Ayton in kokokovs offense

[NashDishesDimes]

After watching first two preseason games, i noticed how well kokokov (butchered) uses Ayton.

I know Book is out but Ayton is the focal point every half court posession. The first option like all dominant big men is to try and beat your man down the floor to get position, he does a great job if this as his body is so strong.

If he doesnt get there, they bring him out to the elbow/free throw line. I think this is the unsespecting area of his game that may not show up in the box score, but will translate to wins.

That area, allows him not to clog up the lane in a midern offense. From that position he has an incredibly quick face up and pretty jumper i never suspected. He can also touch pass to wings whose defenders are sagging to try and double him. If that doesnt work, perhaps where he is really dominant is setting a hard screen for a wing, and rolling to the cup for either an oop or following the shot. Book and Ariza are very inteligent bball players and will find him on that roll.

On top of it he looks to be very comfortable in that spot, kudos to kukokov. The game already looks slow to him. He doesnt turn it over, and makes the right pass. His understanding of the game is lightyears ahead of Dragan and Josh Jackson at this point.

What will make him special is there is nobody in the league with his combination of size, touch, strength, quick feet, athleticism, and back to basket ability. Closest thing is probably Embiid. He will absolutely dominate any wirey modern nba PF or center. Cant wait to see it.

Great pick, great usage by kokokov.

 

[Phrazbit]

It seems like the only real defense against him when he gets the ball near the hoop is to deliberately foul him or flail at the ball and hop to knock it loose without getting called for a foul.

He's a rookie so he's probably going to get less calls than he should, but within a year or 2 he will probably be getting the star treatment and getting a LOT of free throws every game.

He's a monster. He's going to get stronger too, there is no helping it. Look at Shaq, Robinson, even more recently Embiid when they were 20 compared to a few years later. He is likely to get more broad shouldered and bigger all over. He's going to be the most physically imposing big since Shaq. I'd be surprised if he isn't averaging a hyper efficient 24-12 by his second or 3rd season.

He and Booker are going to be one of the deadliest pick and role duos in the league and I think that will probably be taking place within a couple months of the season.

 

[JCSunsfan]

We need to sign KD next summer. He is the perfect complement to Booker and Ayton.

 

[Hoop Head]

I'm not sure if its Ayton himself or if it is how Kokoskov is using him but he has looked like much more than a rookie. He's bigger than I thought he was, a legit 7+ foot big who moves like a wing with the strength of a 7 footer. I saw a couple of picks he set where the opposing player ran into him, bounced off a bit disoriented, and Ayton didn't budge. He then moved to where he needed to be. He's much stronger than I thought and seems to handle his size very well. His midrange jumper looks like money also, which helps round things out because he can't be stopped in the paint but he also can't be left alone within 18-20 feet because he can and will drain a jumper if he doesn't take it inside.

He reminded me of a stronger and smarter Amare. I loved Amare as a Sun but Ayton looks like how I wished Stat played as our Center. Stat had a jumper he didn't use as much as he should have because he could beat opponents with his speed or draw a foul. Ayton doesn't need to rely on getting the call because he's a bit stronger and can bail himself out without needing the refs to give him a call because he can finish if he doesn't get the whistle. His jumper will help keep him from needing to the rim over and over also, which will help make him unguardable. His strength makes up for what he lacks in speed compared to Amare. The only way to stop him is bear hugging him, which will be called. Where Amare & other. worldly athleticism and speed, Ayton uses his strength and smarts. There is no way he won't be an impact player in the league. He will be part of the Center positions comeback rather than being a player from an era gone by. His jumper is exactly why he won't be limited to being a center of yesterday.

I don't know who to compare his game to, it's a unique mix of size, strength, speed, and smarts. I kind of see like Tim Duncan doing his best impression of Amare. Not quite as quick and explosive as Amare but he makes up for that in strength and skill.

I pray he takes care of his body and the trainers, Ayton himself, and the coach are all on the same page to make sure he doesn't exert himself too much and he doesn't get over used. I don't see him getting beat up by any opponents in the league. Very few players will be able to match up with him physically and I doubt many could pound on him even if they tried. I think there are only a handful of players who might be able to actually make him work really hard all game on both sides of the ball. Embiid and Cousins are the only two I think might provide him a challenge offensively and defensively. He should be better than both in a short period of time with the right coaching and drive. His attitude and personal drive seem great, so the sky really is the limit for him. He can hit free throws also, which is huge. No hack a Shaq nonsense will slow him down either. I'm so excited to see what he becomes.

 

[Superbone]

I agree with nashdishedime (butchered). I'm very happy and impressed with Coach Kokoskov.

 

[Yuma]

I don't know who to compare his game to, it's a unique mix of size, strength, speed, and smarts. I kind of see like Tim Duncan doing his best impression of Amare. Not quite as quick and explosive as Amare but he makes up for that in strength and skill.

His jumper is like Olajawon in that is very soft. His hands are very good. There's been some bullet passes he has corralled that Len would never have been able to catch. I know you may not remember Wilt. He is strong but not quick, just like Wilt was. Like you said, he will only get stronger, too. Once Wilt got the ball down low, you just had to let him dunk or wrap him up. That elbow jumper is already a plus for him! He has been hitting that almost automatic in just two preseason games. If he can do that in the regular season, he will be a tremendous help to the offense. The key I think is to let him or ask him to take more of those so the other team gets desperate to stop him. Once the league sees he can hit that all day, rolls to the hoop, and open players will be open all day. He has to get to the point that teams have to double him to stop him. Then EVERYTHING will open up.

 

[SirStefan32]

I am impressed so far. I know these are not "real" games just yet, but the kid looks amazing.

