Black Monday 2022 edition

[Arz101]

The problem that I see with all these firings is replacements.I just don't see many good candidates for the Head Coach openings.

Jim Harbaugh.
Brian Flores.
Anyone comes to mind?

 

[Stout]

THIS! If you want Kliff fired, please have a plan for how you're going to get better than him with:

1) Game management/organization
2) Offensive design/playcalling
3) QB Coaching

Because he's doing all three, and there might not be another head coach in the NFL doing as much (McVay comes to mind, but he's been developing more subordinates).

You might be able to get stronger at (1), but it probably comes at the expense of (2) and (3).


This seems like speculation, but I'd be interested in seeing that validated.

There remains progress, and some of the best coaches in the game frequently make seemingly mystifying brain farts.

Game management and organization have been poor. Offensive design and play calling have at times been great, at times been mediocre, and at times been garbage, the very definition of inconsistent. Don't even get me started on so-called QB coaching. Like, having Kyler revert to old, bad mistakes, not remotely understanding the 2-minute offense, not utilizing the pocket, not throwing the ball away to avoid bad sacks, it feels like KK is doing quite the opposite of developing our talented young QB.

 

[QuebecCard]

See: Los Angeles Clippers

That's the only argument you need to compare.

Did the Clippers have a black GM?

 

[Russ Smith]

Jim Harbaugh.
Brian Flores.
Anyone comes to mind?

Flores is a good DC frankly I am very surprised they fired him. He stayed the course and they got better and I doubt he's the one who said draft Tua over Herbert but he's made it work.

If Vance gets a HC job Flores would 100% be on my short list for DC.

The owner said they wanted more communication and collaboration which I think means he's a good DC but they didn't like his people skills as a HC?

Will be interesting to see which way they go, Tua has to be nervous, Flores stuck by him even though I don't think he was Flores' pick.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Flores is a good DC frankly I am very surprised they fired him. He stayed the course and they got better and I doubt he's the one who said draft Tua over Herbert but he's made it work.

If Vance gets a HC job Flores would 100% be on my short list for DC.

The owner said they wanted more communication and collaboration which I think means he's a good DC but they didn't like his people skills as a HC?

Will be interesting to see which way they go, Tua has to be nervous, Flores stuck by him even though I don't think he was Flores' pick.

Flores would be a coup but for the reasons you said here the Bidwill/Keim crew would never hire him. Also helps explain why the Dolphins have been terrible for decades.

Winning games with Tua/Fitzpatrick requires some coaching chops. Wins at same pace at Kliff who has had Kyler.

 

[Russ Smith]

Flores would be a coup but for the reasons you said here the Bidwill/Keim crew would never hire him. Also helps explain why the Dolphins have been terrible for decades.

Winning games with Tua/Fitzpatrick requires some coaching chops. Wins at same pace at Kliff who has had Kyler.

I think he's one of the better defensive coaches in the league. They get after the QB but they also play solid football against the run. They started the year losing and their run defense was a big reason why but as the season went on, the run defense became a strength. Same on offense they got better as the year went on. I have no idea how much input he had on offense but that 3-4 blitzing defense they run, that's all him.

I seriously doubt it happens I suspect there's going to be a bunch of NFL teams after him, but I would love to see Vance get a HC job and us get Flores that guy can be my DC any day of the week.

 

[Ronin]

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[Ronin]

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[kerouac9]

In my opinion it starts at Keim (well it starts with the Bidwill family but we can't fire them) but I doubt SK firing happens. Most of the ownership and staff think this team has high-level talent which is partially true. The roster is very top-heavy and way too many high picks and money have been allocated in areas where we honestly aren't that good or deep most notably WR. How much in the draft and FA capital have we put into wide receiver and here we are playing some dudes named Dratch and Antoine Wesley in a must-win game.

Kliff is the symptom. The disease are the two guys above. It's also problematic that many people around the league don't want to work with the Bidwill family. MB is better than his old man in a lot of ways but the majority of the talented people around the league only want to hear from their owners when needed. MB wants a seat at every table (draft, FA's, coaching hires, etc). Some dudes especially the most talented ones don't want that meddling and micro-management.

I agree with all of this. Kliff was obviously a flawed candidate when we hired him, and remains a flawed head coach. But who are you going to bring in here that is going to deal with Bidwill + Kyler?

Look what's happening in Cleveland right now. New HC took #1 overall pick QB to the playoffs, a year later he's soured on him and they're maybe moving on. That's the risk you run, especially if you believe that Kyler is a mercurial personality that might not fit in with more traditional coaching styles.

 

[Arz101]

Broncos going to hire Dan Quinn. Trade for Wilson and see themselves in the last place of the division until Mahomes retires.

 

[Arz101]

I agree with all of this. Kliff was obviously a flawed candidate when we hired him, and remains a flawed head coach. But who are you going to bring in here that is going to deal with Bidwill + Kyler?

Look what's happening in Cleveland right now. New HC took #1 overall pick QB to the playoffs, a year later he's soured on him and they're maybe moving on. That's the risk you run, especially if you believe that Kyler is a mercurial personality that might not fit in with more traditional coaching styles.

