Bled+picks=top 7?

[Mainstreet]

Might sound harsh but TJ Warren doesn't do anything for me. He's hovering around 14 pts on 12 shots, doesn't playmake as a SF and can't shoot 3's or get to the line. I see him as a 6th-man type wing.

Except from 3 point range his stats improve each season. Warren is certainly not a flashy player. If the Suns draft a SF they might want to trade him a year early.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/warretj01.html

 

[Sunburn]

It all depends on who is on the board at that point, really. I like TJ a lot but getting someone younger to grow with Booker and our other draft pick might be a better way to go. Warren's durability is a big question mark to us fans and one of the reasons I'm hesitant to count on him full time as our starting SF. If McD has an area of expertise it's got to be drafting and scouting players because he's done a great job considering where our picks have been and what he's managed to bring in.

I'm not the GM, thankfully, because I'd try hard to get another pick towards the top of the draft using Bledsoe as bait. The reason I threw TJ's name out there is because it's known that Orlando is interested, although I highly doubt they'd trade their pick for TJ straight up because I'm sure they could get a better offer.

This made me lol. TJ is 23. TJ is part of our youth movement. He can grow with Booker just fine. Durability may be a legitimate issue but age is not.

 

[Hoop Head]

Do you really think age is an issue with TJ?

I think his age is an issue when his durability is factored in. He's young but he can't seem to stay healthy, which is worrisome. Less so if he was our 6th man.

It's funny, because I'm realizing that also kind of describes PJ Tucker...I just think he was always overrated on defense and was difficult to watch on offense.

Tucker was beyond awful offensively. He wouldn't have been that bad if he didn't try to do so much more than he was capable of. Whenever I'd see him start dribbling I always figured that it would be a wasted possession. He got tunnel vision quite a bit and it seemed to get worse the more he was doing defensively, like he knew he could get away with more because he was doing so well on the other side of ball.

Trivia: In what year will the Suns have a winning season. Bonus, in what year will the Suns win their division?

We could break 500 next year but I think the 2018-19 season we should be in playoff contention regularly.

 

[hsandhu]

For the people saying tj doesnt do much for them, are you just looking at box scores or actually watching games?

Since they got tucker out of his way:

17.8 points , 7.6 rebounds , 56% shooting in 18 games

He is a killer mid range shooter, and while not the fastest, can get to his mid range spot when he needs to with quick moves.

Long term potential, if you had two superstar players, could he be the 3rd best player on a contender, possibly.

With all the suns young talent and the 2017 pick, the suns are trying to be in position to have more than 2 superstars, likely moving tj to the bench.

If he mentally can produce the same in 30 minutes off the bench, that is a hell of a weapon.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

For the people saying tj doesnt do much for them, are you just looking at box scores or actually watching games?

Since they got tucker out of his way:

17.8 points , 7.6 rebounds , 56% shooting in 18 games

He is a killer mid range shooter, and while not the fastest, can get to his mid range spot when he needs to with quick moves.

Long term potential, if you had two superstar players, could he be the 3rd best player on a contender, possibly.

With all the suns young talent and the 2017 pick, the suns are trying to be in position to have more than 2 superstars, likely moving tj to the bench.

If he mentally can produce the same in 30 minutes off the bench, that is a hell of a weapon.

I hadn't realized he was rebounding at that rate for so many games. That's a nice add to almost 18pts

 

[hsandhu]

I hadn't realized he was rebounding at that rate for so many games. That's a nice add to almost 18pts

He's a little like ceballos, very good at finding creases to both get rebounds and get to his shooting spot .

 

[Cheesebeef]

He's a little like ceballos, very good at finding creases to both get rebounds and get to his shooting spot .

agree... ceballos is and has always been the perfect comparison. but therein lies the problem. Ceballos could never be the 3rd of a Big 3 of a championship team, especially not in today's NBA.

He's a nice starter, but he'd be a KILLER sixth man, IMO. He's just got too many limitations to play SF as our everyday starter once this team is actually contending.

