Boris Diaw Who/Updates

[JCSunsfan]

I'm not sure Diaw has the PG skills, but if he can run the pick and roll he'd be able to do the few minutes needed. Still, I'd like to find a better guy.

All the boy has to do is dribble up court and then get the ball in Amare's hands. If he can do that, he can get decent minutes with the Suns.

 

[Treesquid PhD]

Originally Posted by George O'Brien
I'm not sure Diaw has the PG skills, but if he can run the pick and roll he'd be able to do the few minutes needed. Still, I'd like to find a better guy.

you have to have some kind of jumpshot to execute the pick and roll or the defender won't bite on the switch.

 

[Treesquid PhD]

All the boy has to do is dribble up court and then get the ball in Amare's hands. If he can do that, he can get decent minutes with the Suns.

This is exactly is why I am so down on leandro, if he just got the ball to the correct finishers I would be more patient with his confidence ups and downs.

 

[cly2tw]

Think Stockton. He didn't handle the ball nearly as much as Nash did last season but would always finish as the league leader with over 10 assists.

Right, whereas Nash, in his first eight seasons (before rejoining the Suns), averaged more than eight assists only once.

Nash was terrific last year, and he will probably be very effective again, but he's no Stockton. I don't think that pure assist numbers are necessarily that meaningful, but Stockton was in a different class.

Speaking of Nash being terrific, by the way, our TiVo recorder has apparently just died on us. I had been saving Game 6 against the Mavericks to watch it again, but now it's gone. Pissed.

Stockton got most of his assists by all kind of halfcourt plays often involving him as cutter or screen setter before him getting the ball in his hand. Both Malone and Hornececk could make good decisions with balls in their hands.

Since Nash has been so effective driving through the lanes with one simple pick, both Dallas and Suns have been relying too much on that. When we speak of changes, he probably has to try to copy Stockton a bit anyway. JJ was actually not good a ball distributor last season. There is hope that Diaw can relieve Nash Hornecek used to doing for Stockton. We'll see.

Sorry to hear about your misfortune. But the comfort is, we still have a lot exciting games from the Suns ahead of us that will replace it in your archive.

 

[George O'Brien]

Assist stats are deceptive. Bibby ranks fairly low in assists (6.8 per game) because the Kings run a high post Princeton offense that doesn't emphasize the PG. Marbury gets more assists (8.1 per game), but gets most of his assists on kickouts. Marbury has more assists but IMHO Bibby is a better all round point guard even though both score a lot.

To me, the key to a great PG is the ability to get the ball to inside guys in position to score. That is why Stockton is so great and it is why Nash's reputation took such a jump this year.

 

[PhxGametime]

Boris Diaw is similar to JJ in a lot of ways but we're comparing his strengths to JJ not his overall game - nobody that averages less than 5 PTS in 18 minutes isn't a JJ clone... BUT


Diaw has similar ball handling, rebounding, passing ability, steals/blocks, height (6'8), and athleticism in limited minutes... if he averaged 40 minutes a game like JJ does - all these areas might even be better but doubtful he gets 40 minutes as a back-up PG

I've recently watched both of last years games and most of his minutes are at PG and he looked more of a playmaker than JJ but he just isn't the scorer... that might not mean much, JJ wasn't ever a great PG but Diaw and Barbosa at PG isn't much of a drop off.

The team will struggle at starting SG though but JJack has a game similar and IMO should be the starting SG, JJack averaged 1.7 3PTer made at 46% clip... both similar to JJ while on the Suns this year (not sure of overall #'s for Rockets and Suns together)... he's just not as good as JJ but I feel more comfortable with JJack than Bell starting...


Bell was a back-up on a horrible team and played nearly the same minutes but has been in the League much longer than Diaw (5-6 years older) - Diaw is labeled a unwilling scorer but his other numbers aren't bad. Passing, rebounding, Steals, blocks, with more height and better athleticism than Bell - right now and most people think the team is still strong without JJ but with Bell. Bell replaces JJ at SG and Diaw replaces JJ at PG... outside of scoring and shooting - Bell and Diaw are almost duplicates statwise. Diaw is a decent defender, but obviously doesn't have reputation as Bell...

