AYTON TRADED!

[GatorAZ]

Ayton has attempted 5 free throws in 11 games this season.

I wonder how bad that ranks among players that have logged over 300 minutes this year.

 

[Bufalay]

I wonder how bad that ranks among players that have logged over 300 minutes this year.

3rd worst.

126 Dorian Finney-Smith 334.0 3.0
328 Royce O'Neale 346.0 4.0
14 Deandre Ayton 347.0 5.0
174 Josh Hart 318.0 7.0
5 Grayson Allen 342.0 10.0
373 Duncan Robinson 314.0 10.0
89 Mike Conley 316.0 12.0
352 Michael Porter Jr. 330.0 13.0
160 Josh Green 316.0 14.0
142 Josh Giddey 308.0 15.0

 

[Bufalay]

3rd worst.

126 Dorian Finney-Smith 334.0 3.0
328 Royce O'Neale 346.0 4.0
14 Deandre Ayton 347.0 5.0
174 Josh Hart 318.0 7.0
5 Grayson Allen 342.0 10.0
373 Duncan Robinson 314.0 10.0
89 Mike Conley 316.0 12.0
352 Michael Porter Jr. 330.0 13.0
160 Josh Green 316.0 14.0
142 Josh Giddey 308.0 15.0

BTW KD has the 3rd most attempts


Player MP FTA
122 Joel Embiid 375.0 118.0
8 Giannis Antetokounmpo 325.0 108.0
116 Kevin Durant 403.0 101.0
496 Trae Young 356.0 98.0
110 Luka Dončić 417.0 92.0
22 Paolo Banchero 373.0 79.0
1 Bam Adebayo 347.0 76.0
103 DeMar DeRozan 384.0 72.0
101 Anthony Davis 396.0 72.0
99 Stephen Curry 357.0 71.0

 

[Hoop Head]

3rd worst.

126 Dorian Finney-Smith 334.0 3.0
328 Royce O'Neale 346.0 4.0
14 Deandre Ayton 347.0 5.0
174 Josh Hart 318.0 7.0
5 Grayson Allen 342.0 10.0
373 Duncan Robinson 314.0 10.0
89 Mike Conley 316.0 12.0
352 Michael Porter Jr. 330.0 13.0
160 Josh Green 316.0 14.0
142 Josh Giddey 308.0 15.0

Not surprising he's only real big on that list. Everyone else are shooters, or being used as shooters. Ayton isn't shooting 3's in Portland like he's wanted to either. Conley is a bit surprising to see but he's getting up there in age and isn't capable of driving like he used to. He's also playing a reduced role in Minnesota.

Allen's reputation works against him as much as being a Sun does. He gets hacked a lot but refs are human and he has an extremely punchable face so I can't entirely fault them for not blowing their whistle in his favor more.

 

[MigratingOsprey]

This direct comparison of players misses the mark a little bit.

It's also about team building and structure.

Neither player is crazy impactful or a cornerstone.

However, Nurkic will cost $14m-$15m less per season.

This allows the team to invest elsewhere - hopefully in players that will make the impact that neither of these bigs can

It also gives more flexibility as the Nurkic contact will be easier to package and move - not that it's a great contact either, it definitely isn't

It's just less crippling on a veteran team of high paid players

Ayton had shown what he is and it's not a guy that you want taking up over 20% of the league cap, thinking he's a superstar while consistently checking out and playing soft

Not to mention the potential for locker room and team dynamics in this move

So we can squabble about assists and free throws, athleticism vs game smarts, etc.

The bottom line is that both are incomplete, neither are reliable, neither are centerpieces - one of them understands that, the other doesn't and carries a much higher salary

Ayton is the 7th highest paid big in the league - he's within $4m of being top 5. There is a $7m gap to 8th.

He's just not that guy

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Ayton has attempted 5 free throws in 11 games this season.

That is truly astonishing.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

3rd worst.

126 Dorian Finney-Smith 334.0 3.0
328 Royce O'Neale 346.0 4.0
14 Deandre Ayton 347.0 5.0
174 Josh Hart 318.0 7.0
5 Grayson Allen 342.0 10.0
373 Duncan Robinson 314.0 10.0
89 Mike Conley 316.0 12.0
352 Michael Porter Jr. 330.0 13.0
160 Josh Green 316.0 14.0
142 Josh Giddey 308.0 15.0

Grayson Allen is doubling his output. Lol.

