Barbosa Blames "Flop Artist" Ginobli

[Shawty]

Simple solution. NBA players should send each other emails (not to Spurs) and ask the big guys or bench players to draw SERIOUS FRAGANT fouls on Manu. Give him a GOOD slap on the face when he drives in. I mean what's the worst it can happen? I am pretty sure Manu is hated among NBA players. I know Denver hates him and probably so is Mavs since Manu kneed Dirk in WCF that year and Dirk missed the last 4-5 games.

I think Manu is a good player but somebody just needs to SLAP him good. Bench players shall do it.

That's just my suggestion. Send him to injury room and see what other players are going through.

Yeah...that'll work. Let's slap him. Once again, it's been done. The slapper gets ejected and T'd. The slappee stays in the game and sinks two freebies. Who gets the short end of the stick, bud?

And Manu didn't "knee" Dirk. Either you're a Mav fan or never even saw the game. The SIDE of Manu's knee made contact with Dirk. Manu was even turned slightly when it happened. The two knees collided and Dirk happened to have landed awkwardly at the same moment they made contact. Neither player was concentratin' on where they were landin' or how, which happens in this game. Dirk's knee buckled and he collapsed. This happened to me a few weeks ago and I didn't blame the other player. Now I might have a torn meniscus.

 

[carrrnuttt]

Now I might have a torn meniscus.

<sarcasm>So you play with/against Manu then?</sarcasm>

Take a look at the picture in my sig. Tell me you are not annoyed by the exaggeration. If you're not, then you are indeed, a huge homer, and further discussions with you will be useless.

 

[kaesile]

If you watched Spur ball more often, you would see that Manu is a VERY unselfish player. He NEVER takes a possession or defensive stand off. NEVER takes a night off. He's clever, crafty and has a knack for makin' the impossible- that includes pinpoint passes. You would LUV to play with someone like him and you would luv to have him wear a Suns jersey. Trust me.

I actually do watch a lot of Spurs ball. I'm sad to say I have watched more Spurs ball than Suns ball recently because I live in Austin and don't get cable TV (the joys of being a student you know). In fact, the way I watched this last Suns vs Spurs game was on the local Spurs WB channel. Ironic, yeah.

But anyway, I am not taking any of that away from Ginobili. I KNOW he is extremely hard working. I know he's a great passer. I consider practically every facet of his game amazing to watch and exceptional - except for what I consider his excessive flopping. That's just a personal opinion - and like I said, I wouldn't like to watch him do that all the time if I were playing with him myself. I've played with quite a few number of people like that, and I never enjoyed myself that much. It's always fun when the person's on their game, but when they started with the other stuff, it just took away the spirit of all the rest. It's unnecessary in streetball, but I will concede that it can be useful (to a point) in NBA basketball with subjective referees. But when I'm watching the Suns, I can't see myself loving a player like that either.

I'm not tryin' to convince you that Barbs injury was not "ridiculous". You're a fan and there's no way I could change your mind. I respect that. However, I still disagree with your assessment of Manu's game and technique. It's NOT dangerous and it's well within the rules of the game.

Agree to disagree, of course. I think right now we're just down to arguing personal philosophies on basketball, and that's fine. It's how debates should end, with both people getting a better idea of where the other's coming from.

 

[Shawty]

<sarcasm>So you play with/against Manu then?</sarcasm>

Take a look at the picture in my sig. Tell me you are not annoyed by the exaggeration. If you're not, then you are indeed, a huge homer, and further discussions with you will be useless.

Do as you wish.

 

[Shawty]

But anyway, I am not taking any of that away from Ginobili. I KNOW he is extremely hard working. I know he's a great passer. I consider practically every facet of his game amazing to watch and exceptional - except for what I consider his excessive flopping. That's just a personal opinion - and like I said, I wouldn't like to watch him do that all the time if I were playing with him myself. I've played with quite a few number of people like that, and I never enjoyed myself that much. It's always fun when the person's on their game, but when they started with the other stuff, it just took away the spirit of all the rest. It's unnecessary in streetball, but I will concede that it can be useful (to a point) in NBA basketball with subjective referees. But when I'm watching the Suns, I can't see myself loving a player like that either.

