Ayton or Doncic?

[CardsSunsDbacks]

file this in the "You never saw this coming" cabinet, but it's getting really hard not to love what Doncic is doing at this point...

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/luka-doncic-unleashes-two-wild-passes-magic-043041846.html

He's flashing Larry Legend stuff every game.

I'll file that in my "I told you he was gonna be really good" cabinet.

 

[Mainstreet]

Almost every scout leading up to the draft said Doncic was more "ready" to play in the NBA. I would expect him to hit the ground running.

I have watched him a couple games now. He is fun to watch.

Yeah, I think most fans saw Doncic playing better than Ayton coming out of the gate. Centers usually are slow starters. My biggest concern about Ayton is he is not as aggressive as I would like. We will need to check back in a few years to see who is better.

 

[BC867]

Yeah, I think most fans saw Doncic playing better than Ayton coming out of the gate. Centers usually are slow starters. My biggest concern about Ayton is he is not as aggressive as I would like. We will need to check back in a few years to see who is better.

What if Doncic had been drafted #1 by the Suns instead of Ayton? It is not a given that he would be playing up to his potential on this dysfunctional team and under an ineffective and passive Head Coach.

I maintain that Ayton, with only one year of college ball (and playing out of position at that) cannot be evaluated until he (a) plays under a talented Head Coach who is not learning leadership (poorly) on the job and (b) is not being stationed 20 feet from the basket on offense and (c) is given a chance to reach his potential under skilled leadership.

My goodness, it is like bringing a high school valedictorian with one year of community college into Kmart management and expecting perfection.

The Phoenix Suns have become the Kmart of the NBA.

 

[Russ Smith]

What if Doncic had been drafted #1 by the Suns instead of Ayton? It is not a given that he would be playing up to his potential on this dysfunctional team and under an ineffective and passive Head Coach.

I maintain that Ayton, with only one year of college ball (and playing out of position at that) cannot be evaluated until he (a) plays under a talented Head Coach who is not learning leadership (poorly) on the job and (b) is not being stationed 20 feet from the basket on offense and (c) is given a chance to reach his potential under skilled leadership.

My goodness, it is like bringing a high school valedictorian with one year of community college into Kmart management and expecting perfection.

The Phoenix Suns have become the Kmart of the NBA.

I actually wonder do they play Ayton away from the basket because they're clueless, or because that's where he's been playing since he was 15 years old? I'm not saying you're not right but the book on Ayton in HS and AAU ball was always he likes to float on the perimeter and shoot jumpers. He's a terrific shooter but obviously at his size and strength you'd like to see more in the post.

But I'm wondering if it's as simple as the kid likes to play out there and the coach figures right now the path of least resistance is the best way to use him?

 

[BC867]

I actually wonder do they play Ayton away from the basket because they're clueless, or because that's where he's been playing since he was 15 years old? I'm not saying you're not right but the book on Ayton in HS and AAU ball was always he likes to float on the perimeter and shoot jumpers. He's a terrific shooter but obviously at his size and strength you'd like to see more in the post.

But I'm wondering if it's as simple as the kid likes to play out there and the coach figures right now the path of least resistance is the best way to use him?

A valid point. If that is the case, I hope that, somehow, the Suns brain trust reacts by moving him to Power Forward alongside a Center who likes to play down low. Immediately!

We have found Holmes (pardon the pun). As others have suggested, it is worth a try. Especially with our covering the Power Forward position with Small Forwards all season, that would be an improvement at two positions.

Then, with a legitimate Point Guard, we move Book back to Shooting Guard and we've improved two more positions. And we certainly have an array of Small Forwards to choose from.

We would just have to strengthen the bench. It sounds so simple. Can no one in Suns management see that?

