Ayton's Development at the Quarter Mark of 2018-2019 Season

Hoop Head

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I think Bender's ceiling was high, but his skills were not NBA ready. A 7 footer with excellant feet. The upside is tremendous. The development has been poor. Len, Bender, Chriss, etc. Who have we developed? I think TJ and Booker are the outliers. TJ spent hours in the gym, and Booker too working on their games on their own. They developed despite our program.

That made me think back to how we haven't developed a big of any sort since Amare and the coaches he credited with helping him were D'Antoni and Marc Iavaroni. I know Mark West worked with him, and West has worked with pretty much everyone that has been through here since but that's it. D'Antoni was the last coach who developed players and that says something since he didn't care for rookies and how he said it wasn't his job to develop players. His brother worked 1 on 1 with Barbosa also. Since then we've had a lot of picks flame out. Someone might make a case for Robin Lopez but he improved after leaving and having a brother who was an All-Star helped him some also. Since he and Brook were close it's not odd to think they would work together away from their teams. The same with the Morrii. The only non-brothers we've had pan out are Booker and Warren and TJ is who he was in college, for the most part, and Booker has been pushing himself to greatness, it seems. I don't think the Suns can take credit for developing anyone throughout Sarver's ownership of the team.
 
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Timm Rosenbach

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For perspective: Josh Jackson isn’t progressing either. I’d say he’s getting worse. Both Ayton and Jackson were excellent in college and had games tailor-made for the pros. I can see someone like Bender not developing because his ceiling is very low. The others are a product of coaching. Jayson Tatum isn’t the same player on this roster. Neither is Luka Doncic.

Phoenix: Where college players go to be ruined by bad coaching
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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insider article. give us a summation.
He’s short on experience compared to most rookies. Has gotten by on raw physical talent. Has a LOT of growth necessary. His motor runs hot and cold and needs to get more consistent. Not known for living in the gym. Comparing he and Doncic makes no sense based on their backgrounds.

Suns director of player development had lots of quotes. What I thought were very insightful comments. If they are truly working on these things and Ayton gets them, he will be great. If he doesn’t and coasts, he’ll be somewhat a disappointment.

DEFENSE:

Motor - needs to get better. Ayton expresses surprise that he has to bring it every night.

Pick and roll nuance - working on all the little things - particularly positioning to not get overcommitted or non committed. Needs to work on footwork. Took gobert 3 years to get it.

Rim protection - he’s supposed to be protecting the rim. He doesn’t always jump. Sometimes he’s in good position but does nothing to challenge ball. Difficult to gauge instincts because motor is hot and cold and fundamentals are raw.

Finding a body - “can fall into 8 rebounds given size and athleticism” but needs to work on boxing out. Most hope for him to improve most quickly here. Think he should become 15 rebound/game guy.

OFFENSE

Become elite roller - very nimble and tough contain when deep. Needs to learn all nuances can take wrong angles.

Assertiveness - in summary just not assertive. Having tough time adapting to 24 second shot clock. Will get ball in good position and pass out. Should be averaging 6 free throws per game but only at two. Too often floats. When does dive freezes at sign of help defense and turns ball over instead of drawing contact. Ayton admits he’s too passive but he thinks he’s making the right play when he sees someone open. Good passer but sometimes it’s playmaking by default because he doesn’t feel comfortable going at his man in the post. Too often suns multiple attempts to feed him in the post and kicks it back out to repost with not enough time on the clock. Player development guy is like “no man we want you to go to work. Your teammates want you to go to work.”

Lift under jumpers - needs to establish in post first then get to jumpers. Jumpers are too flat. Needs to establish proficiency before starts taking 3s.

Looking forward - he’s at where our expectations should be . . . for now. Question is will he put in time and will suns set him up for success. Could be perennial all star and one of top defensive players in league. Depends on willingness to put in work. Suns guy knows it’s his and suns organizations responsibility to get him there.
 

Yuma

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The jumpers part, if you go back to the beginning of the season he was shooting with arc and a very very soft touch. Had some bouncing on the rim shots go in. Over at least the last month the flat shot has happened. Is he tired? Nervous and not going through his normal mechanics? Something changed because he had Karl Malone results on his jumper early in the season. The timing and rythm have to return to how he shot early on.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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The jumpers part, if you go back to the beginning of the season he was shooting with arc and a very very soft touch. Had some bouncing on the rim shots go in. Over at least the last month the flat shot has happened. Is he tired? Nervous and not going through his normal mechanics? Something changed because he had Karl Malone results on his jumper early in the season. The timing and rythm have to return to how he shot early on.
He did make the comment in the article that he’s a rhythm shooter and teammates neees to learn his rhythm
 

95pro

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The jumpers part, if you go back to the beginning of the season he was shooting with arc and a very very soft touch. Had some bouncing on the rim shots go in. Over at least the last month the flat shot has happened. Is he tired? Nervous and not going through his normal mechanics? Something changed because he had Karl Malone results on his jumper early in the season. The timing and rythm have to return to how he shot early on.

He almost seems to have lost confidence in his shot. There’s a little pause as he tries to figure out exactly what he should do; shoot pass or attack.

He started better earlier because I think he’s an outside-in player not an inside-out player. Beginning of year, ball, square up, jumper. No thought. And now we see him struggle to bang or go at his guy while he has separation.
 