 

[Mainstreet]

Why are you comparing Draymond Green to Ayton?

I knew I should have edited that typo. Nothing goes unnoticed on the forum.

 

[Yuma]

Hoop Head said:
Why are you comparing Draymond Green to Ayton?

Because both are Chokers?

 

[Vacard]

Ayton on his way to another double double. Man he could be valuable on a team with three scorers

 

[nashman]

Ayton is not what this team needed period! His piss poor attitude requesting trade shows all you need to know about his soft ass! He didn’t want to be here and bet you Book and KD wanted his lazy ass out of here too! He’s gone let it go who cares! Nurk, Little, Allen will provide us more and are much more easily moved if we need to make a move later! DA is and was not worth his contract and everyone knew it which is why it was difficult to get much for him. You were flat out never getting a star or anything for him and should’ve with his stupid contract! I don’t think he cover even sniffs his finals level of play again dude got paid then started dogging it!

 

[BirdGangThing]

Ayton on his way to another double double. Man he could be valuable on a team with three scorers

7 offensive rebounds and 17 pts - sounds like Ayton was manifesting his own destiny tonight - even shot a couple free throws

 

[Mainstreet]

Ayton is not what this team needed period! His piss poor attitude requesting trade shows all you need to know about his soft ass! He didn’t want to be here and bet you Book and KD wanted his lazy ass out of here too! He’s gone let it go who cares! Nurk, Little, Allen will provide us more and are much more easily moved if we need to make a move later! DA is and was not worth his contract and everyone knew it which is why it was difficult to get much for him. You were flat out never getting a star or anything for him and should’ve with his stupid contract! I don’t think he cover even sniffs his finals level of play again dude got paid then started dogging it!

I'd like to see Nassir Little step up his game. He could be a missing piece for the Suns.

 

[BirdGangThing]

Also looks like Camara started tonight - played 36 minutes - gotta wonder if that trend continues

 

[GatorAZ]

Also looks like Camara started tonight - played 36 minutes - gotta wonder if that trend continues

He wouldn’t be playing here.

 

[Mainstreet]

Also looks like Camara started tonight - played 36 minutes - gotta wonder if that trend continues

That's what the Trail Blazers should do. They are not going anywhere.

The more I think about it, I'm guessing the Trail Blazers wanted the Suns to draft Camara. James Jones has not been good at drafting.

 

[Phrazbit]

That's what the Trail Blazers should do. They are not going anywhere.

The more I think about it, I'm guessing the Trail Blazers wanted the Suns to draft Camara. James Jones has not been good at drafting.

The notion that Jones is bad at drafting is too simplistic.

He took over the team with a mandate to win, immediately. His predecessor drafted seemingly nothing but projects, and other than Booker, he whiffed on all of them.

The only thing I can say for sure, is that Jones took over a team that was a bottom 5 team for years, he took it over with an mandate to win now... and within 3 years that team was in the finals. He deserves a ton of credit for that.

Really, the only move that I think Jones, and only Jones, really screwed up was drafting Smith over Haliberton... and yeah... that was a big miss, but a bunch of teams passed on Haliberton too.

I also don't think the Blazers had any part whatsoever in our drafting of Camara... the draft and the trade and all the things that influenced the trade happening are so extremely unrelated that... just... no. We drafted Camara, for us. We gave him up in the Ayton trade because either Jones or those Jones answers too deemed it worth the sacrifice.

 

[Big Al]

That is truly astonishing.

Hoop Head said:
Why are you comparing Draymond Green to Ayton?

Because both are Chokers?

I disagree. I think we won the trade but it was far from a great trade. DA, huge disappointment though he's been, is simply a better player than Nurkic. We won this by the narrow margin of whatever Allen brings to the table above what you could expect from an average middle-of-the-bench player. And, perhaps, in the longterm, we win this even more if the salary savings ever factors into the equation.