 

[1tinsoldier]

as much as i HATE the predictable repetition of Ayton setting picks by the 3pt line,
i am worried that if he wasn't doing that he wouldn't know what to do
aside from the clipper game, he doesn't regularly fight for position down low
and he doesn't move well without the ball

as bad as our interior passing is
you ever notice how it gets better when Holmes is in?
Holmes moves without the ball and stays active, looking for opportunites

Ayton is GREEN
he desperately needs training/coaching/guidance

 

[SunnyBaller]

Ayton is GREEN
he desperately needs training/coaching/guidance

Exactly! Everything ayton needs to work on is completely coachable and with a good coach he will learn, everything he does right are thing that cannot be taught. That's why he is the first pick.

Doncic is good but he's the type of player who probably isn't going to get better than this, he's not a freak athlete and he's already about at the extent his athletic abilities are going to take him , ayton on the other hand is more than capable of being a top 3 center in the league with a good coach , short term Doncic wins long term I see ayton being the best player from this draft

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Exactly! Everything ayton needs to work on is completely coachable and with a good coach he will learn, everything he does right are thing that cannot be taught. That's why he is the first pick.

Doncic is good but he's the type of player who probably isn't going to get better than this, he's not a freak athlete and he's already about at the extent his athletic abilities are going to take him , ayton on the other hand is more than capable of being a top 3 center in the league with a good coach , short term Doncic wins long term I see ayton being the best player from this draft

I’m going to laugh in 4 years when we look back at all the people that said 19 year old Doncic was at his ceiling 25 games into his rookie year in the nba.

 

[SunnyBaller]

I’m going to laugh in 4 years when we look back at all the people that said 19 year old Doncic was at his ceiling 25 games into his rookie year in the nba.

Well if I'm wrong fell free to quote me. Hes a good player because he's smart not because of his athletic abilities. He is probably going to get a little better because he will learn new ways to adapt but I don't think the 19 argument is all that valid with him because he has already been playing professionally for years , he's not a traditional one year of college and done rookie he already plays like a vet

 

[1tinsoldier]

yes, Doncic is smart and will learn new tricks. it is his physicality as he ages that is in question. he's got moves. but most of the time he's working at a speed that looks very guard-able.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Well if I'm wrong fell free to quote me. Hes a good player because he's smart not because of his athletic abilities. He is probably going to get a little better because he will learn new ways to adapt but I don't think the 19 argument is all that valid with him because he has already been playing professionally for years , he's not a traditional one year of college and done rookie he already plays like a vet

There is so much more to basketball than athleticism. Doncic is already performing better than I expected this year and i suspected he’d be pretty good. You’re either (a) too much of homer to even consider that someone other than Ayton could be the best player outta this draft, (b) one of those fans that doesn’t believe a white guy can be a great player (like isiah thomas’ stupid thoughts about Larry bird), (c) part of the anti-euro crowd, and (d) have extremely limited knowledge about basketball and the nba.

 

[1tinsoldier]

ouch. very sensitive

 

[GatorAZ]

What if Doncic had been drafted #1 by the Suns instead of Ayton? It is not a given that he would be playing up to his potential on this dysfunctional team and under an ineffective and passive Head Coach.

I maintain that Ayton, with only one year of college ball (and playing out of position at that) cannot be evaluated until he (a) plays under a talented Head Coach who is not learning leadership (poorly) on the job and (b) is not being stationed 20 feet from the basket on offense and (c) is given a chance to reach his potential under skilled leadership.

My goodness, it is like bringing a high school valedictorian with one year of community college into Kmart management and expecting perfection.

The Phoenix Suns have become the Kmart of the NBA.

I’d much rather be watching Luka in Phoenix for the fact he plays with passion and charisma. Ayton is the type of player that needs to be poked and prodded to play hard. You can live in denial about his competitive spirit being a product of his surroundings if you’d like.

 

[SunnyBaller]

There is so much more to basketball than athleticism. Doncic is already performing better than I expected this year and i suspected he’d be pretty good. You’re either (a) too much of homer to even consider that someone other than Ayton could be the best player outta this draft, (b) one of those fans that doesn’t believe a white guy can be a great player (like isiah thomas’ stupid thoughts about Larry bird), (c) part of the anti-euro crowd, and (d) have extremely limited knowledge about basketball and the nba.

