Bartel last night

[AzStevenCal]

Richard Bartel is a better QB than Kevin Kolb. Bartel played at Tarelton State and it has simply taken him some time to adjust to the NFL, from small school college football, just like it did Andre Roberts, Greg Toler, and DRC, AND finally get an opportunity. He's the next Trent Green.

Kolb just runs around like a scared kid. As many feared we were sold a bill of goods by the Eagles.

Sorry Richard you have to take one for the team.

I think the coaches see this also. Clearly, in this shortened offseason, it was in our best interest to play our better players longer in the 4th preseason game than usual. It was obvious to me that Kolb's inability to move the ball forced Whiz to bench him and bring in Bartel to get some reps with most of the starters (had to rest Fitz of course). Because of what it cost us, we'll probably enter the season with Kolb under center but it's apparent that Bartel will displace him before long. That is, unless Croyle passes them both by.

Steve

 

[Russ Smith]

Bartel was better than Quinn or Tebow.

Quinn was bad, missed open guys, forced balls into coverage. I never bought him in college but he's worse than I expected.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Quinn was bad, missed open guys, forced balls into coverage. I never bought him in college but he's worse than I expected.

Yeah, he didn't have many weapons around him but his decision making is very suspect. I don't see how they can go into the season with either of those guys as their backup.

Steve

 

[Duckjake]

I think the coaches see this also. Clearly, in this shortened offseason, it was in our best interest to play our better players longer in the 4th preseason game than usual. It was obvious to me that Kolb's inability to move the ball forced Whiz to bench him and bring in Bartel to get some reps with most of the starters (had to rest Fitz of course). Because of what it cost us, we'll probably enter the season with Kolb under center but it's apparent that Bartel will displace him before long. That is, unless Croyle passes them both by.

Steve

Exactly. Just like last year with benching Skelton for Bartel in week 17. Glad to see CKW finally figuring out the QB position.

 

[Stout]

Bartel did play well last night and should be a solid #3 heading into the season.

 

[THESMEL]

appreciate

I understand your view point, Fitz is not theory He is fact on the field, A little ways away from being the Cards all time leading Receiver in every major category. He has already earned Ring of honor consideration
and he is still in his prime. I have him graded as an elite 97 out of 100 with upside. He is actually way faster than he was as a rookie! A premium WR skill set.

The Bean is elite in all 3 RB, It would take 3 rb's to replace what he has done on the field for the Cardinals, Power, traffic and open field. I'm laying off of blaming Whiz for his late in a 4th Preseason game injury last year. but THT should not have been starting, THT's current preseason success expresses just how stupid our last in NFL rushing attempts, system and philosphy flaws were these last 3 years.

Whiz's half time balance statement excited me. We ran more than we passed! and that helped the topic of this thread, Bartel. I just want to say that I think that Beanie at 23 years old can threaten 2000 yards a year on 400 carries for 4 of the next 5 years.

I would also propose that If Fitz went down with an injury, we could survive for a stretch. The RB is the engine on offense, Kolb wants to run, Whiz says he wants to be balanced. I hope, with all my fanatic.

Their few in history that have the capability to do what Beanie is about to do. Chris Johnson Can't do it, He can do 1 or 2 phases of it. like Dickerson, Campbell, Walker could, But there has not been as complete a RB skill set
sinceJim Brown and Leroy Kelly.

Those slips Beanie is having with elite vision, will turn on a dime with elite large man speed and still have the elite power to scare the hell out of 2-3 elite defense players at every position. He's 23!

Nothing bad on Fitz, PP, or Kolb. But they can't do what the Bean can for the 2011 Arizona Cardinals. But he can't do it without them.

To suggest that Beanie Wells and Matt Leinart are in the same stratosphere with Larry Fitzgerald in terms of talent at their position is just not a realistic assessment. At some point you need to trust what guys are showing you on the NFL field and not what they looked like coming out of college! Haven't seen any Texans games but Leinart's stats have looked decent in the box score, and hoping the best for Beanie and think he'll have a good season - but I really think his ceiling is around top 15/middle of the road for starting RB in the league. They both aren't even close to Fitz, but I'm at least holding out hope Beanie can go off this year.

I think Patrick Peterson is the only one on the roster with enough raw physical talent to even approach Fitz in terms of talent at their position -- but he clearly has a ways to go. I think Kolb has a high ceiling also, but don't think he gets all the way onto the "short list of best QBs in the league" discussion, which Fitz clearly is at WR.

 

[Duckjake]

Bartel did play well last night and should be a solid #3 heading into the season.

#3 behind who?

Skelator needs at least another full offseason and more playing time in the pre season.

