stubborn and refuse to give Skelton any due. I did not revert to a simple 'Skelton wins ball games' argument, as I've never simply argued that. I always point out the other things that...well, I just listed them in the above post--I'm not doing it again.

So, now that that's out of the way, and no one wishes to step up and make a staggeringly silly statement about Skelton, can one of you guys step up and do the right thing--can you finally admit that Skelton certainly contributed something to those victories? I'm not asking for heaping of praise, or anything like that. I'm just curious if anyone has the cajones to simply admit that he did contribute. Is't possible?

 

[Krangodnzr]

Oh, by the way, thank you for adroitly avoiding the issue at hand, while yet reinforcing my point. Since you refused to answer and say, without reservation, that Skelton had nothing to do with the 7-2 record...since you simply changed the subject to 'what would Kolb have done?'...you clearly are NOT willing to admit that Skelton had nothing to do with 7-2. So, even though you don't want to admit it, you're not a moron, because you know that he did, indeed, contribute to those wins.

Skelton was awful. He had as much to do with getting us BEHIND to require his come backs. I can't give him credit for diddly squat. He was top three worst QBs in the NFL last year. His contributions didn't make up for his mistakes and his stats clearly portray that.

Moron? LOL Whatever dude. You're the one pimping a good awful QB who has shown very few signs of ever being even a good NFL.

BTW Search: Stout

See how often you've mentioned it and come back to me. I seem to recall you, Rugby, and Duckjake using that as your go to come back for any criticism of Holy Skelton.

 

[kerouac9]

Skelton was awful. He had as much to do with getting us BEHIND to require his come backs. I can't give him credit for diddly squat. He was top three worst QBs in the NFL last year. His contributions didn't make up for his mistakes and his stats clearly portray that.

Moron? LOL Whatever dude. You're the one pimping a good awful QB who has shown very few signs of ever being even a good NFL.

BTW Search: Stout

See how often you've mentioned it and come back to me. I seem to recall you, Rugby, and Duckjake using that as your go to come back for any criticism of Holy Skelton.

So... is it because Kolb was so good that we put up 6 points in three quarters against Dallas?

Did Kolb bear no responsibility for the 28-0 first quarter deficit that we ran up in Minnesota?

What about Kolb not being able to get a first down in the fourth quarter at home against the Giants to ice the game? Or actually leading the team to a comeback win when he got the ball with 2:39 left at home? Was Kolb able to do that?

Who could forget this classic Kolb fourth quarter series against his old NFC East nemeses, the Washington Redskins:

Arizona Cardinals at 05:17
4-G.Gano kicks 65 yards from WAS 35 to end zone, Touchback.
1-10-ARI 20 (5:17) 26-C.Wells right guard to ARI 23 for 3 yards (52-R.McIntosh).
2-7-ARI 23 (4:35) (Shotgun) 4-K.Kolb pass incomplete short right to 85-E.Doucet. Penalty on ARI-85-E.Doucet, Illegal Motion, declined.
3-7-ARI 23 (4:32) (Shotgun) 4-K.Kolb pass incomplete short right to 85-E.Doucet (91-R.Kerrigan).
4-7-ARI 23 (4:28) 9-D.Zastudil punts 41 yards to WAS 36, Center-82-M.Leach, out of bounds. WAS-24-D.Gomes was injured during the play.

Classic #4.

And I'll never forget the time that Kevin Kolb couldn't get the team into scoring position after the halfway point in the second quarter in Seattle in Week 3. Vintage work.

I think you'd be hard pressed to find Skelton "apologists" who think that John Skelton would be a Top 5 or Top 10 or even Top 15 QB by any statistical measure. But it seems like Kolb's supporters still think that he's going to amount to something.

Crap versus poop, indeed. I'd just rather feel good going into the last five minutes of a 14-17 game that we might win it. I don't feel that way when Kevin Kolb is under center. I don't know how anyone here can say with confidence that they'd feel better with #4 in that situation.

 

[TJ]

No, that is absolutely not what you did. You once again, as you and the Skelton haters always do, brushed aside any hint or idea that Skelton had anything to do with those wins. I called you to the mat for it. Clearly, you don't wish to deny Skelton contributed to those wins either, which means you are not one of said idiots.