20pts / 17 rebounds / 8 assists are not dog numbers

Nurk's issues lie with consistency - Nurk's issues lie with defending American Centers (in the paint) - Nurk's issues lie with trying to dribble the ball in between rebounding it and putting it back up

But Nurk also has 46 assists!! And some of those had to be for 3 so we're talking 100 pts - in just assists alone - in just 10 games - not a dog

(we'd also have a couple more losses if it weren't for Nurk)

Nurkic is still a Dog as is Ayton. Nurkic is a slow moving assist Dog & Ayton is a more mobile rebounding low self esteem who checks out Dog. Both are Get By NBA Centers at best.True we save money with Nurkic but Ayton's differences in pay is just distributed to other + or - role players. Maybe useful in trades later.

Suns are still a jump shooting team however a better jump shooting team than last year with the Big 3 but one Big 3 we hope the back is not going to continue to be an issues but we still lacks a brut force inside power forward to get put backs, provide some toughness, protect the rim, & get a respectable & consistent amounted of boards. Closest players going to the rim is 6'10" Eubanks and a pair of 6'3" players in Beal & Okgie. And Beal is out with a bad back & Okgie while has moments to applause is still inconsistent. I like a little mix of inside & outside offense.
We know Ayton was the #1 pick but we got to move on from Ayton for good as it didn't work but neither did NBA draft bust Dragan Bender, Marquese Chris, Josh Jackson, and to a lesser degree Alex Len who once said he would be the best of his draft class. I don't think anyone cried as much about those failures. We made the necessary trade to move on from a malcontent player in Ayton.
Anyway we climbed to .500 in win- loss column. So let's keep it going Suns!!!

Nurk gives us a less expensive version of frustration. Still disappointed we couldn't get more but still believe we won the deal.

 

[Mainstreet]

Nurkic is still a Dog as is Ayton. Nurkic is a slow moving assist Dog & Ayton is a more mobile rebounding low self esteem who checks out Dog. Both are Get By NBA Centers at best.True we save money with Nurkic but Ayton's differences in pay is just distributed to other + or - role players. Maybe useful in trades later.

Suns are still a jump shooting team however a better jump shooting team than last year with the Big 3 but one Big 3 we hope the back is not going to continue to be an issues but we still lacks a brut force inside power forward to get put backs, provide some toughness, protect the rim, & get a respectable & consistent amounted of boards. Closest players going to the rim is 6'10" Eubanks and a pair of 6'3" players in Beal & Okgie. And Beal is out with a bad back & Okgie while has moments to applause is still inconsistent. I like a little mix of inside & outside offense.
We know Ayton was the #1 pick but we got to move on from Ayton for good as it didn't work but neither did NBA draft bust Dragan Bender, Marquese Chris, Josh Jackson, and to a lesser degree Alex Len who once said he would be the best of his draft class. I don't think anyone cried as much about those failures. We made the necessary trade to move on from a malcontent player in Ayton.
Anyway we climbed to .500 in win- loss column. So let's keep it going Suns!!!

I agree, the Suns need more toughness inside. If Nassir Little could develop, he would go a long way towards filling a need.

 

[1982baskets]

Nurkic is willing to play a role, something Ayton seemed opposed to. The main difference I see is you went from having 1 starting level player, to 2. Make no bones about it, in the playoffs, both Ayton and Nurkic type of Centers are only useful in certain match ups. So then it comes down to Grayson. He's a lot more useful being that he can defend a bit, make 3s and attack the rim.

I don't mind what Suns got for Ayton, I think with time it will show that it was a solid deal. The deal I'm worried about is the Beal deal. Beal is like a luxury when you already have a strong playoff 8-9 man rotation. When you have all those parts and then you add a third star like Beal, it puts you over the top.

That said, it won't be fair to evaluate this team until they are healthy. At the same time, with Beal's history it was a given that the team won't be able to be healthy and would need depth. Depth they just don't possess, meaning the Ayton trade was even more needed.

I see us being a play in team unless Book/Durant stay healthy all season here on out.

 

[Mainstreet]

The notion that Jones is bad at drafting is too simplistic.

He took over the team with a mandate to win, immediately. His predecessor drafted seemingly nothing but projects, and other than Booker, he whiffed on all of them.

