Big trade with patriots - Cooper for Chandler Jones

[kerouac9]

Me too, well said Chopper. Now I'm waiting for Harry and K9....

I'm pleased but not thrilled. I think the idea of adding Jones and Freeney somehow gives us a kind of parity with Denver and Kansas City is nonsense.

First — I have no idea why people are squealing about Freeney still being available. He's fine, but he shouldn't be considered a priority. He's marginally better than Markus Golden and Okafor, but only marginally. 3 of his 8 sacks last year came in one game against Green Bay, where the Packers were signing offensive linemen out of the stands. He's going to be there, and there's no reason to throw money at him to get him into OTAs.

Second — Chandler Jones is a good, not great, pass rusher. He's definitely above average, and the best pass rusher we've had since Bertrand Berry, probably. But we shouldn't confuse him with some of the elite guys out there — like Von Miller.

That said, I'm much more bullish about pass rushers changing franchises than I am with guys at some other positions (particularly LB and WR). Julius Peppers didn't see much drop-off after moving from Carolina to Chicago. Jared Allen was able to remain productive after moving from Kansas City to Minnesota.

Also, I think that Jones is basically the prototype for what we're looking for at OLB — he's a capable run defender who has some pass-rushing skills. I think that Jamie Collins is more essential to what the Pats are doing, but Jones is a more finished product:

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Back when Grantland existed, Robert Mays did a great write-up on the Patriots' LB corps here.

Third — The about-face of everyone who liked Cooper and thought he was better than Ted Larsen/ready to be dominant is pretty hilarious. The guy was essentially a throw-in to the deal, for all intents and purposes. Cooper's salary is guaranteed, so I don't expect him to be cut, but he's not good.

It feels like the Patriots believe their OL coaching staff (they're bringing Scarnecchia back from retirement) are maybe better than ours at bringing out the best in Cooper.

 

[sunsfan88]

PFF doesn't find him that great.

https://twitter.com/PFF_Steve/status/709816057553408003

 

[Chopper0080]

I'm pleased but not thrilled. I think the idea of adding Jones and Freeney somehow gives us a kind of parity with Denver and Kansas City is nonsense.

First — I have no idea why people are squealing about Freeney still being available. He's fine, but he shouldn't be considered a priority. He's marginally better than Markus Golden and Okafor, but only marginally. 3 of his 8 sacks last year came in one game against Green Bay, where the Packers were signing offensive linemen out of the stands. He's going to be there, and there's no reason to throw money at him to get him into OTAs.

Second — Chandler Jones is a good, not great, pass rusher. He's definitely above average, and the best pass rusher we've had since Bertrand Berry, probably. But we shouldn't confuse him with some of the elite guys out there — like Von Miller.

That said, I'm much more bullish about pass rushers changing franchises than I am with guys at some other positions (particularly LB and WR). Julius Peppers didn't see much drop-off after moving from Carolina to Chicago. Jared Allen was able to remain productive after moving from Kansas City to Minnesota.

Also, I think that Jones is basically the prototype for what we're looking for at OLB — he's a capable run defender who has some pass-rushing skills. I think that Jamie Collins is more essential to what the Pats are doing, but Jones is a more finished product:

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Back when Grantland existed, Robert Mays did a great write-up on the Patriots' LB corps here.

Third — The about-face of everyone who liked Cooper and thought he was better than Ted Larsen/ready to be dominant is pretty hilarious. The guy was essentially a throw-in to the deal, for all intents and purposes. Cooper's salary is guaranteed, so I don't expect him to be cut, but he's not good.

It feels like the Patriots believe their OL coaching staff (they're bringing Scarnecchia back from retirement) are maybe better than ours at bringing out the best in Cooper.

First - Freeney comes down to cost. I would like him for a similar contract to last year, and in a similar role. Anything more is too much IMO.

Two - I agree with you in regards to Jones not being a guy who will take over a game ala Miller. What I like most about trading for Jones is what it COULD do for other players like Calais Campbell and the ILBs. The presence of an edge threat keeps lines from being able to collapse inwards in protections. This should open up Campbells inside rush move, open up blitz lanes for ILBs, and ensure one on one matchups for Golden and the other DE spot.

Three - Cooper is the reason the Pats didn't trade with the Browns. Fills a need. They like the skill set. They control the length of his time in NE. Re: the "Cooper Troopers", I will let you fight that battle, but you aren't wrong.

 

[Chopper0080]

PFF doesn't find him that great.

https://twitter.com/PFF_Steve/status/709816057553408003

Ugh...more PFF.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Agreed. The cards are taking a calculated risk. From what I've read it's not clear yet whether the NFL has put Jones into the drug program or not, apparently they don't have to have a conviction to do so. It's not clear if he is now in the program or not since that's not public.

I would assume the Cards did their homework and decided he's more like Honey Badger than D Wash.

great player, if he stays clean this is a great deal, especially given our history of screwing up 2nd round picks.

