BA - Classic line about DJ Humphries - Knee Deep

[Mitch]

Mitch - Humphries knows by now what type of coach, and more importantly, what type of person BA is... If Arians was nothing but a dictator type who got his jollies by embarrassing his players, that would of course be problematic and I would say that BA would not be nearly as successful as he's been...
The reality is BA is anything but. He is hard on players in the sense that he expects a lot from them, but nothing more than what they are capable of producing. And when players do meet his expectations, he loves on them in a way that few other head coaches seem capable of doing. Players love BA... And in part, it's because he is consistent... He is a straight-shooter, pull no punches, in your face (with the good and the bad) type of person. Players always know exactly where they stand with him. They always know what he expects of them. As a result, he is viewed as trustworthy... which, in todays' NFL, seems to be quite rare. Add in BA's quirky yet relatable personality, and again - the players love the guy.

DJ knows all of this. Which means he knows what is expected of him. And he knows that if he gives the type of effort that should be expected from a 1st round professional, he will then reap the rewards and benefits that come from meeting BA's expectations.

There is zero harm/risk in what BA did here... The real risk is that we may have taken a kid in the first round, who doesn't possess heart & desire to match his promise...

I respectfully disagree with you about the zero risk.

Think about this---this is how bad this has become---we aren't even playing the starters Thursday, and Humphries isn't even in the starting lineup---he is behind Bradley Sowell and Earl Watford.

How many of you thought that was even remotely possible on Draft Night?

Better yet, give me an example of an NFL head coach who has gone public with an embarrassing nickname for a 1st round draft pick?

BA has his warts---and one of them is that at times his mouth gets the better of him.

Sure I get the whole ride their asses and then hug em later.

But, to resort to this type of public tactic is classless and so far it has backfired at a time when we desperately need a tackle.

 

[Bert]

I respectfully disagree with you about the zero risk.

Think about this---this is how bad this has become---we aren't even playing the starters Thursday, and Humphries isn't even in the starting lineup---he is behind Bradley Sowell and Earl Watford.

How many of you thought that was even remotely possible on Draft Night?

Better yet, give me an example of an NFL head coach who has gone public with an embarrassing nickname for a 1st round draft pick?

BA has his warts---and one of them is that at times his mouth gets the better of him.

Sure I get the whole ride their asses and then hug em later.

But, to resort to this type of public tactic is classless and so far it has backfired at a time when we desperately need a tackle.

I still dont understand how you know it has backfired?

How do you know that BA's comment is responsible for DJ's current predicament? I am truly not trying to be combative, I have nothing against you Mitch. I just want to know what you have seen that directly correlates DJ's lack of playing time and performance to BA's comment.

 

[MadCardDisease]

for what it's worth, according to MJ today:

BA: mentioned DJ Humphries has made progress in the last 10 days

 

[Cheesebeef]

I respectfully disagree with you about the zero risk.

Think about this---this is how bad this has become---we aren't even playing the starters Thursday, and Humphries isn't even in the starting lineup---he is behind Bradley Sowell and Earl Watford.

How many of you thought that was even remotely possible on Draft Night?

Better yet, give me an example of an NFL head coach who has gone public with an embarrassing nickname for a 1st round draft pick?

Bill Parcells referred to Terry Glenn as HER/SHE as a rookie... and then he went out and had a 1100 yard/6 TD season helping that team get to the Super Bowl.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I still dont understand how you know it has backfired?

seriously. ALL reports are that Humphries STUNK at the beginning of camp and has gotten better in camp after BA ripped him.

 

[Mainstreet]

I never expected DJ Humphries to start this season for what it is worth.

 

[kerouac9]

1) I hope you are right, but sometimes public ridicule can backfire and create quite a stigma for a young player.

2) That's a great question. The "knee deep" moniker may have actually come from Harold Goodwin and was subsequently seconded and reiterated by BA. I heard or read a suggestion to that effect and I can't remember where or when.

Humphries said he was surprised the moniker became public---and he did his best to shrug it off and to say the right things that he was going to let it motivate him---but, who knows how he is really taking it?

What we do know is that Humphries is struggling far worse than what one would expect from a first round pick---sure---other young tackles have struggled and now pro coaches are claiming that college coaches aren't teaching OL the way it should be taught---but still, Humphries does not look confident at all out there.

I maintain too---as I have for all the years the Cardinals have ignored the OLB position and continued to draft slow, bull rushing run stoppers instead of fast, quick edge stormers, is that it has stunted the growth of our tackles because the slower than average OLBs can't assimilate the kind of pass rush the tackles need in order to master their technique. So, they get in games against speed guys with quick spin, rip or swim moves and get exposed, often badly as Sowell, Veldheer and Humphries is versus Oakland.