Suns_fan69

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The defense is also pushing up a lot more, both because he's shown an ability to make that jumper, and also because he hasn't shown any ability to take anyone off the dribble so there's no reason to not get up under his shirt.


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TJ

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He’s been more active defensively imo. Who has his competition been?
Definitely a big step up from the beginning of the year overall, even if inconsistent play by play. The big thing to my eye is he's doing a much better job rotating and challenging when plays break down.

Here's a tweet I saw from reddit:

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Another thing that's been helping Ayton is that the first-line defense has been better, so he isn't asked to perform a miracle on every play.

By the way, Towns is as soft as we hope Ayton won't be in another four years.

I knew Towns was soft but I didn't realize how soft he was until the other night. He really shrunk on both sides of the ball when his team needed him to step up.

After finally seeing the Timberwolves play this year I don't think Rose has returned to playing like an All-Star so much as he's the only guy there who is willing to step up when they need someone to. He's playing well but I've heard a lot of talk about how he's returned to his Chicago form and he's had some great games statistically as well but no one on that team other than maybe Teague has the mentality to play hard all game. Saric and Covington were good as well but they're new there and I'd be surprised if their effort stays up while they play with the underperforming duo of KAT and Wiggins. I understand why Butler wanted out there after seeing Wiggins and KAT play like they did. Wiggins effort has been questioned for a while now but Towns is no better. For some reason KAT gets a pass from the media for disappearing just like Wiggins. I don't even think he's a real Center. He's more of a PF with how he played, similar to a Channing Frye type of stretch big. Maybe the Suns game was an off night but I think that's something Minnesota fans see more than they don't from him. He had a good first half but that doesn't matter if he doesn't score again until garbage time.
 

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I haven't gone back to check but I wonder if Aytons inspired defense coincides with Holmes getting more of his minutes.

I'm sure watching how Holmes play has had a positive impact. Whatever it is I hope it continues. Ayton playing defense is a real game changer.
 

JCSunsfan

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Another thing that's been helping Ayton is that the first-line defense has been better, so he isn't asked to perform a miracle on every play.

By the way, Towns is as soft as we hope Ayton won't be in another four years.
Absolutely. I think PG defense is very highly underrated in the NBA. When your pg plays aggressive D it makes the other team's entire offense more difficult to run. It gives everyone else a split second more time to adjust.
 

BC867

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Absolutely. I think PG defense is very highly underrated in the NBA. When your pg plays aggressive D it makes the other team's entire offense more difficult to run. It gives everyone else a split second more time to adjust.
Which is why many of us haven't wanted to see Booker in the Point Guard position. It not only makes us less competitive for the very reason you mentioned, but drains DBook as well.
 

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Ayton has also developed into Jamal Crawford’s dad

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slinslin

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for all the BS I have to read on twitter about Ayton's defense he is allowing less DFG% (defensive fg%) than Steven Adams, Rudy Gobert, Clint Capela and DeAndre Jordan ON THE SEASON.

Jusuf Nurkic (44.0%)
Joel Embiid (45.0%)
Karl Anthony Towns (46.3%)
Deandre Ayton (47.1%)
Steven Adams (48.1%)
Rudy Gobert (48.8%)
Clint Capela (48.9%)
DeAndre Jordan (49.8%)
 

Sunburn

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for all the BS I have to read on twitter about Ayton's defense he is allowing less DFG% (defensive fg%) than Steven Adams, Rudy Gobert, Clint Capela and DeAndre Jordan ON THE SEASON.

Jusuf Nurkic (44.0%)
Joel Embiid (45.0%)
Karl Anthony Towns (46.3%)
Deandre Ayton (47.1%)
Steven Adams (48.1%)
Rudy Gobert (48.8%)
Clint Capela (48.9%)
DeAndre Jordan (49.8%)

His man defense is fine. It's his help defense that can be a problem. He routinely lets guys waltz past him for a lay-up without contesting. He's been a bit better as of late.
 

1Sun

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for all the BS I have to read on twitter about Ayton's defense he is allowing less DFG% (defensive fg%) than Steven Adams, Rudy Gobert, Clint Capela and DeAndre Jordan ON THE SEASON.

Jusuf Nurkic (44.0%)
Joel Embiid (45.0%)
Karl Anthony Towns (46.3%)
Deandre Ayton (47.1%)
Steven Adams (48.1%)
Rudy Gobert (48.8%)
Clint Capela (48.9%)
DeAndre Jordan (49.8%)

Considering that Karl Anthony Towns, a notoriously bad defender, is allowing even less, I wouldn't put much stock in this.
 

CardsSunsDbacks

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Considering that Karl Anthony Towns, a notoriously bad defender, is allowing even less, I wouldn't put much stock in this.
You wouldn't put much stock into DFG% against? It is one of the most clear cut stats to determine on ball defense that there is. This is not suggesting that he is good in every aspect of defense, but in one on one he is pretty good.
 

Proximo

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for all the BS I have to read on twitter about Ayton's defense he is allowing less DFG% (defensive fg%) than Steven Adams, Rudy Gobert, Clint Capela and DeAndre Jordan ON THE SEASON.

Jusuf Nurkic (44.0%)
Joel Embiid (45.0%)
Karl Anthony Towns (46.3%)
Deandre Ayton (47.1%)
Steven Adams (48.1%)
Rudy Gobert (48.8%)
Clint Capela (48.9%)
DeAndre Jordan (49.8%)

It's simple, his one on one post defense is quite good. His help defense is pathetic.
 

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