 

[Hoop Head]

That's part of where I could see TJ's age working against the Suns, not because he's too old but asking a player that young to settle in as a bench player could be troublesome. I don't think we'll have any problems next year because he'll most likely start the season as the starting SF but when he's a restricted free agent after the season I could see him asking the Suns not to match if he gets an offer to go somewhere and be a starter. Asking someone who is averaging 18 points a game as the main SF on our team to step back and come off the bench could be a problem, especially if it's for a developing player. Warren is best when he's the starter, this season has proven that, and if we moved him to the bench for a veteran maybe he'd be ok with it but moving to the bench for a rookie? I don't see him accepting that, and I'm not sure a player that is at his point in his career should either. You don't want to keep someone here longterm who doesn't want to be here in the role we ask him to play either. We already got one player like that already in Knight.

TJ isn't very vocal or assertive so I don't think he'd push the issue like IT did when he was here as our 6th man and outplayed Dragic and Bledsoe most nights. Warren can leave after next season, we're going to have to make a decision on his future soon. Neither Jackson or Tatum aret Lebron or Durant sort of players who can be the face of your franchise from draft day moving forward either, which would probably make it a harder sell to Warren to back one of them up, if we go that route in the draft. Warren will be the better player next season and he's too young to concede his spot to someone like them. I don't think we should want someone that young who is just willing to roll over either.

It's really not that different from the situation we have with Knight right now. He resigned with Phoenix to be a starter alongside Bledsoe moving forward. Because of injuries though Booker stepped up and it became obvious that he's the better player long term for the Suns but he needs to be on the floor to develop. It was also clear that Bledsoe plays better alongside Booker. This was Bledsoe's team first and he fits better than Knight so that pushed Knight to the bench. He never truly embraced the 6th man role, regardless of what he or Watson has said to the media, it's obvious watching him play that he hasn't embraced his role. Knight seems content rolling over and cashing his checks rather than trying to play at his best and make the decision hard for Watson as far as who is starting. He's regressed to the point that he's lost the backup PG spot to an undersized rookie who was taken in the 2nd round and he's lost the backup SG spot to a 34 year old journeyman SG who is in his final years in the league. Now our highest paid player has fallen out of the rotation and there is no market to trade him without taking on a bad contract or giving up assets to unload him. I don't want to see the same thing happen with Warren going forward.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

For the people saying tj doesnt do much for them, are you just looking at box scores or actually watching games?

Definitely watching the games. To be clear, I think he is fantastic at what he does. I just worry about his limitations. I think you make a good point about his rebounding. He's shown improvement there, and I think we are all guilty of judging young players on what they are now versus what they can be.

That said, my issue with Warren is basically his fit next to Booker. With both of them on the floor for starter minutes, I worry about our perimeter defense. Is he capable of improving in that area as well? I think he already has...just not as much as I'd prefer.

 

[slinslin]

If we had the #1 pick I would be open to potentially packaging Bender and/or Warren with Bledsoe if it meant securing Tatum or Jackson.

Len or Chandler/Williams
Chriss/Dudley
Jackson/JonesJr
Booker/#32/Barbosa
Fultz/Ulis/#53

The bench would require some fleshing out with whatever fillers we would get from moving Bledsoe and Knight.

My biggest problem with TJ Warren is that he has shown little to no progress as a 3pt shooter. We are one of the worst 3pt shooting teams in the league. Aside from being a bad defensive team it is easily the biggest flaw in our team and a large part of that is that we are very bad in this category from the small forward and point guard positions.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Just for the record, Tuckers defense was not overrated. The impact he has made on Torontos defense is nothing short of staggering. It's DPOY stuff.

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[slinslin]

Just for the record, Tuckers defense was not overrated. The impact he has made on Torontos defense is nothing short of staggering. It's DPOY stuff.

Kawhi is DPOY stuff, Tucker is not.

And I don't think anyone ever complained about Tuckers defense, his horrid offensive was what people complained about.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Kawhi is DPOY stuff, Tucker is not.

And I don't think anyone ever complained about Tuckers defense, his horrid offensive was what people complained about.