It's an on-going cycle.

I don't know if you saw the Jonathan Martin Facebook post that got picked up last week, but I think you'll find it relevant to this discussion: http://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2015...-martin-facebook-post-nfl-retirement-dolphins

My feeling is that if the Knee-Deep thing had gone more viral, Arians (or the Cardinals) would be trying to walk it back. I haven't heard it repeated on any of the official broadcasts — and if Wolfley isn't saying it, the team doesn't want it said.

I think that Humphries walked in with a "told you so" attitude where things came easy for him. It's possible that this is the first hardship he's ever had to encounter as an athlete. I wouldn't be surprised if calling him out on a microphone was the fourth or fifth option that Uncle Bruce tried.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Arians calling him "knee deep" has absolutely no effect on how Humphries has played, good or bad.

 

[82CardsGrad]

I respectfully disagree with you about the zero risk.

The "risk" is that Hump isn't what BASK thought he was...period.

Think about this---this is how bad this has become---we aren't even playing the starters Thursday, and Humphries isn't even in the starting lineup---he is behind Bradley Sowell and Earl Watford.

How many of you thought that was even remotely possible on Draft Night?

Better yet, give me an example of an NFL head coach who has gone public with an embarrassing nickname for a 1st round draft pick?

BA has his warts---and one of them is that at times his mouth gets the better of him.

Sure I get the whole ride their asses and then hug em later.

But, to resort to this type of public tactic is classless and so far it has backfired at a time when we desperately need a tackle.

You are WAY, WAY over the line here Mitch... I mean like a MOON-SHOT over the line.
Anything associated with Hump not starting Thursday night is entirely on him alone. If you really believe that Hump not starting on Thursday night is because he is de-motivated or sulking because his coach referred to him - ONCE - using the term Knee-Deep, well, I think your credibility seriously needs to be called into question.

FWIW, just today BA mentioned that "in the past 10 days they have seen improvement in Humphries."

 

[Mitch]

The "risk" is that Hump isn't what BASK thought he was...period.



You are WAY, WAY over the line here Mitch... I mean like a MOON-SHOT over the line.
Anything associated with Hump not starting Thursday night is entirely on him alone. If you really believe that Hump not starting on Thursday night is because he is de-motivated or sulking because his coach referred to him - ONCE - using the term Knee-Deep, well, I think your credibility seriously needs to be called into question.

FWIW, just today BA mentioned that "in the past 10 days they have seen improvement in Humphries."

I am way over the line? Wow.

What do you think coaching is?

Do you think that NFL players are naturally motivated to practice?

I teach school---and I can say 100% most of what I do with young people involves finding the right buttons to press in trying to bring out the best in them.

Do you think students are naturally motivated to go to school? Were you?

You haven't answered my question---can you name me a time and a case where another NFL head coach went public with a derogatory nickname of a 1st round draft pick?

One would think that big tough football players should be able to handle such things---but such things can become stigmas to the point where the player starts believing it himself.

I am not saying I am convinced that Humphries is at that point---but I do find it agonizing to know that we drafted a tackle in the first round this year---we are in desperate need of a tackle---and that player is behind Bradley Sowell (who has been getting tooled in the games) and Earl Watford (who hadn't even played tackle until this off-season) on our current depth chart.

That said player has been called out publicly in a derogatory and embarrassing manner. His play has not noticeably improved---the coach is now saying he's shown improvement over the past ten days because the coach is saving face and he is also acting on his mantra of coaching em hard and then hugging them later.

Humphries best game was PS game 1---worse in PS game 2 and absolute worst in PS game 3. There is not tangible evidence in these games to suggest that he has improved, in fact, quite the opposite.

 

[ajcardfan]

You are WAY, WAY over the line here Mitch... I mean like a MOON-SHOT over the line.
Anything associated with Hump not starting Thursday night is entirely on him alone. If you really believe that Hump not starting on Thursday night is because he is de-motivated or sulking because his coach referred to him - ONCE - using the term Knee-Deep, well, I think your credibility seriously needs to be called into question.

Mitch is a high school English teacher, not an NFL coach.

Why does anyone take his opinion more seriously than anyone else's on this board? We are all just flinging spaghetti on the wall to see what sticks. Mitch just flings more than anyone else. Mitch's "credibility" is irrelevant to that fact.

 

[Mitch]

I don't know if you saw the Jonathan Martin Facebook post that got picked up last week, but I think you'll find it relevant to this discussion: http://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2015...-martin-facebook-post-nfl-retirement-dolphins

My feeling is that if the Knee-Deep thing had gone more viral, Arians (or the Cardinals) would be trying to walk it back. I haven't heard it repeated on any of the official broadcasts — and if Wolfley isn't saying it, the team doesn't want it said.

