Boldin Misses Practice

[conraddobler]

No he doesnt. He has two completely healthy knees. As proven by his play on the field and no setbacks during the off-season. He has had knee injuries in the past as had more than half the people that play football.

Do you say Edgerrin JAmes has a Bumb knee? Did you say Jerry Rice had a bumb knee when he was putting up pro-bowl #s following his injury? Would you say that Willis Mcgahee had a bumb knee when he racked up 1300 yards last year? The list could go on and on.

Everyone has good points on this matter, Boldin never has been a burner and proved last year that with another off season he should be back to full form which still makes him our best WR.

He's clutch catching all over the field and I want him back in the worst way. I do believe though that right now the Fitz contract is causing problems. I also believe that somewhere in there he lost trust of the Cardinals.

His agent IMO is by far the greediest party here. The Cardinals and Boldin want to protect themselves but both would reach a fair compromise if not for Drew.

Drew is going to use our special circumstances needing to fill the new stadium to crowbar his way to the most ridiculous contract he can get. That's his job, it's now a big game of chicken that probably will signifigantly hurt all parties unless someone interjects some reason into the process.

We will just have to see if that happens.

 

[CaptTurbo]

Im not saying give him the world. Or Fitz money for that matter. But the fact is he deserves a raise(a hefty one). To do nothing is silly and bad business. The Cards apparently agree. But your right if his demands are to high then let him walk.

ok so we see eye to eye!

 

[CaptTurbo]

Drew is going to use our special circumstances needing to fill the new stadium to crowbar his way to the most ridiculous contract he can get. That's his job, it's now a big game of chicken that probably will signifigantly hurt all parties unless someone interjects some reason into the process.
.

Cards have the high ground. Regardless of the player I hate situations liek this. Makes them all out to be greedy people in the end.

Just like Mark Smith when he was here. If Boldin turns down a decent offer I would prefer the cardinals make him sit at home for 2 years then cut him. That way he will have 0 value and will send a message to the rest of the league.

All teams should do this. IF your going to hold the team hostage learn how to make fries with Mark Smith. He should be an expert by now.

 

[Rocco]

Sort of agree but I don't think Quan hiring Rosenhaus is what started this. I think Quan's knee injury and how it was handled is what caused Quan to go and hire Rosenhaus.

Quan in my opinion felt he was pushed into practicing when the extent of his knee injury really wasn't known, it locked up, and he needed the surgery. In his mind he did precisely what he was told. When the injury turned out fairly serious, the Cards suddenly were hesitant to continue with the plan of extending him(which was supposed to happen LAST season). So in Quan's mind they went from extending him in year 2 to making him wait and prove he was healthy, because they pushed him into practicing when he wasn't healthy.

Whether that's true or not is debatable but I'm convinced that's what Quan thinks and that's why he fired his agent and hired Rosenhaus. he decided he was not in a position where he could trust the Cards to take care of him, so he went and hired himself an assassin.

One thing about the Green quote caught my attention. Green said Boldin wanted a new contract and we want to give him a contract extension? I wonder what the difference between the two would be in terms of years, dollars, bonus, etc.

 

[clif]

One thing about the Green quote caught my attention. Green said Boldin wanted a new contract and we want to give him a contract extension? I wonder what the difference between the two would be in terms of years, dollars, bonus, etc.

meaning he wont get as much (if any) in signing bonus which is guaranteed money

 

[Rocco]

meaning he wont get as much (if any) in signing bonus which is guaranteed money

I agree. This is all going to boil down to reaching an agreement on the guaranteed money.

 

[JPlay]

Boldin is an Ox out there. Throw him the ball and he makes the tough catches and gets YAC. He's a probowl talent and deserves to be paid in at least the top 15WR to top 10. His knee injury last year and lack of big plays and touchdowns may hurt him in negotiations. I can list

1. Randy Moss
2. Terrell Owens
3. Marvin Harrison
4. Torry Holt
5. Joe Horn
6. Chad Johnson
7. Hines Ward
8. Eric Moulds
9. Javon Walker
10. Andre Johnson

I would put Boldin in this 10-15 range with guys like:

Roy Williams
Steve Smith
Jimmy Smith
Darrell Jackson
Laverneous Coles
Reggie Wayne
Isaac Bruce
Musin Muhammed

I think that before the injury he was top 5-10.