Great to have a guy as a backup at QB who completed 73% of his passes at 10 yards per attempt.

We're a lot better off at #2 QB than with AJ Feeley, Thaddeus Lewis, Charlie Whitehurt, or Josh McCown or Brian St.Pierre or Max Hall.

 

[JeffGollin]

My Take...

Kolb will be a good starter.

Bartel played almost good enough to start.

Croyle looked almost as good as Bartel.

Don't be shocked if Skelton winds up on IR and Croyle becomes our no. 3.

Note - I say "almost" about Bartel because he has developed the pattern of making one potentially game-changing faux pas per game and needs to clean this up.

 

[crisper57]

I understand your view point, Fitz is not theory He is fact on the field, A little ways away from being the Cards all time leading Receiver in every major category. He has already earned Ring of honor consideration
and he is still in his prime. I have him graded as an elite 97 out of 100 with upside. He is actually way faster than he was as a rookie! A premium WR skill set.

The Bean is elite in all 3 RB, It would take 3 rb's to replace what he has done on the field for the Cardinals, Power, traffic and open field. I'm laying off of blaming Whiz for his late in a 4th Preseason game injury last year. but THT should not have been starting, THT's current preseason success expresses just how stupid our last in NFL rushing attempts, system and philosphy flaws were these last 3 years.

Whiz's half time balance statement excited me. We ran more than we passed! and that helped the topic of this thread, Bartel. I just want to say that I think that Beanie at 23 years old can threaten 2000 yards a year on 400 carries for 4 of the next 5 years.

I would also propose that If Fitz went down with an injury, we could survive for a stretch. The RB is the engine on offense, Kolb wants to run, Whiz says he wants to be balanced. I hope, with all my fanatic.

Their few in history that have the capability to do what Beanie is about to do. Chris Johnson Can't do it, He can do 1 or 2 phases of it. like Dickerson, Campbell, Walker could, But there has not been as complete a RB skill set
sinceJim Brown and Leroy Kelly.

Those slips Beanie is having with elite vision, will turn on a dime with elite large man speed and still have the elite power to scare the hell out of 2-3 elite defense players at every position. He's 23!

Nothing bad on Fitz, PP, or Kolb. But they can't do what the Bean can for the 2011 Arizona Cardinals. But he can't do it without them.

There's one big problem with your theory. Opponents gameplan against Fitz. He's the guy they don't want beating them. Nobody is gameplanning Beanie.

If Fitz goes down, we are toast. Opponents will load 8 in the box and dare our other WR's to beat them. If Beanie goes down, I don't think their gameplan changes.

 

[THESMEL]

agree Fitz gets full attention, and committs defensive resources to the pass game, The Bean will make them pay for that more often than THT did. He breaks down the whole defense. Not just long runs but destructive runs. OFFENSIVE RUNS!

It works both ways, but let Beanie run over and punish the 2 DB's defending Fitz twice a half. and see they can Cardinal up against Fitz the play after it!

We have a nice situation In Arizona.

There's one big problem with your theory. Opponents gameplan against Fitz. He's the guy they don't want beating them. Nobody is gameplanning Beanie.

If Fitz goes down, we are toast. Opponents will load 8 in the box and dare our other WR's to beat them. If Beanie goes down, I don't think their gameplan changes.

 

[Ed Burmila]

Bingo Jeff.

Mr. Skelton is about to come down with a "very serious injury" requiring that he is placed on IR for the season....

 

[THESMEL]

I'm not buying into that. Skelton can throw Bartel and Croyal through a brick wall. Boys got skills. skelton would be picked up immmediatly if he were cut, Bartel and Croyle, not so much.

Kind of wonder if TE Skelton will see the practice squad?

Bingo Jeff.

Mr. Skelton is about to come down with a "very serious injury" requiring that he is placed on IR for the season....

 

[40yearfan]

I would have liked to have a look at Sorje this preseason, but it is like marrying an ugly woman, when she leaves, you aint out much.

 

[Zeno]

Kolb will be a good starter.

Bartel played almost good enough to start.

Croyle looked almost as good as Bartel.

Don't be shocked if Skelton winds up on IR and Croyle becomes our no. 3.

Note - I say "almost" about Bartel because he has developed the pattern of making one potentially game-changing faux pas per game and needs to clean this up.

I didn't think Croyle looked anything close to Bartel last night. Croyle has a similar skill set to DA, strong arm--little touch. I liked Croyle coming out of college but I like all the QBs we have on our depth chart before him.

 

[gmabel830]

The Bean is elite in all 3 RB, It would take 3 rb's to replace what he has done on the field for the Cardinals, Power, traffic and open field. I'm laying off of blaming Whiz for his late in a 4th Preseason game injury last year. but THT should not have been starting, THT's current preseason success expresses just how stupid our last in NFL rushing attempts, system and philosphy flaws were these last 3 years.