In fact, I don't think you guys are idiots or morons or anything of the sort, which is why I worded it carefully to avoid direct personal attacks. You're simply stubborn and refuse to give Skelton any due. I did not revert to a simple 'Skelton wins ball games' argument, as I've never simply argued that. I always point out the other things that...well, I just listed them in the above post--I'm not doing it again.

So, now that that's out of the way, and no one wishes to step up and make a staggeringly silly statement about Skelton, can one of you guys step up and do the right thing--can you finally admit that Skelton certainly contributed something to those victories? I'm not asking for heaping of praise, or anything like that. I'm just curious if anyone has the cajones to simply admit that he did contribute. Is't possible?

What exactly are you looking for? A complete conversion on the Skelton argument, or for me to give him the slightest consideration for winning ball games? Seriously, the "come to the mat," calling people "morons," and trying to put dunce caps on people is malarkey.

Here's the scoop: I look at Skelton and I see the negative TD:INT ratio, 1.5 less PPGs scored on offense, mid 60s QB rating, and three quarters of QB play only Tim Tebow would be proud to witness. Speaking of Tebow, if we're just going off of wins and losses as the main barometer of QB success, why didn't we just trade for him after Peyton signed with Denver? Same reason I don't want Skelton starting this season: both he and Tebow have major mechanical deficiencies in their game that are probably irreparable and both play 50 minutes of garbage football. Sorry, but this kind of play is not sustainable long-term, especially since we'll be in some shootouts next season.

Then I turn the page and notice the significant improvements on defense. Among the league leaders in fewest PPG allowed in the NFL to end the season. If you haven't already, I suggest you listen to the Cardinals Underground podcast from yesterday. The guys pointed out the reason we lost so many early games was because the defense was so confused, players on that side of the ball were out of position, calling out coaches, and getting into each other's face. The defense was self-destructing. All of a sudden, during the St Louis game, the group started getting stops at critical times and eventually became the league leaders in 3rd down defense (less than 40% conversion allowed).

I refuse to even consider entertaining the simplistic argument that Skelton is the main reason the Cards went 7-2 and therefore is the far superior QB. You indicated that there's more to it, but truth be told, there isn't. What else is there? Pocket presence? Well, if he can't throw an accurate ball with plenty of time and his feet set, then there is little hope for a drastic improvement.

Think about this: what if Kolb is healthy all 16 games? What if Skelton never recovered from the ankle injury he sustained in preseason and Bartel took over? IMO, we end the season at 8-8 any which way, give or take a couple of points scored in each game.

However, if the defense never finds its groove and continues to give up 25+ ppg like it did the first half of the season, there's a good chance Andrew Luck or RGIII is our starter this season. This is indisputable.

And while Skelton's appearance happened at the exact same time the defense played more efficiently, he was not the savior for the team.

 

[desertdawg]

My favorite 4 most popular words echoed often in ASFN...but all strung together make....

Polethora of porous QB apalogists.

 

[desertdawg]

My favorite 4 most popular words echoed often in ASFN...but all strung together make....

Polethora of porous QB apalogists.

I put them in different colors so folks would try and click on them.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation

 

[Chopper0080]

Well Skelton is younger, stronger, tougher and a winner.

I love the he is a "winner" arguement. A quick update, Vince Young was a "winner" and look where that landed him. The "winner" label only works if it is combined with "consistency." If you look at the true "winner" QBs in the NFL, they are consistent is every aspect of their games, day in and day out. Brady, Rodgers, both Mannings, and Brees. Guys, Skelton is not. Now, this is not to say Skelton does not have the ability to develop into a consistent QB, but facts are he is in his 3rd year and struggles being consistent in 7on7 and 11on11 drills. This is a huge concern for me.

 

[Duckjake]

Skelton was awful. He had as much to do with getting us BEHIND to require his come backs. I can't give him credit for diddly squat. He was top three worst QBs in the NFL last year. His contributions didn't make up for his mistakes and his stats clearly portray that.

Moron? LOL Whatever dude. You're the one pimping a good awful QB who has shown very few signs of ever being even a good N
FL.