Ha ******** man , when I joined this forum I thought you were just a troll who signed up for this forum to talk crap about a struggling franchise simply because you could never say anything positive about any promising player like ayton, but now I think you're just one of those types that is irrational and can't understand a viewpoint that isn't yours. Ill be nice and clear , I like doncic, he is already a good player , I think is career avg will be around 20-6-6 , the best players in today's game are either bigger than everyone or athletic freaks which doncic is not , I see ayton developing into one of those players as do alot of people , if you're actually a suns Fan I would expect you to want that as well and not ignore the physical gifts and flashes he has shown

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Ha ******** man , when I joined this forum I thought you were just a troll who signed up for this forum to talk crap about a struggling franchise simply because you could never say anything positive about any promising player like ayton, but now I think you're just one of those types that is irrational and can't understand a viewpoint that isn't yours. Ill be nice and clear , I like doncic, he is already a good player , I think is career avg will be around 20-6-6 , the best players in today's game are either bigger than everyone or athletic freaks which doncic is not , I see ayton developing into one of those players as do alot of people , if you're actually a suns Fan I would expect you to want that as well and not ignore the physical gifts and flashes he has shown

I thought we were talking about Doncic. My bad. If you’ve read anything I’ve said about Ayton you’d note that while I am concerned about his shortcomings I have steadfastly stumped in favor of drafting him and maintained that I have high expectations for him. I wouldn’t even take Doncic over him retroactively. But, when discussing Doncic individually (because he does exist separate and distinct from Ayton) I think you’re taking an awfully ignorant view of Doncic.

 

[SunnyBaller]

I thought we were talking about Doncic. My bad. If you’ve read anything I’ve said about Ayton you’d note that while I am concerned about his shortcomings I have steadfastly stumped in favor of drafting him and maintained that I have high expectations for him. I wouldn’t even take Doncic over him retroactively. But, when discussing Doncic individually (because he does exist separate and distinct from Ayton) I think you’re taking an awfully ignorant view of Doncic.

Since I joined I don't think (other than the clippers game) ive seen you say anything positive about his play, like at all ha.i don't have an ignorant view on him at all , if ayton doesn't develop like I think he will than ya I think doncic will end up the best player from this draft, it has nothing to do with him being white or European, I was talking about upside and what I've seen on the court ,athletic ability is incredibly important in the NBA, you're right it's not everything but it can be the difference between an all-star and a hall of fame player and I give that edge to ayton

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Since I joined I don't think (other than the clippers game) ive seen you say anything positive about his play, like at all ha.i don't have an ignorant view on him at all , if ayton doesn't develop like I think he will than ya I think doncic will end up the best player from this draft, it has nothing to do with him being white or European, I was talking about upside and what I've seen on the court ,athletic ability is incredibly important in the NBA, you're right it's not everything but it can be the difference between an all-star and a hall of fame player and I give that edge to ayton

I don’t know what to tell ya, you’re focusing on just the negative comments I’ve made, which I own 100%. Usually it’s accompanied by the fact that I still have hope him the future. But if you’ve only been posting for a couple weeks I would t expect you to know my positions on anyone on the team, the front office, ownership, the history of team or anything else.

 

[sdscard4]

Kinda creepy....stalker creepy

 

[SunnyBaller]

I don’t know what to tell ya, you’re focusing on just the negative comments I’ve made, which I own 100%. Usually it’s accompanied by the fact that I still have hope him the future. But if you’ve only been posting for a couple weeks I would t expect you to know my positions on anyone on the team, the front office, ownership, the history of team or anything else.

That might be I normally only read the game threads which must people are very negative on, partcularly about ayton, which baffles me because everyone plays bad (outside of Holmes). This thread is about ayton and doncic and when you look at what ayton is able to do with this level of effort you'd have to be excited about what a good coach can do for him which is why I'm still so high in him and don't understand why some people on here act like he's a bust

 

[sunsfan88]

I’m going to laugh in 4 years when we look back at all the people that said 19 year old Doncic was at his ceiling 25 games into his rookie year in the nba.