Whiz's half time balance statement excited me. We ran more than we passed! and that helped the topic of this thread, Bartel. I just want to say that I think that Beanie at 23 years old can threaten 2000 yards a year on 400 carries for 4 of the next 5 years.

Their few in history that have the capability to do what Beanie is about to do. Chris Johnson Can't do it, He can do 1 or 2 phases of it. like Dickerson, Campbell, Walker could, But there has not been as complete a RB skill set
sinceJim Brown and Leroy Kelly.

Those slips Beanie is having with elite vision, will turn on a dime with elite large man speed and still have the elite power to scare the hell out of 2-3 elite defense players at every position. He's 23!

Nothing bad on Fitz, PP, or Kolb. But they can't do what the Bean can for the 2011 Arizona Cardinals. But he can't do it without them.

I understand your view point, Fitz is not theory He is fact on the field, A little ways away from being the Cards all time leading Receiver in every major category. He has already earned Ring of honor consideration
and he is still in his prime. I have him graded as an elite 97 out of 100 with upside. He is actually way faster than he was as a rookie! A premium WR skill set.

The Bean is elite in all 3 RB, It would take 3 rb's to replace what he has done on the field for the Cardinals, Power, traffic and open field. I'm laying off of blaming Whiz for his late in a 4th Preseason game injury last year. but THT should not have been starting, THT's current preseason success expresses just how stupid our last in NFL rushing attempts, system and philosphy flaws were these last 3 years.

Whiz's half time balance statement excited me. We ran more than we passed! and that helped the topic of this thread, Bartel. I just want to say that I think that Beanie at 23 years old can threaten 2000 yards a year on 400 carries for 4 of the next 5 years.

I would also propose that If Fitz went down with an injury, we could survive for a stretch. The RB is the engine on offense, Kolb wants to run, Whiz says he wants to be balanced. I hope, with all my fanatic.

Their few in history that have the capability to do what Beanie is about to do. Chris Johnson Can't do it, He can do 1 or 2 phases of it. like Dickerson, Campbell, Walker could, But there has not been as complete a RB skill set
sinceJim Brown and Leroy Kelly.

Those slips Beanie is having with elite vision, will turn on a dime with elite large man speed and still have the elite power to scare the hell out of 2-3 elite defense players at every position. He's 23!

Nothing bad on Fitz, PP, or Kolb. But they can't do what the Bean can for the 2011 Arizona Cardinals. But he can't do it without them.

Well, we clearly have a difference of opinion on Beanie's upside. I don't think he's shown anything ont he field to garner comparisons to Dickerson, Campbell, Walker, etc. He was banged up last year and I'm certainly not ready to give up on him and hoping for the best out of him this year, but I thought that Ryan Williams would be our best running back this year and still think he's the long term answer if he heals without any long-term impacts from his injury.

I'm not seeing what you are seeing with Beanie in terms of being a complete back. I think he's a power back who can wear a team out up the middle and has the ability to get to the corner and get a few 10-15 yard runs a game. In terms of running in traffic, I see him not being able to make cuts effectively and falling down way too easily in traffic. Regarding Beanie in the open field, the last home run type run I remember Beanie making was against Michigan. Let's not ignore pass blocking as well, where he has a lot of work to go. I see Beanie as a guy who can wear a defense down throughout the course of a game and get around 80-100 yards a game on 20-25 carries (with an occassional breakout game of 120+). Over the course of a season those stats would certainly add up - just not sure if he's going to ever get that many carries in Whiz's system on an ongoing basis and his long-term durability is still to be seen. It's definitely a make or break year for Beanie - he's the clear #1 back and there won't be any room for debate or discussions about potential if he doesn't cut it this year.

I do definitely agree on establishing more of a balanced offense though, and think it has been a big problem ever since Whiz got here. I always think we'll favor the pass (as most teams do these days), but you need an effective running game to keep the defeense honest and really open up the passing game.

Finally, thanks for serving our country THESMEL!

 

[THESMEL]

understand

I just watch the highlights of the top RB's all time, and IMO Beanies top 10 plays in about 300 carries compares with their career highlight plays from 3000+.

Granted many are called back by penalty- preseason, and this staff had to limit him to 179 as a rookie because, Kurt Warner gets what Kurt warner wants after taking us to the SB for the first time.

but 14 carries for 91 yards 6.5 average was pretty impressive way to get a 3 score lead against GB in the playoffs. The only time he has been truely featured while in Arizona. GB had the 2nd best run defense!