I think that Humphries walked in with a "told you so" attitude where things came easy for him. It's possible that this is the first hardship he's ever had to encounter as an athlete. I wouldn't be surprised if calling him out on a microphone was the fourth or fifth option that Uncle Bruce tried.

Wow that was a great read on Jonathan Martin---imagine the challenge of trying to coach him with all that was going on in his young, vulnerable psyche.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I am way over the line? Wow.

What do you think coaching is?

Do you think that NFL players are naturally motivated to practice?

I teach school---and I can say 100% most of what I do with young people involves finding the right buttons to press in trying to bring out the best in them.

Do you think students are naturally motivated to go to school? Were you?

You haven't answered my question---can you name me a time and a case where another NFL head coach went public with a derogatory nickname of a 1st round draft pick?
.

I answered it with evidence of one of the best head coaches of all time, Bill Parcells, who did that exact thing to rookie first rounder Terry Glenn and it not only spurred the player onto a 1100 yard/6 TD season, but Parcells took his team to a Super Bowl the same exact season.

But go ahead and completely ignore the above AGAIN.

 

[Cardiac]

Bill Parcells referred to Terry Glenn as HER/SHE as a rookie... and then he went out and had a 1100 yard/6 TD season helping that team get to the Super Bowl.

Thanks Cheese, I couldn't remember the WR's name.

So Bill Parcells who has won multiple Super Bowls has chided a rookie publicly and it worked out.

I agree with K9 that this wasn't the first tactic that BA used to motivate DJ and I'll say won't be his last.

Lombardi was known for riding players incredibly hard to get the best out of them.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that BA has a very good grasp on this players psyches and how to motivate each and every one of them.

 

[Mitch]

Good call, cheese---I hadn't remembered that. Imagine if an NFL coach called a player "she" today. Times have changed quite a bit from the Parcells days, especially now that there is a female coach and referee.

I too think as K9 pointed out that BA is trying all sorts of motivational tactics---and I trust that eventually he will find the right ones. And if we were having a Johnnie Walker with him right now, I bet he would say he was wrong to go public with "Knee Deep."

You don't get to be NFL Coach of the Year twice in three years if you aren't pressing a whole lot of right buttons.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Good call, cheese---I hadn't remembered that. Imagine if an NFL coach called a player "she" today. Times have changed quite a bit from the Parcells days, especially now that there is a female coach and referee.

I too think as K9 pointed out that BA is trying all sorts of motivational tactics---and I trust that eventually he will find the right ones. And if we were having a Johnnie Walker with him right now, I bet he would say he was wrong to go public with "Knee Deep."

You don't get to be NFL Coach of the Year twice in three years if you aren't pressing a whole lot of right buttons.

i think that's the point. The guy has shown himself to be an incredible motivator of men for the last three seasons. Hell, even when we were down to our 3rd string QB last season, with pretty much zero hope whatsoever going up against the defending Super Bowl Champs last year in the infamous SNF game, he STILL had that team believing enough to keep that ragtag group of guys within striking distance going into the 4th Q down only 14-6 (no one remembers that because of how thoroughly crushed we got in the 4th). If Arians is calling out a guy in the press at this point, I'm believing he's doing it for a very good reason.

 

[82CardsGrad]

I am way over the line? Wow.

What do you think coaching is?

Do you think that NFL players are naturally motivated to practice?

I teach school---and I can say 100% most of what I do with young people involves finding the right buttons to press in trying to bring out the best in them.

Do you think students are naturally motivated to go to school? Were you?

You haven't answered my question---can you name me a time and a case where another NFL head coach went public with a derogatory nickname of a 1st round draft pick?

One would think that big tough football players should be able to handle such things---but such things can become stigmas to the point where the player starts believing it himself.

I am not saying I am convinced that Humphries is at that point---but I do find it agonizing to know that we drafted a tackle in the first round this year---we are in desperate need of a tackle---and that player is behind Bradley Sowell (who has been getting tooled in the games) and Earl Watford (who hadn't even played tackle until this off-season) on our current depth chart.

That said player has been called out publicly in a derogatory and embarrassing manner. His play has not noticeably improved---the coach is now saying he's shown improvement over the past ten days because the coach is saving face and he is also acting on his mantra of coaching em hard and then hugging them later.

Humphries best game was PS game 1---worse in PS game 2 and absolute worst in PS game 3. There is not tangible evidence in these games to suggest that he has improved, in fact, quite the opposite.