BTW Search: Stout

See how often you've mentioned it and come back to me. I seem to recall you, Rugby, and Duckjake using that as your go to come back for any criticism of Holy Skelton.

What a load of cow excrement. I have listed several different things to refute the notion that Skelton had little or nothing to do with the Cards wins the second half of the season.

The number of 70+ yard drives to win or tie.
His high completion rate during those drives
That PP only had 1 punt return for a TD the last half of the season.
That the defense scored no points.
That the D seldom gave the O short fields.

I've also pointed out Skeltons outstanding
game vs SF 2 as evidence that John does have the skills to be a solid NFL QB. That Kolbs comp % was only 2.8 points higher than Deuce's.

In addition to what Stout says about Skelton having far less experience than Kolb.

 

[blindseyed]

Wow this thread took a pretty big turn

 

[Phrazbit]

Yes, poor poor Kolb. A solid QB who was foiled by bad defenses. Curse the D for not being able to keep Seattle under 10 points. Damn them for not spotting Kolb a lead larger than 24 points against Baltimore. And they sure screwed him over against the Redskins when Kolb was able to hold the ball for an entire 53 seconds during the 4th quarter. And what a shafting they did to Kolb against Minnesota when they couldnt stop those 15 yard drives. And against New York when the offense made sure our defense stayed alert... but never getting a 1st in the 4th, but that stupid D blew it again.

 

[Duckjake]

Yes, poor poor Kolb. A solid QB who was foiled by bad defenses. Curse the D for not being able to keep Seattle under 10 points. Damn them for not spotting Kolb a lead larger than 24 points against Baltimore. And they sure screwed him over against the Redskins when Kolb was able to hold the ball for an entire 53 seconds during the 4th quarter. And what a shafting they did to Kolb against Minnesota when they couldnt stop those 15 yard drives. And against New York when the offense made sure our defense stayed alert... but never getting a 1st in the 4th, but that stupid D blew it again.

Another myth is that Skelton only played well in the 4th quarter and inferring that it was somehow Plummeresque 4th quarter rallies after 3 quarters of ineptitude that won.

SF got up 19-7 early in the 3rd but that lead was reduced to 19-14 on the very next series as Skelton and the Cards went 80 yards for a TD.

Cleveland got up 10-0 but we all remember being amazed at how Cleveland was running through our D like warm butter. And of course there was the 76 yard TD pass to Greg Little. Skelton engineered a 65 yard TD starting with 1:49 left in the first half. You could say it was Skelton and the offense who bailed out the Defense in that one.

Skelton throws a pick 6 vs Eagles in the 2nd Q but takes the Cards 84 yards for the tying TD on the next series. The Eagles took the lead again after a 70 yard drive. Skelton tied it with an 89 yard drive early in the 4th.

The Rams and Seahawks were never ahead in the 2nd game vs each team. But Skelton took the team 70 yards for a FG in the first Q and 80 yards for a FG to start the 3rd vs the Rams. The Hawks were never ahead because Skelton and the offense went 81 yards for a TD on their second possession of the First Quarter.

I now have NFL Game Rewind with the coaches film.

The main thing I've seen so far is that Skelton is a superior QB to Kolb in almost every aspect of the game except one. And that's a HUGE 1. Accuracy. It won't matter if he's a better athlete, stronger and harder to sack, has better pocket presence, and a stronger arm. If he can't stop throwing the ball high and/or wide he'll never be the QB we need to win.

The other thing is that the Cards oline was really poor at picking up blitzes. They were caught with an unblocked defender numerous times.

 

[kerouac9]

Good stuff, but I was interested in this:

The other thing is that the Cards oline was really poor at picking up blitzes. They were caught with an unblocked defender numerous times.

Do you find that they're failing to block five blitzers with 5 blockers, or is there a 6th man that's not getting accounted for?

There's no excuse for five offensive linemen to fail to accomodate 4 rushers, and little for them not to be able to block 5 (although zone blitzes make this challenging). But if the defense blitzes more than 5 players, there's no way to account for that, and the quarterback is responsible for identifying the open man.

