Back to the Drawing Board...

[JeffGollin]

Are we Cardinal fans premature in pushing the panic button?

Uhhh.....No!

But the FO, coaches, players and fans can all freak out, make changes willy-nilly, grasp at straws and blow up the football team. Or Wiz can take a step back, survey the wreckage and then use his engineering backround to set the most effective course going forward.

This will mean taking a fresh look at his personnel & adapting his game planning and strategies to achieve maximum benefit both short and long term.

It no doubt will mean a lot of soul searching over what's realistic (i.e. do we have a realistic shot at making the playoffs with the guys we have? If not, should we trim our sails and try to do the best we can with the guys we've got - which, in turn could mean (a) Hall as game manager and (b) 40 - 50 running plays a game? Or do we give it a few more games to see where we are in a weak division before making any drastic changes?

All I know is that my gut tells me that we're trying to do unrealistic things with the guys we've got on our roster and it not only is causing us to lose/it's causing us to lose big and lose ugly.

I guess I'm fast reaching the conclusion that, should we get to a point in the season where reaching the playoffs seems unlikely, maybe it will be time for Wiz to make a sharp tack toward changing the personality of this team to a less flashy and more conservative one.

 

[BW52]

Jeff
I ask if maybe the Cards should consider dropping the 3-4 and going back to the 4-3.I realize it would be a stretch for some personel because Cards are set up for 3-4.There is no pass rush at all now and dollars Dockett and Campbell need to at least pressure the passer.Why not Dockett and Campbell at DE and Watson and Williams at DT with Branch and Robinson rotating and Iwebema also providing depth.

 

[JeffGollin]

Heck! Anything is worth considering but from my vantage point (admittedly not being a DC) I like the depth and talent of our D-line personnel with D-Dock and Calais on the outside, Watson backed by Williams at NT with Branch, Robinson and Iwebema as backups. (I think a bigger issue is whether they're being used properly).

I think our biggest problem personnel-wise is at LB I like DWash and Lenon inside, but DWash is still learning and prone to mistakes. I'm less forgiving of our two outside guys (Joey P and Haggans) - In a 3-4, you expect your outside guys to be outstanding athletic playmakers and we haven't seen much of that. Plus our backup depth at LB is mediocre at best.

But even more problematic is the way all 4 starting LB's are playing the schemes -not filling the right gaps, biting on run-fakes and in some cases, running themselves out of plays.

I suspect this is more a function of bad coaching than the personnel itself, but like I said earlier, I'm no DC/just a fan.

 

[LarryStalling]

I still don't understand the offensive line. Why on earth are there so many of them standing around during and after a running play. That is truly absurd. On pass protection, they all look like they are hand fighting not pass blocking.

What is the offensive line doing? It is no wonder that their play has been so pathetic.

If you fix the OL play you will fix a bunch of the whole teams problems because you will help keep the defense off the field so much.

 

[CaptTurbo]

just like on defense I feel we have the talent on the oline just not the coaching.

 

[Catfish]

Jeff
I ask if maybe the Cards should consider dropping the 3-4 and going back to the 4-3.I realize it would be a stretch for some personel because Cards are set up for 3-4.There is no pass rush at all now and dollars Dockett and Campbell need to at least pressure the passer.Why not Dockett and Campbell at DE and Watson and Williams at DT with Branch and Robinson rotating and Iwebema also providing depth.

Dropping the 3-4 at this point would be premature-----the obvious change that is needed is to replace Bryan Robinson at the nose tackle position. The 3-4 works, (only when it has a force in the middle), and Robinson has nothing left in his tank. (He knew this, which is why he was going to retire this spring). It was ok for Whiz to bring him back to mentor Dan Williams, (BUT NOT AS A PLAYER). He can do this as a position coach for far less money, and we would have a badly needed roster spot open.

We should be starting Watson at the nose, and relieving him with Williams until Williams gains the knowlege and stamina needed to start. Alan Branch can be used at the nose in an emergency if either Williams or Watson is injured. (THIS ONE MOVE WOULD GO FARTHER TOWARD FIXING OUR PROBLEMS THAN ANY OTHER SIGLE MOVE WE COULD MAKE, INCLUDING CHANGING THE QB AT THIS TIME).

 

[kerouac9]

Jeff
I ask if maybe the Cards should consider dropping the 3-4 and going back to the 4-3.I realize it would be a stretch for some personel because Cards are set up for 3-4.There is no pass rush at all now and dollars Dockett and Campbell need to at least pressure the passer.Why not Dockett and Campbell at DE and Watson and Williams at DT with Branch and Robinson rotating and Iwebema also providing depth.