I'm not sure why everybody is soooo down on Diaw (he is a pass first Point currently) and thinks Bell will actually give no drop off from JJ - compare Bell's and Diaw's numbers - the only area he's better in is scoring area's and scoring isn't all there is too game. If Diaw learns to shoot in 2-3 years, IMO he's going to be as good fit as Bell, although Diaw might not have as much toughness as Bell to become the defender but Diaw is a good defender himself.


I have almost 99.5% of every Suns game for 9 years and yes, I have no life and watch as many games as I can of the offseason moves... once the Trade is official I plan on watching Diaw's Rookie year and that same year of Bell's games. Then possibly this year's of Padgett's and if I have-to Pat Burke's Rookie year with Magic... when they sign. KT I am kind of more familiar with.

 

[George O'Brien]

JJax seemed to improve when he got more minutes, so I expect he will start. In recent years his three point shooting has improved to the point where it is a key part of his game, so I think the concern that the Sun's long ball game will go away is "premature".

Bell started 32 games for the Jazz last season and beat out more highly touted Gordan Giricek and Matt Harpring for the off guard position. All the reports I've read say he is much much faster than Q and somewhat faster than JJ. I like him coming off the bench but I think he could start in a small ball lineup.

With Diaw, the only way he plays is as point guard. Since JJ was at most "adequate", there is a real chance Diaw might turn out to be an improvement in the minutes when Nash is not on the court.

The most important aspect of it is that Diaw is a vastly better defender than Nash. When teamed with Bell, the Suns may be able to press opposing guards in a way they were never able to do last season. Neither JJ nor Leandro were all that good at push the ball and Diaw might actually be an improvement.

I think the key will be how well Diaw can go to the basket on the pick and roll. Nash's style involves a short fall away jumper, but others like Marbury take it to the basket on the P&R. Obviously being able to get the ball to Amare when the opponent makes the switch is crucial, but having a 6'8" PG means that small opposing point guards will have matchup problems down low.

For a variety of reasons, JJ did not really run the pick and roll. I blame some of that on a failure of the Suns to work him at PG last year at training camp. One of my suggestions for the upcoming season was to really emphasize getting JJ involved in running the pick and roll because there was no way for Parker to respond.

If Diaw can learn to run the pick and roll, the time with Nash off the floor might be more than just "hold on and hope." I just wish I was more confident he can do the job.

 

[Joe Mama]

George, Diaw is a good defender, but he is 6-9. He'll struggle against the better point guards in the NBA. I can't remember who it was, but I know he struggled to contain one of the smaller, quicker point guards in the summer leagues.

From what I've seen Diaw has a nice-looking shot. It's just not consistent. JJ did struggle shooting long-range his rookie season (27.3%) and the year before last (30.5%), but that's nothing compared to Diaw's long-range struggles (23.1% and 18% his first two seasons). Of course he's only taken 76 three-point shots in his two-year NBA career.

In the couple summer league games I saw him he was a reluctant but able scorer. He made almost every shot he took including the one three-pointer I can remember. He was very impressive leading the fast break. I would go as far as to say that Nash was the only guy from last year's Phoenix Suns team better than Diaw in that department.

Diaw needs to get a little more aggressive. He needs to improve his long-range shooting. He needs to cut down on his turnovers. Even though he averaged 6 assists per 48 minutes last season (JJ averaged 4.3) he had too many turnovers. He averaged 3.5 turnovers per 48 minutes (JJ averaged 2.2). of course it wouldn't surprise me to see Diaw's assists increase and his turnovers decreased playing on a much better team, especially playing alongside Amare and Kurt Thomas.