 

[Yuma]

I think it's more of a coaching decision that we have not focused on feeding the ball to Ayton in spots. Igor wants the players to run the offense and score out of the system. Sometimes you have to just say, this next trip get the ball to Ayton and let him shoot! The fourth quarter stretch when we just could not buy a bucket, force the ball to Ayton and at least let him take an elbow jumper.

 

[JCSunsfan]

The jump shot is a thing of beauty.

 

[Carolinacacti]

What a difference since Summer League. Every other game the players around him know when and where to feed him. It will only get better.

 

[NashDishesDimes]

Yeah agree others, his hands are great. Not like alex len who if he catches it, then gets stripped or makes some uncoordinated move.

I actually liked Len, i think hes a starting center in this league, which is really not saying much given the level if centers today and quantity of true centers.

 

[elindholm]

I'm digging all of the Ayton praise, but to say he's better than Len is the ultimate backhanded compliment.

 

[95pro]

Ayton is so efficient. Embiid spins, fades, and just works too much compared to Ayton for 2PTA’s.

 

[TJ]

Remember that Ayton has only played basketball for 7 years of his life. He's still learning the intricacies of the game, and I suspect that thru the season, he'll have a few learning opportunities based on his relative lack of experience. It took him roughly 13 games in college to learn how to use his length to consistently contest shots on defense.

So far, Ayton looks like the dominant force he was at UofA. It's up to him to continue to grow and master his position.

 

[NashDishesDimes]

^^^good point, he hasnt played long. Other thing i notice is he reminds me of dwight howards build already but his legs are thicker. I think dwight was always limited by those tooth picks.

 

[Phrazbit]

What a difference since Summer League. Every other game the players around him know when and where to feed him. It will only get better.

The summer league is a travesty, putting it on TV probably makes it worse. Awful, selfish, stupid, sloppy, basketball. It's really hard for a big man to show much of anything when every ball handler out there is chucking up wild shots and charging into the lane like a Steve Keim leaving the bar at 3am.

 

[Phrazbit]

Yeah agree others, his hands are great. Not like alex len who if he catches it, then gets stripped or makes some uncoordinated move.

I actually liked Len, i think hes a starting center in this league, which is really not saying much given the level if centers today and quantity of true centers.

Len is a generation late. If it was the 90s Len would be a decent starter. Plodding bigs with bad hands, no range and an inability to switch on screens were all the rage back then. But the league has become more skilled... and Len is very not skilled.

If Atlanta gives him minutes I suspect he will put up individual stats that make people say "this guy is a decent player!", something like 12 points and 9 boards... meanwhile, his team's stats will suffer greatly on offense with every minute he plays and almost any time he is asked to make a defensive switch or even defend an actual legit big it will result in a basket or a foul... on Len.

The league thrives on versatility, and Len has none. He rebounds at a solid rate, and does nothing else at a level above **********.

 

[JCSunsfan]

We have to build a different type of Suns team. The Suns have never had a dominant center--a true big man who is one of the top two players on the team. Because of that we have built mobile fast teams with high octane offenses.

Ayton looks like he might quickly become our best player--even better than Booker. So the offense we need to build should be built around him. The model should be the San Antonio teams built around Tim Duncan. Ayton's skill set is similar--not exact, but close enough for that to be the model.

Right now, we have too many young, dumb, players to play like that.

 

[Hoop Head]

We have to build a different type of Suns team. The Suns have never had a dominant center--a true big man who is one of the top two players on the team. Because of that we have built mobile fast teams with high octane offenses.

Ayton looks like he might quickly become our best player--even better than Booker. So the offense we need to build should be built around him. The model should be the San Antonio teams built around Tim Duncan. Ayton's skill set is similar--not exact, but close enough for that to be the model.

Right now, we have too many young, dumb, players to play like that.

I think they should aim more for a Boston style with Garnett and Pierce. Ayton can play further out than Duncan and is much more mobile. I agree with everything else you said though.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I think they should aim more for a Boston style with Garnett and Pierce. Ayton can play further out than Duncan and is much more mobile. I agree with everything else you said though.

Yeah, I don't even think the Spurs would play that way today with a young Duncan. Tim would work on his 3 point shot and he'd be just as dominant as ever.

 

[Raindog]

I'm digging all of the Ayton praise, but to say he's better than Len is the ultimate backhanded compliment.

Absolutely... it's like saying cognac is better than mouthwash.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I'm digging all of the Ayton praise, but to say he's better than Len is the ultimate backhanded compliment.

Its in the context of this year at center vs. last year, I think.

 

[Yuma]

Absolutely... it's like saying cognac is better than mouthwash.

I know plenty of old school sailors that will tell you, if mouthwash is all you have, then that's what you roll with! LOL.

It's not that much of a backhand compliment. Just an observation. Ayton has corralled some bullet passes really well. As a team you always want to upgrade your positions. We drafted Len as our franchise center, and Ayton is a big upgrade over Len. Did we upgrade the center spot? Check.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Through three preseason games (and I know that preseason means nothing, but still, just for fun)

Among all NBA centers. Ayton

PPG--2nd
Rebounds--2nd
Blocks--1st

Among all rookies

PPG--1st, by 5.5 pts (over Miles Bridges)
Rebounds--1st by 3.7 boards (over Omari Spellman)
Blocks--1st by .5 blocks (over Doncic)
Minutes--1st (over Doncic by half a minute per game)

 

[JCSunsfan]

So much for knocking his defense. Here is the deal. In rebuilding a team, you need to gather three star players. We have two. Add one more player. We have free agency next summer to do it. After that, the bench players will find you.

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