7 years 90 million contract for Lincoln Riley might keep the QB happy. Outside of such ridiculousness, yeah, options are limited

 

[Ronin]

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[kerouac9]

7 years 90 million contract for Lincoln Riley might keep the QB happy. Outside of such ridiculousness, yeah, options are limited

Honestly, tho, what has Lincoln Riley won? He's a high-rent version of Kliff Kingsbury, probably.

 

[Ronin]

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[RON_IN_OC]

As much as we complain about Keim, Kliff and Vance...there are organizations running Steve Wilks type crap year after year. I want better as well but it could be a lot worse.

Totally agree.

When KK was hired, Keim and Bidwill both knew they were hiring a coach based on potential...a coach with a losing college record...a coach with zero playoff/championship coaching experience. If you are going down that road, you (as an organization) need to be all in with that coach and give him time to develop. KK is far, far from perfect, but he has improved incrementally each year. I think he gets another 2 years to keep building. If his improvements go flat, then you move on.

 

[Ronin]

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[Ronin]

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[dreamcastrocks]

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I called this shot yesterday before the games that the Broncos hire Moore and will try to pull Russell Wilson out of Seattle.

 

[Chopper0080]

In my opinion it starts at Keim (well it starts with the Bidwill family but we can't fire them) but I doubt SK firing happens. Most of the ownership and staff think this team has high-level talent which is partially true. The roster is very top-heavy and way too many high picks and money have been allocated in areas where we honestly aren't that good or deep most notably WR. How much in the draft and FA capital have we put into wide receiver and here we are playing some dudes named Dratch and Antoine Wesley in a must-win game.

Kliff is the symptom. The disease are the two guys above. It's also problematic that many people around the league don't want to work with the Bidwill family. MB is better than his old man in a lot of ways but the majority of the talented people around the league only want to hear from their owners when needed. MB wants a seat at every table (draft, FA's, coaching hires, etc). Some dudes especially the most talented ones don't want that meddling and micro-management.

This is really why it is tough to see too much change. The Bidwill / Keim dynamic works for Bidwill. Keim is ok enough to not do anything to overtly get himself fired. Then we go to Kliff who is a guy who seems to work with Keim calling most of the shots. Does not seem to be a power struggle between Kliff and Keim at all.

As I said, to me it seems like the one in a precarious position is Vance because Keim is spending high picks on guys that Vance doesn't play and that makes Keim look bad. Because Keim is not going anywhere and Kliff has no real tie to Vance as he was Keim's hire, seems like Vance would be the one to be sacrificed. I also could be telling myself the story I want to hear.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

In my opinion it starts at Keim (well it starts with the Bidwill family but we can't fire them) but I doubt SK firing happens. Most of the ownership and staff think this team has high-level talent which is partially true. The roster is very top-heavy and way too many high picks and money have been allocated in areas where we honestly aren't that good or deep most notably WR. How much in the draft and FA capital have we put into wide receiver and here we are playing some dudes named Dratch and Antoine Wesley in a must-win game.

Kliff is the symptom. The disease are the two guys above. It's also problematic that many people around the league don't want to work with the Bidwill family. MB is better than his old man in a lot of ways but the majority of the talented people around the league only want to hear from their owners when needed. MB wants a seat at every table (draft, FA's, coaching hires, etc). Some dudes especially the most talented ones don't want that meddling and micro-management.

Nice post. You’re exactly right about MB.

I got roasted awhile back when I said he’s not an easy owner to work for.

 

[Ronin]

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[Stout]

Totally agree.

When KK was hired, Keim and Bidwill both knew they were hiring a coach based on potential...a coach with a losing college record...a coach with zero playoff/championship coaching experience. If you are going down that road, you (as an organization) need to be all in with that coach and give him time to develop. KK is far, far from perfect, but he has improved incrementally each year. I think he gets another 2 years to keep building. If his improvements go flat, then you move on.

Or you go all in and give him 5 or 6 years and we just wasted KM on his rookie contract and beyond. You don't get 5-6 years to take baby steps in the modern NFL.

 

[juza76]

Jim Harbaugh.
Brian Flores.
Anyone comes to mind?

Vance Joseph
we have to do the little things and promote this great coach

 

[QuebecCard]

This is really why it is tough to see too much change. The Bidwill / Keim dynamic works for Bidwill. Keim is ok enough to not do anything to overtly get himself fired. Then we go to Kliff who is a guy who seems to work with Keim calling most of the shots. Does not seem to be a power struggle between Kliff and Keim at all.

As I said, to me it seems like the one in a precarious position is Vance because Keim is spending high picks on guys that Vance doesn't play and that makes Keim look bad. Because Keim is not going anywhere and Kliff has no real tie to Vance as he was Keim's hire, seems like Vance would be the one to be sacrificed. I also could be telling myself the story I want to hear.

Relieved to see some self-awareness.

 

[DaHilg]

Or you go all in and give him 5 or 6 years and we just wasted KM on his rookie contract and beyond. You don't get 5-6 years to take baby steps in the modern NFL.

This… my concern is Kyler’s rookie contract. Barring something drastic, Kyler is here for the long term. Do you really want to waste the rest of his rookie contract and developmental years? I’d hire Kellen Moore in a heartbeat…

Also, on Vance. Don’t see anyone clamoring for an interview with him - we get rid of him or he’s here next year as well. Nobody is clamoring for a DC to be HC who just got gashed for 190 yards by Penny in division championship determining game.