I am talking about his impact on the Raptors in the short time he has been there. It has been that significant. And yes, many, even in this thread claimed his defense was over rated.

He is obviously much more effective on a team where he does not have to carry any offensive load except an occasional corner three.

It's going to be interesting to see what kind of impact he has in the playoffs. His physical game with the grabbing and pulling he does might be even more effective there.

He is going to get paid well this summer.

Btw. I am not saying we should not have traded him. I was a fan of that trade and still am. He is not a part of the Suns future and it was time to part ways.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

Just for the record, Tuckers defense was not overrated. The impact he has made on Torontos defense is nothing short of staggering. It's DPOY stuff.

You must be registered for see images attach

Good find. That is interesting stuff. Perhaps my notion that his defense was overrated is wrong.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Good find. That is interesting stuff. Perhaps my notion that his defense was overrated is wrong.

I think it shows how much difference a team dynamic makes. The Raptors have a very good defensive pg in Lowry. That allows PJ's defense to be more effective. A really good defensive player on a bad defensive team will really struggle to have impact. The other team will just avoid him and find effective offense somewhere else on the court.

 

[Hoop Head]

Just for the record, Tuckers defense was not overrated. The impact he has made on Torontos defense is nothing short of staggering. It's DPOY stuff.

You must be registered for see images attach

I think this could be out of context some because the Raptors made a few changes around that time with Lowry going down and Ibaka coming in as well. I don't think he's done all of that alone but I haven't watched any Raptor games.

 

[Mainstreet]

I knew the Suns should have held out for a first round pick.

Thanks for presenting the stats JC.

 

[pokerface]

I knew the Suns should have held out for a first round pick.

For the love of Cotton he tried.

 

[Mainstreet]

For the love of Cotton he tried.

McDonough indeed tried very hard to get a first round pick for Tucker.

I think a lot of fans pooh, pooh later second round picks but I'm very much interested in who the Suns might draft with the Raptors pick the next two drafts.

 

[pokerface]

McDonough indeed tried very hard to get a first round pick for Tucker.

I think a lot of fans pooh, pooh later second round picks but I'm very much interested in who the Suns might draft with the Raptors pick the next two drafts.

Well with picks like Ulis getting snagged up in the second round I'm more excited than I used to be. I'll probably start browsing nbadraft to see who's available. You have anyone in particular singled out?

 

[Mainstreet]

Well with picks like Ulis getting snagged up in the second round I'm more excited than I used to be. I'll probably start browsing nbadraft to see who's available. You have anyone in particular singled out?

No, not this late in the draft. However, it will be interesting to peruse the draft boards to see who might be there later in the draft.

 

[pokerface]

So mainstreet...Do you think dealing Bledsoe plus pick(s) to crack the top 7 is a good idea? I know you've been high on Fox...Worth it?

 

[Mainstreet]

So mainstreet...Do you think dealing Bledsoe plus pick(s) to crack the top 7 is a good idea? I know you've been high on Fox...Worth it?

I'm not for trading both Bledsoe and picks for a top 7 pick. Now, I might trade Bledsoe alone for a top 7 or top 10 pick if the Suns draft a PG with their first selection.

It all depends how the Suns view the players after their selection. The Suns would not do this as a blind trade but have an advance agreement with another team... if a certain player is available where they pick.

 

[Hoop Head]

Can the Suns put protection on the Miami pick at all? Like trading the worse pick out of ours and the Miami pick we own in the same year.

 

[pokerface]

I'm not for trading both Bledsoe and picks for a top 7 pick. Now, I might trade Bledsoe alone for a top 7 or top 10 pick if the Suns draft a PG with their first selection.

It all depends how the Suns view the players after their selection. The Suns would not do this as a blind trade but have an advance agreement with another team... if a certain player is available where they pick.

I just feel the longer we hold Bled the more his value could slip. Two years left on his contract is almost the minimum to get a decent return back. I wish he had another year...Then maybe we could crack the top ten. I think we need to package him with at least a Miami pick to get top 7.