The only thing I can say for sure, is that Jones took over a team that was a bottom 5 team for years, he took it over with an mandate to win now... and within 3 years that team was in the finals. He deserves a ton of credit for that.

Really, the only move that I think Jones, and only Jones, really screwed up was drafting Smith over Haliberton... and yeah... that was a big miss, but a bunch of teams passed on Haliberton too.

I also don't think the Blazers had any part whatsoever in our drafting of Camara... the draft and the trade and all the things that influenced the trade happening are so extremely unrelated that... just... no. We drafted Camara, for us. We gave him up in the Ayton trade because either Jones or those Jones answers too deemed it worth the sacrifice.

I don't think James Jones values the draft and developing players as much as he should. His philosophy bothers me the most.

The linked article below says a lot.

If given a choice, my guess is he would rather trade for a player than risk drafting one. His moves tend to support that. Personally, I think there is room for both.

I give James Jones credit for trading down for Cam Johnson and adding Dario Saric in the 2019 draft, but the Suns passing on Haliburton in the 2020 draft and some other candidates at #10 raised a lot of questions for me.

There was also the trade of a first round pick for Landry Shamet in the 2021 draft.

Suns GM James Jones Admits He 'Probably' Would Have Passed on Devin Booker

Jones recently did an interview with ESPN about Phoenix's approach to the NBA Draft.

www.si.com

 

[AzStevenCal]

I don't think James Jones values the draft and developing players as much as he should. His philosophy bothers me the most.

The linked article below says a lot.

If given a choice, my guess is he would rather trade for a player than risk drafting one. His moves tend to support that. Personally, I think there is room for both.

I give James Jones credit for trading down for Cam Johnson and adding Dario Saric in the 2019 draft, but the Suns passing on Haliburton in the 2020 draft and some other candidates at #10 raised a lot of questions for me.

There was also the trade of a first round pick for Landry Shamet in the 2021 draft.

Suns GM James Jones Admits He 'Probably' Would Have Passed on Devin Booker

Jones recently did an interview with ESPN about Phoenix's approach to the NBA Draft.

www.si.com

I think pointing to Haliburton to support your position on JJ's philosophy misses what happened. Whether you agree with his reasoning or not (and I know you and most of the board do not), he didn't pass on Haliburton because of his age or his talent/potential. He passed on Haliburton for the same reason that Pop passed on him. We couldn't interview him, we couldn't work him out, we couldn't get his medical records and we couldn't do a background check on him.

I think JJ has the right idea (that experienced players win games) but he goes too far if he truly doesn't believe in developing young players. As long as he's with the Suns, I'm going to continue to hope that it was Sarver that led to JJ going to this extreme and that with RS out of the picture, his approach will change. But that's probably not going to come into play until we add a G League team and replace our draft pick cupboard.

 

[Mainstreet]

I think pointing to Haliburton to support your position on JJ's philosophy misses what happened. Whether you agree with his reasoning or not (and I know you and most of the board do not), he didn't pass on Haliburton because of his age or his talent/potential. He passed on Haliburton for the same reason that Pop passed on him. We couldn't interview him, we couldn't work him out, we couldn't get his medical records and we couldn't do a background check on him.

I think JJ has the right idea (that experienced players win games) but he goes too far if he truly doesn't believe in developing young players. As long as he's with the Suns, I'm going to continue to hope that it was Sarver that led to JJ going to this extreme and that with RS out of the picture, his approach will change. But that's probably not going to come into play until we add a G League team and replace our draft pick cupboard.

I was responding to a post where it was mentioned, James Jones passing on Haliburton was a mistake.

If Jones didn't like the options at #10 he could have probably traded down or out of the draft. Jones should have had similar options in the 2020 draft as he did in the 2019 draft.

His philosophy towards drafting and developing players bothers me the most.

If Jones can't hit on a pick at #10 in 2020 or #29 in 2021 (traded for Shamet), it's hard for me to believe he has a firm grip on the #52 pick in the 2023 draft.

Whether James Jones can change his philosophy in drafting and developing players remains to be seen. I hope so for the Suns sake.

 

[BirdGangThing]

James Jones and his drafting got us KD

 

[Superbone]

You can't accuse him of a moving screen:

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