 

[Stout]

Skelton was awful. He had as much to do with getting us BEHIND to require his come backs. I can't give him credit for diddly squat. He was top three worst QBs in the NFL last year. His contributions didn't make up for his mistakes and his stats clearly portray that.

Moron? LOL Whatever dude. You're the one pimping a good awful QB who has shown very few signs of ever being even a good NFL.

BTW Search: Stout

See how often you've mentioned it and come back to me. I seem to recall you, Rugby, and Duckjake using that as your go to come back for any criticism of Holy Skelton.

Yeah, you're just completely off the deep end, dude. To insist that Skelton contributed nothing at all in those wins is to simply ignore reality. Welcome to la la land.

What exactly are you looking for? A complete conversion on the Skelton argument, or for me to give him the slightest consideration for winning ball games? Seriously, the "come to the mat," calling people "morons," and trying to put dunce caps on people is malarkey.

Here's the scoop: I look at Skelton and I see the negative TD:INT ratio, 1.5 less PPGs scored on offense, mid 60s QB rating, and three quarters of QB play only Tim Tebow would be proud to witness. Speaking of Tebow, if we're just going off of wins and losses as the main barometer of QB success, why didn't we just trade for him after Peyton signed with Denver? Same reason I don't want Skelton starting this season: both he and Tebow have major mechanical deficiencies in their game that are probably irreparable and both play 50 minutes of garbage football. Sorry, but this kind of play is not sustainable long-term, especially since we'll be in some shootouts next season.

Then I turn the page and notice the significant improvements on defense. Among the league leaders in fewest PPG allowed in the NFL to end the season. If you haven't already, I suggest you listen to the Cardinals Underground podcast from yesterday. The guys pointed out the reason we lost so many early games was because the defense was so confused, players on that side of the ball were out of position, calling out coaches, and getting into each other's face. The defense was self-destructing. All of a sudden, during the St Louis game, the group started getting stops at critical times and eventually became the league leaders in 3rd down defense (less than 40% conversion allowed).

I refuse to even consider entertaining the simplistic argument that Skelton is the main reason the Cards went 7-2 and therefore is the far superior QB. You indicated that there's more to it, but truth be told, there isn't. What else is there? Pocket presence? Well, if he can't throw an accurate ball with plenty of time and his feet set, then there is little hope for a drastic improvement.

Think about this: what if Kolb is healthy all 16 games? What if Skelton never recovered from the ankle injury he sustained in preseason and Bartel took over? IMO, we end the season at 8-8 any which way, give or take a couple of points scored in each game.

However, if the defense never finds its groove and continues to give up 25+ ppg like it did the first half of the season, there's a good chance Andrew Luck or RGIII is our starter this season. This is indisputable.

And while Skelton's appearance happened at the exact same time the defense played more efficiently, he was not the savior for the team.

Yes to the bolded. You and other Skelton haters seem to have a reading comprehension problem, because you minimize what we say to one silly argument--and we don't just parrot '7-2'. Sure, we use the record to help support Skelton, but we never, ever, ever say he was anywhere near the sole contributor. On the other hand, Skelton haters never, ever want to give him one scrap of credit for them, and that is just plain dumb. It ignores the reality of the situation. You can't admit that he played any part at all in winning those games? Might as well have started me at QB, then, because we'd have just gone 7-2 anyway.

Oh, and a tip of the hat to Duckjake for pointing out the glaringly obvious, that Skelton did indeed 'contribute' to winning games. Contribute, NOT do it on his own, m'kay? I did NOT simply use a '7-2' argument, fellas. So don't try to twist it....again.

Sorry for being pissy about it, but sheesh, when you hate a player so much you take every bit of credit away from him, well, it gets me riled.

 

[Darkside]

This thread would be hilarious if it didn't upset me so much. We don't have a single good quarterback. We have 2 bad quarterbacks and 1 will suck less than the other. I don't know if it's Kolb or Skelton but they're winning the job because the other one sucks less than they do. That's just a fact.

We've had what now, 4 practices? And every single practice is punctuated with: Skelton can't throw accurately; Kolb looked good but threw 2 picks. Totally disgusting.