 

[ajcardfan]

Thats an accurate version of what occured Russ. I still dont know hwy you guys call that injury "serioous" though. As far as knee injuries go its fairly minor. Any knee injury where you can come back that same year is pretty minor.

I don't think that's right. The way I remember it, Boldin chose to not sit when given the chance. Then, he didn't even practice, the knee locked during warm ups. Now, perhaps Boldin does feel the Cards' doctors should've told him to sit, but I've never heard him even imply that.

 

[Russ Smith]

oh should I get into this and list everyone who's injuries came back to haunt them and end their playing days?

I guess its easy to say "give him all the money in the world" when it isnt yorus. But Im not ready to sell the future for Boldin either as yoru ready to do. We will need money for a QB next year and they ain't cheap. And you want us to pay 5 billion a year on recievers alone. Let alone one with past injuries.

I think its fairly certain if we gave Boldin a fitz contrcat that we will have paid more for our top 3 wr's than any team ever.

No thank you!

The QB comment reminds me of the likely reason that Green has now twice cut players before June 1st taking caphits this season that could have been taken next season. I suspect Green is saving caproom NEXT year figuring he'll probably need it for a QB.

 

[Russ Smith]

I don't think that's right. The way I remember it, Boldin chose to not sit when given the chance. Then, he didn't even practice, the knee locked during warm ups. Now, perhaps Boldin does feel the Cards' doctors should've told him to sit, but I've never heard him even imply that.

I haven't hear QUan say but it was reported here that Jurecki had said that Quan was cleared to practice based on the reading of an MRI when there was nobody present "qualified" to read said MRI. Again, I have no idea if that's true or not and anybody with a better memory feel free but here's what I find looking back online.

Monday August 9 Boldin sits out a morning practice with soreness in his knee, is cleared to resume practice that evening after taking an MRI. Tuesday morning while "light jogging" the knee locks up.

The Cards did not have the MRI results because Russell Chick had operated on Marcell Shipp on Tuesday and was not available to read the results of the MRI.

So Boldin sat out the first practice, had some tests, no results were available but he participated in the next one and tried to the next day when it locked.

Here's where my memory gets fuzzy as to what was rumored and what we actually know. I recall that the Cards announced the MRI results showed the knee was fairly minor and Quan would be back in a few weeks. When they did the actual surgery, they found more extensive damage. That's when Jurecki reported that the reason was the initial timetable was based on the MRI taken MONDAY before the knee locked, but not read until AFTER the knee locked. So the implication was that he had further injured the knee after the MRI was taken.

I've also read here that the injury Quan had would NOT have shown on the MRI so it's impossible to know if he really did hurt it more.

Again I'm not saying I know what actually happened, I'm saying in my opinion Quan believes that he followed team medical advice, further injured his knee, and as a result the team no longer was willing to redo his deal last year because he was injured.

All in my opinion I don't have a hotphone to Quan or Rosenhaus.

 

[DKCards]

I like Q but I guess I am still from the old school. I know it is not the way of the NFL anymore but if you signed a contract live by it. I have no problem with trying to renegotiate but if you can’t get it done you still get out on the field and honor your contract that YOU signed. Yes an owner should give raises to top performers but the player has to remember that he agreed and signed a contract. Too bad that players who make more then you don’t produce as much, play out your contract and then get paid. I know that he can get hurt but that is part of the profession he is in. Everyone says that the player has to protect himself but what about the owners? If they pay a 10 million dollar signing bonus and the player wrecks his knee the next day they can not get that back so there is even more risk on their part. I agree with SWD, the owners should just burry these players on the bench and let their value go down. If it happened more then once the players would start to take notice but the owners are weak and would never do that.



Also Q’s TD production is a good point. As great of a receiver he is he doesn’t score. Last I checked the team with the most points wins. In 2004 he only had 1 TD in 10 games or to put it another way 1 TD in 56 touches. Even in 2003 when he had 101 catches he only had 8 TDs or 1 in every 12.6 catches. Fitzgerald on the other hand scored every 7.25 touches. Who is worth more? How can all you Shipp haters overlook this part of Q's game?