Because Dockett can beat OGs in the pass rush, but he's not going to beat even the worst OT in the NFL.

You can't run the 4-3 without a two-way defensive end who can bull rush and speed rush opposing LTs, and we don't have one right now.

The problem with the pass rush is that Joey Porter can't beat the Mario Henderson's of the NFL, and so they have four guys blocking our other three, and Calais Campbell isn't beatin his man, either. We could use our 2009 second-round pick to help develop his game, but we decided we'd rather keep A.J. Jefferson on the 53 man roster and pick up another free agent who never appeared in a game.

 

[THESMEL]

KTAR Monday with whiz, Are we going to run more, Thats an option but we need to spread the field and throw like our hair is on fire again! Whiz is calling 12 run plays and 40+ passess again and again and again.

Laughed it off the last 3 years, I want to remind anybody that bothered to watch the games, That our Wins in 08 before we blew up in the 2nd half featured Edge running the ball. Our playoff wins, not the SB loss featured Edge Running the ball!

Our losses featured THT and the pass game! period. The defense is wore out, and sucks anyway except in spurts and has. continues and I see no reason for it to change.

winning covers up alot of stench, but I have noticed and stuck by my NFL fan experience. We need to feature Beanie FEED THE BEAN and We'll go to the playoffs and make some noise even with Whiz's choice as QB. IN SPITE OF COACH WHISENHUNT!

 

[Buckybird]

just like on defense I feel we have the talent on the oline just not the coaching.

the problem on the Oline is that we dont have 1 legit OT in the mix...all guards & 2 centers. There's your problem!!!

 

[Buckybird]

The Cards have some very good players & talent scattered around the roster. The problem...we have no QB, no OT's & no edge rushers!!! Those are the 3 most important positions on an NFL roster & there my friends is the major problem with todays team & future Redbird teams.

 

[ajcardfan]

The Cards have some very good players & talent scattered around the roster. The problem...we have no QB, no OT's & no edge rushers!!! Those are the 3 most important positions on an NFL roster & there my friends is the major problem with todays team & future Redbird teams.

Yep, those are priority positions and we tried to band aid them. It hasn't worked.

 

[JeffGollin]

Since Russ and Wiz have been here, there's been a disconnect between their O-line run-blocking philosophy (road grader) and what we see on the field (lots of traps, counters, stretch-zone stuff - and too many guys standing around after the play).

With Russ as our line coach, it's like making a pickup truck guy drive a Miata.

Are we doing all that finesse stuff simply because we don't have physical enough guys throughout the O-line? If so, why hasn't there been a greater effort made to bring more of those kinds of guys in here?

Just wondering.

 

[cardpa]

Are we Cardinal fans premature in pushing the panic button?

Uhhh.....No!

But the FO, coaches, players and fans can all freak out, make changes willy-nilly, grasp at straws and blow up the football team. Or Wiz can take a step back, survey the wreckage and then use his engineering backround to set the most effective course going forward.

This will mean taking a fresh look at his personnel & adapting his game planning and strategies to achieve maximum benefit both short and long term.

It no doubt will mean a lot of soul searching over what's realistic (i.e. do we have a realistic shot at making the playoffs with the guys we have? If not, should we trim our sails and try to do the best we can with the guys we've got - which, in turn could mean (a) Hall as game manager and (b) 40 - 50 running plays a game? Or do we give it a few more games to see where we are in a weak division before making any drastic changes?

All I know is that my gut tells me that we're trying to do unrealistic things with the guys we've got on our roster and it not only is causing us to lose/it's causing us to lose big and lose ugly.


I guess I'm fast reaching the conclusion that, should we get to a point in the season where reaching the playoffs seems unlikely, maybe it will be time for Wiz to make a sharp tack toward changing the personality of this team to a less flashy and more conservative one.

I have been feeling and talking about the same thing. The talent and abilities of the players is not fitting into the offensive and defensive schemes the coaches are trying to run. Now I am only a high school soccer coach but even I know I fit the system of play to the talent I have at hand, not the other way around. If I have many talented defenders I would play a 4-5-1 and counterattack, if I have more talent in the midfield and up front I would play a 3-4-3 and play more possession and high pressure defense.

