At todays practice..

[Cbus cardsfan]

Was Kolb not a promising QB prospect? I seem to remember some fairly outspoken members of the board pointing me to his highlight reel from Philly and explaining to me that he was going to be a "superstar" and that when he plays at a Pro Bowl level for the Cards, his $62 million contract would be a "bargain."

Want to know who thought that Derek Anderson, Max Hall, Kevin Kolb, and John Skelton were starting NFL QBs? Ken Whisenhunt.

It's still too early to assess Kolb. You gave Alex Smith 12 years to have a decent season, why not Kolb? This year will tell it all. As for the other guys, those were more a reaction to Warner retiring when they didn't plan on that occuring. Now, that was bad planning on their part but Whiz had to stick somebody back there and those were the guys readily available. Whiz needs to draft a QBOF but the problem is the rest of the team is ready to win now and not wait on a rookie to develop.

 

[BigRedRage]

Was Kolb not a promising QB prospect? I seem to remember some fairly outspoken members of the board pointing me to his highlight reel from Philly and explaining to me that he was going to be a "superstar" and that when he plays at a Pro Bowl level for the Cards, his $62 million contract would be a "bargain."

Want to know who thought that Derek Anderson, Max Hall, Kevin Kolb, and John Skelton were starting NFL QBs? Ken Whisenhunt.

I saw very few people pimping kolb. very few.

The options were kolb and orton. I would have taken orton but they went kolb and orton ended up a backup anyway. Probably wouldnt have worked either way but it was better than retaining max hall another year.

 

[kerouac9]

It's still too early to assess Kolb. You gave Alex Smith 12 years to have a decent season, why not Kolb? This year will tell it all. As for the other guys, those were more a reaction to Warner retiring when they didn't plan on that occuring. Now, that was bad planning on their part but Whiz had to stick somebody back there and those were the guys readily available. Whiz needs to draft a QBOF but the problem is the rest of the team is ready to win now and not wait on a rookie to develop.

Because Alex Smith isn't playing on a six-year, $62 million contract with $21 million guaranteed. Alex Smith has had established league-average or better performance when given extended playing time since he worked with Norv Turner.

Sorry, but Kolb is a five-year NFL veteran. He doesn't get the excuse of lacking PT. He's had SIX NFL training camps where he was either the outright starter or the #2. He's had plenty of reps to hone his game.

 

[Phrazbit]

Was Kolb not a promising QB prospect? I seem to remember some fairly outspoken members of the board pointing me to his highlight reel from Philly and explaining to me that he was going to be a "superstar" and that when he plays at a Pro Bowl level for the Cards, his $62 million contract would be a "bargain."

Want to know who thought that Derek Anderson, Max Hall, Kevin Kolb, and John Skelton were starting NFL QBs? Ken Whisenhunt.

Those are 2 seperate arguments. Is Whis awful at scouting and selectingQB's? Probably. But if the guys he is bringing in are dog crap then its different than him getting quality guys and wasting their talent. I think if a good QB fell in his lap, like Warner did, then they would do well.

 

[Pariah]

I saw very few people pimping kolb. very few.

That's ridiculous. As soon as he was signed it was like he was the second coming. Last pre-season I had the gall to suggest he didn't look accurate and I was lambasted by the masses.

 

[Shane]

That's ridiculous. As soon as he was signed it was like he was the second coming. Last pre-season I had the gall to suggest he didn't look accurate and I was lambasted by the masses.

Exaggerating??? I remember one long pass play to Fitz in pre season that many thought was a good throw. You were pretty opinionated that it was all Fitz and Kolb basically got lucky. You were lambasted for that opinion I remember that. But I don't remember any across the board comments from you saying he was inaccurate or anyone arguing unless I missed it? Hell he only completed 55% in pre season. Pretty dumb argument.

 

[SeattleCard]

Great. Skelton sucks What are we going to do when Kolb gets knocked out In game 5?

One word for you: Bartel baby! I admit I am not a big Skelton fan. Bartel is more accurate.

 

[Pariah]

Exaggerating???