 

[Russ Smith]

meaning he wont get as much (if any) in signing bonus which is guaranteed money

You typically get another bonus when you extend but yeah it's unlikely to be as high as if we just tore up his deal and gave him a new one.

That's why Rosenhaus typically demands either a new contract or a trade. If he gets the trade, the new team has to agree to a new deal before the trade is finalized (ala Portis).

Quan wants guaranteed money because he saw last year what happens when he got hurt, suddenly the team that was planning to redo his deal was no longer interested in doing it at the time. Obviously the Cards would be crazy to extend his deal while he's literally rehabbing the knee, but Quan saw why he needs to get more upfront, there's no guarantees in his current situation.

 

[TheCardFan]

Originally Posted by Rocco
One thing about the Green quote caught my attention. Green said Boldin wanted a new contract and we want to give him a contract extension? I wonder what the difference between the two would be in terms of years, dollars, bonus, etc.

meaning he wont get as much (if any) in signing bonus which is guaranteed money

I don't think that is the case. Even in an extension, you get bonus money.

The Cardinals get screwed on both angles...

If they draft a loser high in Rd1 (Wadsworth, Knight, Bryant, etc..) they have to eat tons of money for a player that isn't contributing.

If they get lucky and snag a guy later in the draft and he plays like a 1st rounder (M. Smith, Boldin), they want a new deal.

I will support the Cardinals on this one. At the very most, Boldin should play out this year and get a new deal starting next year. I don't have a problem with tearing up the last year of the deal, but he must go out this year and have a year like he did in his rookie season to warrant the big dollars...1 year does not do it (nor 1 and 1/2 years).

 

[Russ Smith]

Also Q’s TD production is a good point. As great of a receiver he is he doesn’t score. Last I checked the team with the most points wins. In 2004 he only had 1 TD in 10 games or to put it another way 1 TD in 56 touches. Even in 2003 when he had 101 catches he only had 8 TDs or 1 in every 12.6 catches. Fitzgerald on the other hand scored every 7.25 touches. Who is worth more? How can all you Shipp haters overlook this part of Q's game?

That's all true but I'd argue that when you throw Fitz into the equation you have to remember Quan's impact on Fitz. Fitz scored 6 TD's in the games Quan played last year (6 in 10 games) and 2 in the games Quan didn't play (2 in 6). That means 9.6 TD's over 16 games with Quan, 5.3 without Quan. The reason is pretty obvious, Quan moves the chains allowing the Cards to get into the redzone, and then Fitz is virtually unstoppable in the redzone.

So yes Quan doesn't figure to be as effective at scoring TD's as Fitz, but he played a LARGE role in allowing Fitz to score those td's last year.

This is going to be one of those baseball arbitration hearings where the Pirates argue young Barry Bonds doesn't deserve a big raise because he doesn't have a ton of RBI's, and then Bonds agent says well duh he's hitting leadoff, if you move him to the 3 hole his RBI's will jump. Quan will have a bunch of stats proving his value, and the Cards will have a bunch proving their side, and hopefully they reach an agreement in the middle.

The one thing here is Quan does have some leverage, this team is clearly on the move up and NOT having Quan could really impact that, so the team has a vested interest in making him happy.

 

[TheCardFan]

The one thing here is Quan does have some leverage, this team is clearly on the move up and NOT having Quan could really impact that, so the team has a vested interest in making him happy.

I am certain that the Cardinals along with every other NFL team has learned that you can't let one player hold an entire team hostage.

I think Quan is terrific and I would love for him to be in AZ long term but if he plays hard ball...adios. He is protesting against the system. The Cardinals are one of 32 teams making up the system...His beef should be with the NFLPA too. These are the rules...it is just as ridiculous that unproven rookies get 30/40/50 million dollars without playing a down in the NFL.

Portis is a good example. He played two solid seasons with 1500yds in each season. Quan had a very nice rookie season, followed by an injury and an ok second season. IMO, he needs to post numbers this year comparable to his rookie season to have leverage and get what he wants.