Then we went to the pass like your hair is on fire, devil may die strategy. That is how we won the playoff games with Edge starting in 2008. WE ESTABLISHED THE RUN! and hit Fitz on play action trick plays!

Beanie asks for 7 carries to get warmed up and 20 carries a game, We have him in and out 1 play at a time. last year he was hurt, anything that could destroy a young RB's confidence has happened in 2 years.

But 292 carries for 1190 yards on a hurt leg, is better than weve seen since, Edge.

as evidenced by:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WellCh00/gamelog//

Well, we clearly have a difference of opinion on Beanie's upside. I don't think he's shown anything ont he field to garner comparisons to Dickerson, Campbell, Walker, etc. He was banged up last year and I'm certainly not ready to give up on him and hoping for the best out of him this year, but I thought that Ryan Williams would be our best running back this year and still think he's the long term answer if he heals without any long-term impacts from his injury.

I'm not seeing what you are seeing with Beanie in terms of being a complete back. I think he's a power back who can wear a team out up the middle and has the ability to get to the corner and get a few 10-15 yard runs a game. In terms of running in traffic, I see him not being able to make cuts effectively and falling down way too easily in traffic. Regarding Beanie in the open field, the last home run type run I remember Beanie making was against Michigan. Let's not ignore pass blocking as well, where he has a lot of work to go. I see Beanie as a guy who can wear a defense down throughout the course of a game and get around 80-100 yards a game on 20-25 carries (with an occassional breakout game of 120+). Over the course of a season those stats would certainly add up - just not sure if he's going to ever get that many carries in Whiz's system on an ongoing basis and his long-term durability is still to be seen. It's definitely a make or break year for Beanie - he's the clear #1 back and there won't be any room for debate or discussions about potential if he doesn't cut it this year.

I do definitely agree on establishing more of a balanced offense though, and think it has been a big problem ever since Whiz got here. I always think we'll favor the pass (as most teams do these days), but you need an effective running game to keep the defeense honest and really open up the passing game.

Finally, thanks for serving our country THESMEL!

 

[JCSunsfan]

Kolb will be a good starter.

Bartel played almost good enough to start.

Croyle looked almost as good as Bartel.

Don't be shocked if Skelton winds up on IR and Croyle becomes our no. 3.

Note - I say "almost" about Bartel because he has developed the pattern of making one potentially game-changing faux pas per game and needs to clean this up.

Didn't like much what I saw of Croyle last night. I like Bartel as #2 and Skelton as #3. Croyle can be #3 if someone is injured.

 

[Duckjake]

Didn't like much what I saw of Croyle last night. I like Bartel as #2 and Skelton as #3. Croyle can be #3 if someone is injured.

Vince Young got hurt last night so we're going to trade Bartel to Philly for DRC and a 2nd in next years draft.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Vince Young got hurt last night so we're going to trade Bartel to Philly for DRC and a 2nd in next years draft.

Maybe Philly has already coached the Arizona out of DRC. It would save Horton the trouble of having to teach the guy how to tackle. I'd gladly take him back but personally, with our need at safety, I'd rather just wait till Ed Reed gets cut and sign him.

Steve

 

[THESMEL]

Woo HOO

We can even throw in Cody Broil and Hax Maul

Vince Young got hurt last night so we're going to trade Bartel to Philly for DRC and a 2nd in next years draft.

 

[DemsMyBoys]

The Bean will be battling with Fitz for the most talented Cardinal at any position in 2011, Since Matt is gone.

I hope to God you are right because I am sick and tired of holding my breath every time Beanie carries the ball.

Pop.

"Darn. Where'd it go? I had it here a minute ago."

 

[THESMEL]

Me too

That is urban Myth, As the QB's are chrged with the fumble on the exchange, beanie had 2 fumbles as a rookie and 1 in his 2nd year.
counting playoffs that is about 1 every 100 carries.

Beanie knows he keeps his eyes down field and trusts his QB to place it in the bread basket, Kolb supports welcomes and takes pride in the run game. He is a true one quarter back comepared to 1/2 back and full back.

That is the most underated thing this preseason. Oh yea Bartell too!

I hope to God you are right because I am
sick and tired of holding my breath every time Beanie carries the ball.

Pop.

"Darn. Where'd it go? I had it here a minute ago."

 

[Fiasco]

Is it just me or is "the bean" the most annoying thing ever?

 

[Renz]

Is it just me or is "the bean" the most annoying thing ever?

It isn't just you.

 

[82CardsGrad]

I just watched the highlights of the top High School RB's all time, and IMO Beanies top 10 plays in about 300 carries in the NFL compares with their career highlight plays from 3000+.

Now that makes more sense!