Nope. I learned pretty quickly not to speak out against the all might Kolb.

 

[Chaz]

One word for you: Bartel baby! I admit I am not a big Skelton fan. Bartel is more accurate.

This.

 

[Mainstreet]

Sorry, but Kolb is a five-year NFL veteran. He doesn't get the excuse of lacking PT. He's had SIX NFL training camps where he was either the outright starter or the #2. He's had plenty of reps to hone his game.

This is why I'm going with Skelton even though many say he has had a terrible training camp. He's still young and inexperienced but he knows how to win. Some players are practice players and some players are game players. IMO, when the time comes, Skelton is a game player. I think the regular season will tell the tale.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Because Alex Smith isn't playing on a six-year, $62 million contract with $21 million guaranteed. Alex Smith has had established league-average or better performance when given extended playing time since he worked with Norv Turner.

Sorry, but Kolb is a five-year NFL veteran. He doesn't get the excuse of lacking PT. He's had SIX NFL training camps where he was either the outright starter or the #2. He's had plenty of reps to hone his game.

Kolb did not have 'plenty of reps' in Whiz's system going into last season. He had a new playbook to memorize and put into practice without the benefit of a full training camp. It takes a bit of time to get an older, very different method of doing things out of one's system, including the muscle memory. There won't be any acceptable excuses following this season, but thre are reasons for his past season difficulty and some of us can hope for his success.

 

[Shane]

Nope. I learned pretty quickly not to speak out against the all might Kolb.

Yet another exaggeration.

 

[Passepartout]

For now, Kolb is the #1 QB and hope he has a better 2012 than a 2011. Just a new system that's all.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Was Kolb not a promising QB prospect? I seem to remember some fairly outspoken members of the board pointing me to his highlight reel from Philly and explaining to me that he was going to be a "superstar" and that when he plays at a Pro Bowl level for the Cards, his $62 million contract would be a "bargain."

Want to know who thought that Derek Anderson, Max Hall, Kevin Kolb, and John Skelton were starting NFL QBs? Ken Whisenhunt.

Even by your sliding scale of judgement the only real grade to give Kolb after one season is INC. He still only started 9 games. And really only 8. You keep referencing his 6 Training Camps but leave out the real important fact: He only had 3/4 of an abbreviated of one in a new offense. That would be a monumental task for most and not preclude future success. it was night and day. How many more people have to compare the immense difference between the West Coast offense and it's quick passing, and Whisenhunts offense which is predicated in holding the ball longer and letting routes develop down field to see that maybe a reason someone struggles.

So unlike Judge Dread over here I'm still reserving final judgement till he gets more of a chance. And looks like hell get it based on Skeletons failures so far.

Again I'm worried more about his ability to stay healthy then play well. admittedly I will tell you that can't be predicted. Or worse can be predicted he inevitably will.

So your first paragraph has no validity IMO.

as for the second paragraph you basically restated what I said in a different way. Wiz has had difficulty overestimating his ability to coach up lesser talent. You don't think he was knocking down doors to obtain and retain Anderson, Skeleton, Leinart, and Max Hall now was he? Those were low expectation guys (other then Leinart whom he didn't choose) who met those same low expectations. he couldn't coach them up plain and simple.
Congratulations.

 

[Cheesebeef]

As much as I hate Peyton Manning for not coming here because it would have made us contenders, I might hate him more because we still have this "crap v. poop" debate and dividing our fan base every day.

 

[Mainstreet]

If Skelton played terrible the past two seasons and he did not win, he would not be getting the excuses Kolb gets. He would be discarded like dishwater. However, the excuses still rain down for Kolb.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

If Skelton played terrible the past two seasons and he did not win, he would not be getting the excuses Kolb gets. He would be discarded like dishwater. However, the excuses still rain down for Kolb.

2 Seasons?

I don't believe there will be any excuses for Kolb this year if he is bad again.