 

[Lomax to Green 84]

Since Russ and Wiz have been here, there's been a disconnect between their O-line run-blocking philosophy (road grader) and what we see on the field (lots of traps, counters, stretch-zone stuff - and too many guys standing around after the play).

With Russ as our line coach, it's like making a pickup truck guy drive a Miata.

Are we doing all that finesse stuff simply because we don't have physical enough guys throughout the O-line? If so, why hasn't there been a greater effort made to bring more of those kinds of guys in here?

Just wondering.

Jeff, I agree that our o-line is built for "roadgrading", but I think the Pittsburgh power running game does include a bunch of traps, pulling plays, and counters. The staple running play for years in Pittsburgh was the counter and Jerome Bettis was the beneficiary.

 

[TJ]

Since Russ and Wiz have been here, there's been a disconnect between their O-line run-blocking philosophy (road grader) and what we see on the field (lots of traps, counters, stretch-zone stuff - and too many guys standing around after the play).

With Russ as our line coach, it's like making a pickup truck guy drive a Miata.

Are we doing all that finesse stuff simply because we don't have physical enough guys throughout the O-line? If so, why hasn't there been a greater effort made to bring more of those kinds of guys in here?

Just wondering.

Great observations Jeff

I dont get all of the man love for Grimm. The line his been soft especially in the run game as evidence by our rankings year in and year out. You'd think a guy like Beanie would average closer to 5 YPG and we'd have more 30+ yard runs. Hell, the team should take notes from all of the teams that pound the **** out of us every game, like Matthews and Tolbert last Sunday.

The cohesion in the line is gone with all of the changes they've made this season. Whats funny about that is they were both big on consistency and having the same personnel out there every game. The problem is they were relatively mediocre. Funny because when Gandy went out last year and had Bridges in there against Minnesota, he shut down the best pass rusher in the league, IMO.

 

[THESMEL]

huh

bucky we went to the SB with 3 of the 5, with an immobile qB, now Edge did ok on old legs when his number was actually called. which was not early or often enough. just like the bean. its on Whiz.

backing up to pass protect 70% of practice and game snaps, does not condition mind body or unit for plowing forward to run block. with the best QB or the worst in the NFL. We have seen both in the last 2 seasons.

Matt would have us competeing right now, maybe give the defense a breather every game or 2.

the problem on the Oline is that we dont have 1 legit OT in the mix...all guards & 2 centers. There's your problem!!!

 

[slanidrac16]

The strength of a 3 -4 is you make the opposing team figure out where the pressure is going to come from. It seems to this point the opposing offense is in our huddle and KNOW hwere the pressure is going to come from.
That comes down to coaching and tendencies.

We simply cannot turn into a running team because we can't afford to fall behind while we "wear" down the opposing defense. We still need to utilize Fitz and we need a good mix of run and pass ratio. In fairness to Max, we need to throw on first down half the time unless our running game is just blowing the defense out from the start.

With MAx, we need to throw when they think we will run and run when they think we will throw.

Some welll placed screens would do wonder to help Hall and this offense out.

 

[LarryStalling]

I hope they don't put Max in the shotgun this week. I thought he made some nifty ball fakes in the pre season and think that would serve him well. That is the reason why I think he should take all the snaps from undercenter this weekend.

 

[kerouac9]

I hope they don't put Max in the shotgun this week. I thought he made some nifty ball fakes in the pre season and think that would serve him well. That is the reason why I think he should take all the snaps from undercenter this weekend.

He'll never be able to see the field. Or throw over the OL.

There's a reason that all his passes at BYU were on rollouts.

 

[desertdawg]

He'll never be able to see the field. Or throw over the OL.

There's a reason that all his passes at BYU were on rollouts.

Your a funny guy, don't, like, exaggerate or anything.

 

[JeffGollin]

Jeff, I agree that our o-line is built for "roadgrading", but I think the Pittsburgh power running game does include a bunch of traps, pulling plays, and counters. The staple running play for years in Pittsburgh was the counter and Jerome Bettis was the beneficiary.

I get it.

But what I'm looking for in a power-running offense are situations where we know we're going to pound the rock, our opponent knows we're going to pound it up in there and there's nothing they can do to stop it.

I haven't seen that yet.

The only thing in our running repetoire that's working so far (but not consistently) is the outside run (either left or right) where THT or Beanie gains the edge (i.e. the outside shoulder of the inside seal-blocker) and breaks it straight up field.

Other than that, we don't have a running game.