You're comparing school-aged kids to a pro athlete who is getting paid millions to do a job? Sorry...
Secondly, yes - coaches, like teachers, need to find those "buttons" to push. And, pardon me if I believe that BA seems to have a very strong knack for finding and pushing the right buttons.
Third - he didn't call Hump "fat", or "slow", or "weak", or a "sissy"... He called him knee-deep, which means he isn't giving the type of effort the coaches believe he should be giving. That is worthy of your over-the-top concern for Hump's psyche?? Seriously??

 

[Cardiac]

http://arizonasports.com/story/3559...-is-realizing-what-pro-football-is-all-about/

So here is the latest info/interview about DJ. It could be spin but more likely it's just the news unfolding naturally.

 

[Mitch]

You're comparing school-aged kids to a pro athlete who is getting paid millions to do a job? Sorry...
Secondly, yes - coaches, like teachers, need to find those "buttons" to push. And, pardon me if I believe that BA seems to have a very strong knack for finding and pushing the right buttons.
Third - he didn't call Hump "fat", or "slow", or "weak", or a "sissy"... He called him knee-deep, which means he isn't giving the type of effort the coaches believe he should be giving. That is worthy of your over-the-top concern for Hump's psyche?? Seriously??

Would you give me any iota respect if I told you that I taught and coached an AL MVP (Mo Vaughn---Red Sox) a Norris Trophy and Conn Smythe Award Winner who is a first-ballot NHL Hall of Famer (Brian Leech---NY Rangers) and an 8 year FB in the NFL who started for the Colts, Panthers and 49ers (Chris Hetherington)?

Do you think that little of me and my background to suggest i wouldn't have a clue as to what it is like to motivate a young pro athlete?

I can say one thing with certainty---there are lines that any coach cannot and should not cross---EVER. And one of them is using a derogatory term in public to describe a player.

Just because Humphries is a young pro making millions, doesn't give a coach free license to cross that line.

I am have been as big a fan of Arians as anyone on this board and I still am. But, he screwed up this time---even if Humphries was playing well by now, I would say the exact same thing. It was wrong, and I bet you BA wishes in retrospect that he had handled it differently.

 

[Russ Smith]

I am way over the line? Wow.

What do you think coaching is?

Do you think that NFL players are naturally motivated to practice?

I teach school---and I can say 100% most of what I do with young people involves finding the right buttons to press in trying to bring out the best in them.

Do you think students are naturally motivated to go to school? Were you?

You haven't answered my question---can you name me a time and a case where another NFL head coach went public with a derogatory nickname of a 1st round draft pick?

One would think that big tough football players should be able to handle such things---but such things can become stigmas to the point where the player starts believing it himself.

I am not saying I am convinced that Humphries is at that point---but I do find it agonizing to know that we drafted a tackle in the first round this year---we are in desperate need of a tackle---and that player is behind Bradley Sowell (who has been getting tooled in the games) and Earl Watford (who hadn't even played tackle until this off-season) on our current depth chart.

That said player has been called out publicly in a derogatory and embarrassing manner. His play has not noticeably improved---the coach is now saying he's shown improvement over the past ten days because the coach is saving face and he is also acting on his mantra of coaching em hard and then hugging them later.

Humphries best game was PS game 1---worse in PS game 2 and absolute worst in PS game 3. There is not tangible evidence in these games to suggest that he has improved, in fact, quite the opposite.

DJ Humphries isn't a HS English student Mitch, he's an NFL first round pick. He's several years older than the kids you teach and coached, and he's light years better, he's been a pampered elite prospect since he was a freshman in HS. He's played major college football.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Would you give me any iota respect if I told you that I taught and coached an AL MVP (Mo Vaughn---Red Sox) a Norris Trophy and Conn Smythe Award Winner who is headed to the NHL Hall of Fame (Brian Leech---NY Rangers) and an 8 year FB in the NFL who started for the Colts, Panthers and 49ers (Chris Hetherington)?

Do you think that little of me and my background to suggest i wouldn't have a clue as to what it is like to motivate a young pro athlete?

Considering you never motivated a PROFESSIONAL athlete making MILLIONS and motivated kids making NOTHING, whether they went on to become professionals.... no.

And now you're demanding respect? Give me a break Mitch.

I can say one thing with certainty---there are lines that any coach cannot and should not cross---EVER. And one of them is using a derogatory term in public to describe a player.

this is laughable. You can't saying ANYTHING with certainty regarding coaching professional athletes because you've never done so and to act like you're an authority on the subject because a couple kids you coached at some level not even approaching the pros is beyond hubris venturing into delusional territory.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Would you give me any iota respect if I told you that I taught and coached an AL MVP (Mo Vaughn---Red Sox) a Norris Trophy and Conn Smythe Award Winner who is a first-ballot NHL Hall of Famer (Brian Leech---NY Rangers) and an 8 year FB in the NFL who started for the Colts, Panthers and 49ers (Chris Hetherington)?