It’s funny to laugh now at the people who said Doncic’s ceiling would be Joe Ingles

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

That might be I normally only read the game threads which must people are very negative on, partcularly about ayton, which baffles me because everyone plays bad (outside of Holmes). This thread is about ayton and doncic and when you look at what ayton is able to do with this level of effort you'd have to be excited about what a good coach can do for him which is why I'm still so high in him and don't understand why some people on here act like he's a bust

I can’t recall many, if any, that have called him a bust. But just because he’s successful in some aspects and potentially has the greatest upside amongst all rookies doesn’t mean he doesn’t have warts or that we can’t discuss them. I mean, by far booker is our best player, but we certainly discuss his shortcomings, like defense, as well. Doesn’t mean that we think he’s a bust or that we don’t recognize he’s leaps and bounds better than anyone else we have and creates hope for the future. I think some of you believe that if criticize a player we are negating what he does well. That’s not the case. We are just, at any given moment, discussing that aspect of their game. That’s not a crime, and unless you live in a black and white world where everything is all bad or all good, you can discuss the grays like pros and cons of a player. The truth with Ayton is most of us on this board have been discussing for well over a year dating back to his first days are UofA. And we’ve salivated over his strengths. So we’ve talked his upside virtually to death. Now that we’re exposed to even more of him and actually at the nba level instead of projecting him to the nba we are finding more and more minutiae to dissect and discuss. If we were talking about his amazing physical traits we would just be echoing a bunch of conversations that we’ve already had.

 

[SunnyBaller]

I can’t recall many, if any, that have called him a bust. But just because he’s successful in some aspects and potentially has the greatest upside amongst all rookies doesn’t mean he doesn’t have warts or that we can’t discuss them. I mean, by far booker is our best player, but we certainly discuss his shortcomings, like defense, as well. Doesn’t mean that we think he’s a bust or that we don’t recognize he’s leaps and bounds better than anyone else we have and creates hope for the future. I think some of you believe that if criticize a player we are negating what he does well. That’s not the case. We are just, at any given moment, discussing that aspect of their game. That’s not a crime, and unless you live in a black and white world where everything is all bad or all good, you can discuss the grays like pros and cons of a player. The truth with Ayton is most of us on this board have been discussing for well over a year dating back to his first days are UofA. And we’ve salivated over his strengths. So we’ve talked his upside virtually to death. Now that we’re exposed to even more of him and actually at the nba level instead of projecting him to the nba we are finding more and more minutiae to dissect and discuss. If we were talking about his amazing physical traits we would just be echoing a bunch of conversations that we’ve already had.

I've seen a few people on here call him a bust, or say that we wasted another top pick, gave him horrible player comparisons or things along those lines, there's two clear sides to this board people who actually discuss the way he plays and understands what's going on and people who it's obvious just read box scores and assume he sucked because he doesn't have 30-15 and 6 blocks

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I've seen a few people on here call him a bust, or say that we wasted another top pick, gave him horrible player comparisons or things along those lines, there's two clear sides to this board people who actually discuss the way he plays and understands what's going on and people who it's obvious just read box scores and assume he sucked because he doesn't have 30-15 and 6 blocks

Man you don’t know this board at all.

 

[pokerface]

Ha ******** man , when I joined this forum I thought you were just a troll who signed up for this forum to talk crap about a struggling franchise simply because you could never say anything positive about any promising player like ayton, but now I think you're just one of those types that is irrational and can't understand a viewpoint that isn't yours. Ill be nice and clear , I like doncic, he is already a good player , I think is career avg will be around 20-6-6 , the best players in today's game are either bigger than everyone or athletic freaks which doncic is not , I see ayton developing into one of those players as do alot of people , if you're actually a suns Fan I would expect you to want that as well and not ignore the physical gifts and flashes he has shown

Uhh...who are you ? Never seen you before and you seem to know 'something'

 

[Carolinacacti]

Well I wanted Ayton to win ROY award and maybe when Booker comes back things will pick up. My god he is only 20 and who ever thought that the Center position was a thing of the past in the NBA is wrong. The Kid is going up against some really good bigs. He sure is not use to playing more then twice a week, give him some time.