EVERYTHING I have read is that he loves football and absolute pro. In fact thats why BB was okay starting him next day when he usually has zero tolerance. It would be naive to think it didnt come into play at all, but it sounds like this was a guy using synthetic MJ (not illegal BTW) to recover, had a bad trip and it was front page news.

Ill give him benefit of the doubt. I dotn judge people based on their worst moment. ANd he has plenty to back up before that he is a guy that cares and is good dude. Well see.

Reading that Seahawks forum made me even happier. We basically got him for a year for free when you bring in comp pick.

And why they hell are people assuming we would lose him? Lol we have been waiting 20 years to get a top pass rusher in his prime. ANd well just let him walk? Doubt it. If hes good hell get paid by us.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

I want Freeney for rotation purposes.

But people are SERIOUSLY discounting Golden. He was the best rookie pass rusher last year by PFF and OUtsiders IIRC. Honey Badger said same thing yesterday. Golden and Jones can be Ware/Miller lite.

(Psssst They are both younger too)

 

[Arizona's Finest]

The other factor here. Pat were team that blitzed the least and Jones was asked to do ALOT of getting his hand on backs, covering TEs and other stuff. Hell be asked primarily to be a pass rusher here and I have been telling people he is our version of Michael Bennett. Sure hell be lined up at OLB most of time, but can be put on line with hand on ground and at DT too. This is the new NFL Hybrid rushers you can move in and out. Hellbe blitzing that A Gap like are boy Dwash too.

My best guess is he has 14+ sacks next year here if healthy. In fact its a shoo in.

And people like K9 are meh? LOL well see.

 

[CFLredzoned]

The NE beat guy on Burns and Gambo said he's not really a quick first step guy, but more of a guy that has really good moves to get past a tackle. Not elite, but about the top of the next class - in terms of edge rushing ability. As far as run stopping, said he was a liability and a target early on, but has improved some.

Unrelated, Kent Somers on NE podcast:

https://soundcloud.com/csnne/quick-slants-the-podcast-ep-42-chandler-jones-traded

 

[CardsFan88]

Jones may not be better here, or he could be utilized in a way that matches his strengths and takes the next step here. We'll find out.

Either way we should be thrilled because he is better then anything we could of gotten in FA. Thus what we got is better then what anyone could realistically think possible. That should thrill us.

Anytime you expect something, then massively surpass that, you should be thrilled.

 

[juza76]

Jones has super hands to fight with tackle and getting penetration plus he is very agile for his size.
And maybe some of u forgot he has 36inch arms..Its like an octopus

 

[cardncubfan]

Jones may not be better here, or he could be utilized in a way that matches his strengths and takes the next step here. We'll find out.

Either way we should be thrilled because he is better then anything we could of gotten in FA. Thus what we got is better then what anyone could realistically think possible. That should thrill us.

Anytime you expect something, then massively surpass that, you should be thrilled.

This. Well said CF88.

 

[Bodha]

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Its just 1 clip, but that was interesting. He did a little stutter step into a hop which got him the angle on the LT, and immediately accelerated into the QB. impressive.

Also Im just watching that RG get rolled up. Scary

 

[SteveKiner]

Jones has super hands to fight with tackle and getting penetration plus he is very agile for his size.
And maybe some of u forgot he has 36inch arms..Its like an octopus

I totally agree with these sentiments.

Some on here have asked about him, so here are a few things about Chandler Jones.

Has an arsenal of Pass rush moves. Not Lawrence Taylor quick off the snap but still very quick. Uses a great swim move and as noted has extremely long arms, even has a Reggie White type hump/club move. Speed to power. Biggest thing is his agility. Can change direction without slowing down. Very very athletic. Light on his feet. Struggled a little bit this past year and last year when teams ran right at him. Looked more stout against the run earlier in his career. Not sure why that was. The Pats moved him inside some to a 5 technique and that may be when he got moved off the ball. i don't have tape in front of me and just going by memory. I am pretty sure the Cards will mostly have him in a 7 technique and that should play to his strengths. Even though he is very athletic, he rarely covers anyone. When he is in there he goes after the RB on running downs and after the QB on passing downs. I don't ever remember him covering anyone.
I think one of his positives is he can be moved around and used a chess piece. Move him inside in the nickel, passing downs, and he will beat guards off the snap. Put him outside and he will beat the tackle one on one. If the tackle is more of a power guy than a guy with good feet, it will be a long day for the tackle. If the tackle can get a body on Jones, Jones can be moved off the spot. But getting to him is not easy. Jones has good hands.

The Pats generally play a 2 gap 4-3/3-4 hybrid. Jones was pretty much allowed to 1 gap due to his athletic ability. Plus he seems like a very smart player. Belichick let him let's say improvise a little. Not many are allowed to do that. You might see mention of Jones productivity falling off late in the year the past couple years. Not sure what happened this past year other than a nagging injury. The pats are very closed mouth on injuries But the prior year he dropped off because he was playing 98% of the snaps. I don't know if I would call him an "iron man" but he is close if not there.