Since you've watched Spur ball for a while, you'll be able to attest to this. The technique that Manu uses was ACQUIRED. He didn't start doin' it till early last season. (Edit-Oops! Probably moreso early 2003-2004 season.) Manu used that technique to draw fouls (especially with the new rule on handcheckin' the offensive player) and its reaped huge dividends. That adds to the fact that he's a smart player. The guy played the game accordin' to Suns fans' "liking" durin' his first year.

Manu's game is also adaptable. He plays accordin' to his environment. He's learned how to use the riles of the league to his advantage. Since that technique is acquired and wasn't ALWAYS a part of his game, you can rest assured that it would translate fine into streetball terms. He doesn't naturally "flail", he only uses that technique to get refs to notice any contact that impedes his offensive movement or defensive positionin’.

Agree to disagree, of course. I think right now we're just down to arguing personal philosophies on basketball, and that's fine. It's how debates should end, with both people getting a better idea of where the other's coming from.

True.

 

[kaesile]

Since that technique is acquired and wasn't ALWAYS a part of his game, you can rest assured that it would translate fine into streetball terms. He doesn't naturally "flail", he only uses that technique to get refs to notice any contact that impedes his offensive movement or defensive positionin’.

No, that's not what I meant. I just meant that in streetball, you generally call your own fouls, and at the very least there are no refs, so there's no point in overexaggerating contact. There would be no point for Ginobili to play the same style (in regards to defense/exaggerating contact) if he played streetball. His normal defense is fine, it's just the excessive contact and falling that wouldn't work. Of course, the rest of his game would translate quite well.

Not to revisit the point, but I think the term I can really agree with is 'unnatural flail,' euphemism though it may be. Since it's not a natural part of Ginobili's game, that's why I don't like it. It can definitely be a strategic strength though.

 

[Shawty]

No, that's not what I meant. I just meant that in streetball, you generally call your own fouls, and at the very least there are no refs, so there's no point in overexaggerating contact. There would be no point for Ginobili to play the same style (in regards to defense/exaggerating contact) if he played streetball. His normal defense is fine, it's just the excessive contact and falling that wouldn't work. Of course, the rest of his game would translate quite well.

Not to revisit the point, but I think the term I can really agree with is 'unnatural flail,' euphemism though it may be. Since it's not a natural part of Ginobili's game, that's why I don't like it. It can definitely be a strategic strength though.

Very true. Understood.

 

[Chaz]

In general I have no problem with drawing a charge by falling down on contact or even exaggerating contact on offense to draw a wistle.

However, when players throw themselves to the floor when they are battling for position, well, that is just stupid.

 

[greensborohill]

Manu is just flat out unnecessary. It's like George Karl said last year "I don't know what to call it, but it isn't basketball." He's hurt more than just LB (I won't stae the one of the other players he's hurt as to keep from getting bashed by Suns fans). He really has no regard for others & in my eyes is equal parts dirty & wreckless.

 

[Shawty]

Manu is just flat out unnecessary. It's like George Karl said last year "I don't know what to call it, but it isn't basketball." He's hurt more than just LB (I won't stae the one of the other players he's hurt as to keep from getting bashed by Suns fans). He really has no regard for others & in my eyes is equal parts dirty & wreckless.

Of course, you would say that. Would the player you're referrin' to be the one you have a huge poster of in your sig? Hmmm...

I already addressed that issue. If you would go back through other George Karl comments (of course, Mav fans never do that) you will find that George Karl basically retracted thsoe statements in a roundabout way.

P.S.- Mav fans reflect the personality of their owner. You can figure that one out.

 

[NugzFan]

sorry about barbosa but at least more and more people are becoming aware of stupid ginobili's flopping - it needs to stop. i thought refs were gonna crack down on flopping more this season?!

 

[Shawty]

sorry about barbosa but at least more and more people are becoming aware of stupid ginobili's flopping - it needs to stop. i thought refs were gonna crack down on flopping more this season?!

A Nugget fan tryin' to empathize. THIS SHOULD BE GOOD. This THREAD GETS FUNNIER BY THE MINUTE. WHERE ELSE CAN YOU FIND A NUGGET FAN AND MAV FAN DWELLIN' TOGETHER HARMONIOUSLY TO MALIGN MANU? This is the greatest forum in cyberspace!

 

[greensborohill]

A Nugget fan tryin' to empathize. THIS SHOULD BE GOOD. This THREAD GETS FUNNIER BY THE MINUTE. WHERE ELSE CAN YOU FIND A NUGGET FAN AND MAV FAN DWELLIN' TOGETHER HARMONIOUSLY TO MALIGN MANU? This is the greatest forum in cyberspace!