I think we've become so accustomed to the suckage since DA that we don't even recognize putrid QB play when we see it. Throwing multiple picks in practice? That isn't a good practice dudes. I've heard time and again people say so-and-so had a good practice except for the two picks he threw. Not a good practice!! Skelton had a good practice because he ran for a TD, even though he couldn't hit wide open receivers? Kolb had a good practice because he completed 60% of his passes, but oh yeah, he threw 2 picks in the red zone. That's disgusting QB play from both guys. Totally disgusting.

It's a complete joke to me that Skelton's scamper for a TD is somehow news, when only he and Mcnuts knew about it. That's not a path to success, not when you're overthrowing guys into the stands and putting balls behind dudes. Conversely, saying Kolb had an outstanding practice because he was in rhythm and made all these passes means jack-diddly-nothing if he's going to throw two freaking picks in the end zone.

People say oh but our defense is stellar. This D isn't even coming after our boys, they want us to be good too. Wait until guys want to hurt us, and hurt Kolb, and hurt Skelton, and hurt Fitz.

Both these guys suck ass. Big fat ass. We're arguing over who sucks least, which is incredible in itself, that's how low we've gotten, that's how far the desperation has become.

Do any of you think Manning would throw 2 picks in the red zone against this D or scamper for a meaningless TD in practice? Negative. Anyone think Jay Cutler would? How about Big Ben, even though he has an injured Rotator. Don't think so. Haven't heard that. Even crappy QB's, the worst QB's I can imagine playing, throwing to the likes of Chad Johnson in Miami and such don't do that.

Ya'll keep saying wait a while, give them more practice, give them more games, but negative. That was the excuse last year. It was my last excuse. They've had 4 practices to differentiate themselves from each other and all they've shown is they both suck really bad. Preseason won't fix that, nor will more practices.

We're arguing over a poop sandwich or having one with some mustard. It's all the same. It's a big pile of crap.

 

[Garthshort]

In all fairness, I don't think FOUR practices are enough to come to any sort of valid conclusion. Were you being sarcastic and I missed it? If so, sorry.

 

[Darkside]

In all fairness, I don't think FOUR practices are enough to come to any sort of valid conclusion. Were you being sarcastic and I missed it? If so, sorry.

No I totally wasn't being sarcastic. 4 practices may not be enough to prove you're any sort of badass, but considering how bad our QB's suck it's enough to differentiate yourself from the suckage next to you. The fact that neither can do that disheartens me. I've seen a lot of camps, tons of them, and when one is horrible the other usually, almost every time, separates himself from the other. We don't have that.

I'm not normally so trigger-happy so-to-speak about camp, but in this case I think it's a bad sign. I really truly do. I think both QB's are just bad. I tend to give Skelton more leeway, even though I'd like Kolb to do well, but I give him more leeway because of his inexperience. There's no excuse for Kolb. The fact that he's even competing with this dude from Fordham who is that inaccurate is a joke.

I think they both suck. I'm not saying the suck is all-time, but I definitely think they suck this year (as well as last year). I don't think we've found a QB, and I don't think either of them has made any kind of significant progress from what we've seen. If they had, it would have shown itself.

(Edit: Should add, it's not just 4 practices with Kolb, the dude has been in the league for years. Years man. New scheme yes, new coach yes, but he's been in the league for years and what I hate is he makes bad decisions. Runs when he shouldn't, doesn't check down when he can, makes stupid throws and picks. None of that has been fixed so far in practice, it's all the same. Show me even one area of improvement (besides the fact that he hasn't suffered a concussion yet). One area? Skelton can slide somewhat, in my mind, because he's so young and raw. IMO he's improved every year. But we're still comparing two bad quarterbacks. I don't see any improvement so far and there should have been some after, yes, even 4 practices, because they're trying their hardest to win the job and be the man, that's the best they're going to do. At least Skelton I can give some nod to because I think he's a better game-day QB than practice QB. I think he does better when he doesn't think about it all, like in practice, trying to figure everything out. He does better under pressure and just reacting on talent. Kolb has no excuse at all. I should add that I think and thought and have always said Kolb gives us the best chance to win. That's how bad I think our QB situation is).