Hopefully that fills in some blanks.
I think an OLB rotation of Golden/Okafor/Jones looks pretty formidable and as i stated Jones can be moved around.

I think this was a good deal for both sides. Cards get a needed pass rusher just entering his prime. If he plays as advertised, they resign/franchise him or worst case get a 3rd round comp pick for him. The Pats get a 2nd round pick which they need and a possible lottery ticket that may pay off big or not at all for a player that was going to walk away in year.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I remember watching D'Anthony Batiste go against Chandler Jones vividly. I watched him routinely beat Batiste and Batiste hold him on literally every play.

He's the type of rusher that beats people with moves, strength and occasional burst. This is the type of rusher Steve Keim has been looking for based on prior draftees.

 

[Shane]

Chandler Jones on trade to Cardinals: 'I was smiling from ear to ear' - NFL Videos

Great 5 minute interview

 

[BullheadCardFan]

Chandler Jones says he’ll prove himself in Arizona, on and off field

Chandler Jones says he’s eager to show the Cardinals got the better end of the trade that sent him from New England to Arizona.

The Patriots may have traded Jones in part because of the January incident when he was hospitalized for a bad reaction to synthetic marijuana, but Jones insisted at his introductory press conference that he’s not going to to be an off-field problem.

“I understand you asking that question, but it’s something that I’ve definitely moved forward with, and like I said, I’m trying to prove and I’m proving that I’m not that person,” Jones said.

Jones also said he believes he’s going to be an upgrade to the Cardinals’ pass rush and a good fit in the defense.

“I try to do what’s right and what the coaches ask me to do, but when I go on the field, I try to be myself,” Jones said. “That’s what brings my best game out. My biggest goal is getting with the guys and jelling with the guys. I want them to know I’m not an individual. I want to be an addition. It’s going to be great.”

 

[Ohcrap75]

I'm not going to claim to know who Jones really is or if he will have any off the field problems going forward, but from what I have seen in interviews and a game he was mic'd up for, he seems like a smart kid with a positive attitude. He reminds me of PP a little personality wise. He talks a lot, but usually with a smile on his face. You can tell he is having fun out there and is constantly cheering on his teammates or trying to pump them up. I really hope the drug incident was a one time occurrence because he seems like a guy that can develop into another leader on our defense.

 

[Cheesebeef]

how freaking awesome is it that JPP decided NOT to take our offer? I mean, instead of getting him and continuing to be saddled with Cooper, we basically traded Cooper and a 2nd rounder for Chandler Jones and Evan Mathis. Pretty damn good deal if you ask me.

 

[cardncubfan]

how freaking awesome is it that JPP decided NOT to take our offer? I mean, instead of getting him and continuing to be saddled with Cooper, we basically traded Cooper and a 2nd rounder for Chandler Jones and Evan Mathis. Pretty damn good deal if you ask me.

Agreed. I would much rather have Chandler Jones than JPP. Evan Mathis is a stud even though it's only for 1 year.

 

[BigRedRage]

It's illegal in Massachusetts. I read about this story when it happened and the fear among Pats people was that merely admitting he had smoked it might be enough to get him into the drug program. There were conflicting reports that he said he thought he was buying real pot and got synthetic instead, if that were true merely admitting he tried to buy real pot could get him into the NFL drug program believe it or not. They don't need a conviction or a positive test.

But the pats were afraid since it's illegal in Mass, the NFL would consider it a violation of the drug policy and he'd now be subject to random testing.

But nobody has any idea if that's what happened because it's confidential, NFL teams apparently know, but it's not public knowledge.

Spice looks nothing at all like pot so I doubt that story

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

 

[Redneck Voodoo]

Jones may not be better here, or he could be utilized in a way that matches his strengths and takes the next step here. We'll find out.

Either way we should be thrilled because he is better then anything we could of gotten in FA. Thus what we got is better then what anyone could realistically think possible. That should thrill us.

Anytime you expect something, then massively surpass that, you should be thrilled.

+100. We're better on defense and are better at guard on offense because of this trade. I'm thrilled!

 

[Osbern61]

I don't think I have ever seen a guy get traded from a successful team that looked as happy as Chandler Jones.

 

[DeAnna]

Interesting tidbit I heard on radio this morning. The Patriots approached the Cardinals first (not the other way around). Pats knew they could not keep him once he hit free agency next year, so decided to trade him and get something in return. Proactive.

 

[Stout]

Interesting tidbit I heard on radio this morning. The Patriots approached the Cardinals first (not the other way around). Pats knew they could not keep him once he hit free agency next year, so decided to trade him and get something in return. Proactive.

And they knew we had a glaring need at the position, so voila! A trade was born. It sounds like we were the perfect trading partners. This is what can happen when you have two teams with intelligent front offices.