 

[Rocco]

I am certain that the Cardinals along with every other NFL team has learned that you can't let one player hold an entire team hostage.

I think Quan is terrific and I would love for him to be in AZ long term but if he plays hard ball...adios. He is protesting against the system. The Cardinals are one of 32 teams making up the system...His beef should be with the NFLPA too. These are the rules...it is just as ridiculous that unproven rookies get 30/40/50 million dollars without playing a down in the NFL.

Portis is a good example. He played two solid seasons with 1500yds in each season. Quan had a very nice rookie season, followed by an injury and an ok second season. IMO, he needs to post numbers this year comparable to his rookie season to have leverage and get what he wants.

That's basically what happened last year. Boldin went to camp with the understanding that his contract would be redone. Then he was injured during camp and the new contract disappeared. He's not going to take that risk again.

 

[Russ Smith]

Portis is a good example. He played two solid seasons with 1500yds in each season. Quan had a very nice rookie season, followed by an injury and an ok second season. IMO, he needs to post numbers this year comparable to his rookie season to have leverage and get what he wants.

The problem there is Denver gambled, and proved, that they COULD just plug in someone in place of Portis and be ok. Droughns and Bell together(and Griffin) weren't as good as Portis, but they were close enough that Denver still had a great running game AND Bailey.

The Cards proved last year when Quan was out that it hurt the offense. Obviously we now have Warner, Arrington, hopefully a better OL, and hopefully a more experienced and healthy Fitz. So maybe we can just trade Quan and still have a good offense, but if I were Rosenhaus that would be my argument, your offense is better with him.

 

[TheCardFan]

That's basically what happened last year. Boldin went to camp with the understanding that his contract would be redone. Then he was injured during camp and the new contract disappeared. He's not going to take that risk again.

Is this factual or rumor?

Were the Cards talking extension or new deal last year?

 

[MadCardDisease]

So maybe we can just trade Quan and still have a good offense...

But I just got a brand new autographed Quan jersey. Stop talking this nonsense!

 

[TheCardFan]

The Cards proved last year when Quan was out that it hurt the offense. Obviously we now have Warner, Arrington, hopefully a better OL, and hopefully a more experienced and healthy Fitz. So maybe we can just trade Quan and still have a good offense, but if I were Rosenhaus that would be my argument, your offense is better with him.

Denver the team is not a good comparison. Same Coach, same OC, same system, same QB, etc...

Arizona was completely new with bascially a rookie QB, a rookie WR, a new Coach, a new system, a new OC, and huge OL problems.

 

[Rocco]

Is this factual or rumor?

Were the Cards talking extension or new deal last year?

I dont remember which one. Boldin ended up with neither.

 

[Russ Smith]

Is this factual or rumor?

Were the Cards talking extension or new deal last year?

They came out last year and said they were working on a new deal for him, we were told more than once that's why we had so much caproom last year, saving it for Quan.

 

[TheCardFan]

They came out last year and said they were working on a new deal for him, we were told more than once that's why we had so much caproom last year, saving it for Quan.

Was that pre-injury or post?

Does new deal mean extension or completely new?

Not being argumentative...just asking.

 

[john h]

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/cardinals/articles/0425boldin-ON.html

Hmm... I hope this doesn't grow into a mess.

Sure sounds just like where we are headed. Same deal with T.O in Philly. If he cannot live with the contract let him sit if he chooses. You cannot open the door he wants opened or else everyone else will be knocking on the same door. If he had a lousy year last year I am sure he would be there to give back some money.

 

[Russ Smith]

But I just got a brand new autographed Quan jersey. Stop talking this nonsense!

Last thing I want believe it or not, I just have felt from the day he hired Rosenhaus it was quite possible and almost likely he'll end up traded. The Cards don't back down in contract talks, Green isn't going to go to bat for keeping Quan because while he clearly likes him and appreciates him as a player, he can't get involved and say I gotta have this guy because that supports Rosenhaus' stance.

I hope we keep him, Green keeps saying he wants to and that's great, but with Rosenhaus involved there's always the specter of him trying to force a trade, that's how Rosenhaus works.