Do you think that little of me and my background to suggest i wouldn't have a clue as to what it is like to motivate a young pro athlete?

I can say one thing with certainty---there are lines that any coach cannot and should not cross---EVER. And one of them is using a derogatory term in public to describe a player.

Just because Humphries is a young pro making millions, doesn't give a coach free license to cross that line.

I am have been as big a fan of Arians as anyone on this board and I still am. But, he screwed up this time---even if Humphries was playing well by now, I would say the exact same thing. It was wrong, and I bet you BA wishes in retrospect that he had handled it differently.

Do you really want to play this game Mitch? Two guys that I played high school football with played in the NFL - one of whom is in the Hall of Fame. Both of whom I remain friends with to this day. I played college baseball, played in Cape Cod and in a semi-pro league in Stamford, CT.
You are grossly out of step here... You have somehow conflated a comparatively benign comment made by a proven NFL coach - ONCE - into something that is slanderous, believing one of the better motivators at the NFL Head Coach level "crossed the line". And you couldn't be more wrong.

I respect your coaching past. But your style in no way, shape or form invalidates the style used by BA. You have severely overreacted here, believing that BA is responsible for Hump's poor camp performance... I'm actually surprised to see your position here as it is SO far from reality.

And if anything, my guess is that Hump's improved play and approach to his PROFESSION will be viewed as a direct result of BA's motivational tactics. Which included - in this case - referring to Hump as "Knee-Deep."

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I respectfully disagree with you about the zero risk.

Think about this---this is how bad this has become---we aren't even playing the starters Thursday, and Humphries isn't even in the starting lineup---he is behind Bradley Sowell and Earl Watford.

How many of you thought that was even remotely possible on Draft Night?

Better yet, give me an example of an NFL head coach who has gone public with an embarrassing nickname for a 1st round draft pick?

BA has his warts---and one of them is that at times his mouth gets the better of him.

Sure I get the whole ride their asses and then hug em later.

But, to resort to this type of public tactic is classless and so far it has backfired at a time when we desperately need a tackle.

Give me a break "it's backfired." I see a lazy unfocused player who remains unfocused. You make it sound like we had a great tackle who has shriveled under Arians "onslaught" of "negativity." For cripes sake he has a derogatory nickname for a grown lazy-ass man. It's football. Time to grow up baby millionaire.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I am way over the line? Wow.

What do you think coaching is?

Do you think that NFL players are naturally motivated to practice?

I teach school---and I can say 100% most of what I do with young people involves finding the right buttons to press in trying to bring out the best in them.

Do you think students are naturally motivated to go to school? Were you?

You haven't answered my question---can you name me a time and a case where another NFL head coach went public with a derogatory nickname of a 1st round draft pick?

One would think that big tough football players should be able to handle such things---but such things can become stigmas to the point where the player starts believing it himself.

I am not saying I am convinced that Humphries is at that point---but I do find it agonizing to know that we drafted a tackle in the first round this year---we are in desperate need of a tackle---and that player is behind Bradley Sowell (who has been getting tooled in the games) and Earl Watford (who hadn't even played tackle until this off-season) on our current depth chart.

That said player has been called out publicly in a derogatory and embarrassing manner. His play has not noticeably improved---the coach is now saying he's shown improvement over the past ten days because the coach is saving face and he is also acting on his mantra of coaching em hard and then hugging them later.

Humphries best game was PS game 1---worse in PS game 2 and absolute worst in PS game 3. There is not tangible evidence in these games to suggest that he has improved, in fact, quite the opposite.

Football is a tough grinding mentally and challenging game and career. If he's not mentally tough enough to handle "knee deep" he certainly won't be tough enough to handle the fourth quarter of JJ Watt coming at him in the middle of the season when he's tired and worn down. He can't push through this, forget it.

 

[snowthedirtbub]

I'm just gonna leave this here....

“I’m definitely trying to work myself hard every day, push myself to the point where I’m super tired in practice and then by the time the game gets here, I’ve made it easier on myself,” Humphries said. “I thought I was working hard before, but I was told I wasn’t so I had to step it up.”

- DJ Humphries

“The last 10 days, I think he’s realizing what pro football is all about,” Arians said.

Source: http://www.azcentral.com/story/spor...-bruce-arians-compliments-humphries/71538172/