 

[kerouac9]

Kolb did not have 'plenty of reps' in Whiz's system going into last season. He had a new playbook to memorize and put into practice without the benefit of a full training camp. It takes a bit of time to get an older, very different method of doing things out of one's system, including the muscle memory. There won't be any acceptable excuses following this season, but thre are excuses for his past season difficulty and some of us can hope for his success.

Cam Newton didn't seem to have a hard time doing it. I'm sure that it's easier to understand your second NFL playbook than your first.

But, you know, don't let a career of sub-mediocrity be the enemy of hope that the guy who developed nobody can develop the guy Andy Reid handpicked and gave up on.

 

[Mainstreet]

2 Seasons?

I don't believe there will be any excuses for Kolb this year if he is bad again.

I was speaking of Skelton's play the past two season which was acceptable considering his background... coming out of a small school and being forced to play the past two seasons.

Kolb has something to prove big time.

 

[Gaddabout]

Did anyone get video of Eddie Elder's hit on Anthony Sherman? Knocked his helmet off? That sounds like a really fun collision.

 

[TJ]

If Skelton played terrible the past two seasons and he did not win, he would not be getting the excuses Kolb gets. He would be discarded like dishwater. However, the excuses still rain down for Kolb.

Skelton's overall play can be rated as poor to mediocre, and his wins are largely attributed to breaks provided by the defense and special teams.

He stays on the team, regardless of the W/L record, because of his own built-in excuse that he's from a small school and needs time to polish his skill set.

Don't buy that Kolb is the only QB with apologists.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Don't buy that Kolb is the only QB with apologists.

+1

Skelton can do no wrong because he "wins", but by every other metric that would predict success (TD:INT ratio, QB Rating) John Skelton is literally a bottom three QB.

We've seen two years of how bad Skelton is, I doubt he gets much better. The only reason I want Kolb is because at least he can say he didn't even have much time to learn the offense.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Cam Newton didn't seem to have a hard time doing it. I'm sure that it's easier to understand your second NFL playbook than your first.

But, you know, don't let a career of sub-mediocrity be the enemy of hope that the guy who developed nobody can develop the guy Andy Reid handpicked and gave up on.

<SIGH> Kerouac we've sung this song, and danced this dance.

Cam Newton had his playbook and was practicing with lots of Carolina Panthers from the moment he was drafted on. He had literally MONTHS more time to prepare than Kevin Kolb. Plus the offense Carolina runs is ****hair above a college offense. Whisenhunt's offense is tough by almost all admissions.

Kolb hasn't played well, he's been skittish and has made poor decisions. You don't have to construct bull crap arguments that aren't true when you can stand behind his poor play.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

 

[TJ]

We've seen two years of how bad Skelton is, I doubt he gets much better. The only reason I want Kolb is because at least he can say he didn't even have much time to learn the offense.

I'd buy that Skelton could get better if he wasn't so wildly inaccurate. It's not that he's inaccurate because he's placing balls inches away from a receiver's catching radius, it's because he is airmailing and telegraphing his throws. All while having his feet set. There are mechanical flaws in his passing abilities. I'm not so sure he can overcome them.

The last QB we saw with this habit was Derek Anderson, and his completion % progressively got worse as his career moved on.

<SIGH> Kerouac we've sung this song, and danced this dance.

Cam Newton had his playbook and was practicing with lots of Carolina Panthers from the moment he was drafted on. He had literally MONTHS more time to prepare than Kevin Kolb. Plus the offense Carolina runs is ****hair above a college offense. Whisenhunt's offense is tough by almost all admissions.

Kolb hasn't played well, he's been skittish and has made poor decisions. You don't have to construct bull crap arguments that aren't true when you can stand behind his poor play.

I might add that Kolb was also practicing with the Eagles up until July; therefore, being fully entrenched in the WCO. Going from that offense to the Whisenhunt offense is like an undergraduate student switching majors from Marketing to Engineering after their fourth semester in college.

Countless QBs-turned-NFL analysts, namely Rich Gannon and Kurt Warner, have all indicated that the primary reason Kolb did not produce in 2011 was because of the learning curve of the Whisenhunt offense and (obviously) injuries. They added that he still has the physical tools to succeed in the NFL.