Don't forget the Suns fans that hate that flopping ******. .

 

[Shawty]

Don't forget the Suns fans that hate that flopping ******. .

Many of them acknowledged that they luv his game but hate the technique he uses. It's been established. I understand yours is strictly on bias alone since judgin' by your posts I haven't seen too much knowledge about the actual game of basketball. However, i can tell you that Dirk's game is not that far off from Manu's in the technique used. If you knew anything about the game and could take your blue-green glasses off for a second, you'd know that. I'm sure every Suns fan in here knows about Dirk's OVEREXAGGERATION of contact. He's king of the PFs in that department.

 

[sunsfn]

THis arguement has gone on for 8 PAGES!

Unblievable!

 

[boisesuns]

I'm sure every Suns fan in here knows about Dirk's OVEREXAGGERATION of contact. He's king of the PFs in that department.

So for the all flopping team, we still need to fill out some more slots:

G:
SG: Manu
SF:
F: Drik
C:

Suggestions?

 

[Shawty]

So for the all flopping team, we still need to fill out some more slots:

G:
SG: Manu
SF:
F: Drik
C:

Suggestions?

Derek Fisher at guard. Now that is a TRUE flopper.

 

[jbeecham]

G: Allen Iverson
SG: Manu
SF: Peja
F: Dirk
C: Vlade Divac (retired)

 

[boisesuns]

G: Allen Iverson
SG: Manu
SF: Peja
F: Dirk
C: Vlade Divac (retired)

Good choices there, Vlade is like the Godfather of Flop.
Or is it the flopfather?

 

[greensborohill]

Many of them acknowledged that they luv his game but hate the technique he uses.

I never said anything about his game, he's a good player so why even mention that, we all know Manu is a good player. As far as Dirk goes I never said he didn't flop, but my issue isn't with exaggeration which is what Dirk and many others do in order to emphasis the fact that they did come into contact w/ an opposing player. It's w/ OVEREXAGGERATION which is what Manu does. And he does it at the expense of others safety. As much of a great athlete as he is, he shouldn't have to resort to such tactics. And don't question my basketball knowledge, just b/c it isn't displayed here in the 70+ posts I've made (and I'll admit I haven't displayed it here). You can't honestly tell me that Manu doesn't OVEREXAGGERATE where as others just emphasis the fact that there was contact on the play.

 

[greensborohill]

G: Allen Iverson
SG: Manu
SF: Peja
F: Dirk
C: Vlade Divac (retired)

I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU WOULD EVEN THINK OF PUTTING DIRK AS THE MOST FLOPPING PF!!!

;p

Does Iverson really belong on that list?

 

[jbeecham]

I'm not really sure about Peja, but I couldn't think of any other SF who really flops a lot.......maybe Van Horn?

Iverson is on the ground more than any other PG in the league. Some of it is legit, but most of it is overexxageration of contact and he does it on offense and defense.

 

[scoutmasterdave]

If we're going to include Divac, you have to put John Stockton at PG - he was the master of all things flop-related.

 

[jbeecham]

If we're going to include Divac, you have to put John Stockton at PG - he was the master of all things flop-related.

good point........we may have to make an all-time list and a current NBA list

 

[Shawty]

You can't honestly tell me that Manu doesn't OVEREXAGGERATE where as others just emphasis the fact that there was contact on the play.

Not only did I NOT deny he overexaggerates contact but I directly linked his tactics to Dirk. If you do not believe that Dirk does it then YOU are misguided. Dirk will OFTENTIMES slide across the floor on contact, flail, throw himself in the direction of the contact, etc. Whether or not this is at the expense of others is in the eye of the beholder. Yes, I've seen Dirk slide across the floor! Could he have hurt someone? Perhaps. Know what the chances are of that happenin'? Slim. But I didn't cry about it. He's simply doin' the smart thing and usin' the refs. Do I hate to see it? Yes. When I'm pullin' for the opposition (which is 99% of the time when the Mavs are playin'). I REPEAT Manu and Dirk have similar techniques in this area. Could be the European play. Both played in Europe and if you've ever watched them play ball there is a lotta' OVEREXAGGERATION (In Suns fans' opinion: Floppin').