Joe Mama

 

[PhxGametime]

Boris Diaw is the player, I like coming to the Suns the most from what I've seen... KT will help rebounding but he's more of a position rebounder (not exactly exciting) and Bell is 1 tough hardnosed SG but I don't see him being the exciting 3PT shooter that Q was, more of a Marion (oh a 3PTer, that's cool, now we're up by 35) while JJ and Q (IN YOUR FACE :headpump: 35 PT LEAD BABY)... hmmmm well I completely forgot what I was going to say.

 

[sunsfn]

Boris Diaw is the player, I like coming to the Suns the most from what I've seen... KT will help rebounding but he's more of a position rebounder (not exactly exciting) and Bell is 1 tough hardnosed SG but I don't see him being the exciting 3PT shooter that Q was, more of a Marion (oh a 3PTer, that's cool, now we're up by 35) while JJ and Q (IN YOUR FACE :headpump: 35 PT LEAD BABY)... hmmmm well I completely forgot what I was going to say.

You could have just hit the return button and not the submit reply and not had to suffer this embarassment.....none the less, I am glad you embarrassed yourself because it made me laugh and that is a good thing!

 

[George O'Brien]

Boris Diaw is the player, I like coming to the Suns the most from what I've seen... KT will help rebounding but he's more of a position rebounder (not exactly exciting)

When compared to the excitement created by opponents taking four shots on a possession, I can live without that kind of excitement...

and Bell is 1 tough hardnosed SG but I don't see him being the exciting 3PT shooter that Q was

If by exciting, you mean having absolutely no idea if the ball is going in, then yes Q was exciting. Q shot a lot of three pointers, but hit only 35.8%. Bell shot fewer but hit 40.3%. Overall, Q shot just 38.9% due to taking so many threes, while Bell hit 45.4% of his shots.

It is true that Q averaged more points, 14.9 ppg to Bell's 12.3; but that is entirely due to his playing more minutes (35.9 to just 28.4). On a per minute basis, Q averaged .415 points per minute while Bell averaged .433 points per minute. Even more than that, Bell's 12.3 ppg was 13.25% of the Jazz scoring while Q was only a slightly higher percentage of Suns scoring at 13.49 while averaging 7.5 more minutes a game.

Q had the swagger, but I think Bells productivity on offense was at least equivalent with a lot greater efficiency. Added to his vastly superior defense and I think Bell is a major upgrade over Q and is much more likely to stay within the offense.

 

[PhxGametime]

Well what I'm saying is JJ is likened to LeBron James compared to Bell that is comparable to a John Stockton type of player... Bell is known for being a defender but other than him getting SUPER physical and using the hand check to his advantage a lot - he doesn't make athletic plays or no blocks/steals. Most of the time, I'm looking at him thinking he's Charles Oakley and well that just doesn't appeal to me as much.

I like defense, I've been a Suns fan since 1st Grade and a Wildcat fan since their first Final Four with Sean Elliott (I'm only 30) mah dad never liked ASU and started following them that year, anywho but the Suns added Knicks type of players of the 90's or was it the 80's, not exciting defenders. I really like athletic plays - regardless if it's a block, a steal, an above the crowd rebound, etc. Stoudemire and Marion might not be the best defenders in League but they make exciting plays and have potential to be defenders - Bell and KT play tough, grab you, kick you, toughen you up a little and you know what - maybe that's what the team needs but I don't find that type of play exciting...


While watching Bell, I couln't help but say, man this guy plays like the type of defender this board complains about with Steve Nash. IMO JJ was a good mix with the athletic type of defenders the team had, the guy is built like a PF and not many teams are going to post him at 1-3 positions and he's not easily penetrated on and has better athleticism than Bell... watching Bell manhandle our team wasn't exactly exciting regardless if I know he's now on Suns team. The guy had like 3 fouls from pushing our players in less than 2 minutes from cross screens and they had to talk to players (at least that's how I remember it)... that was the first game I watched and he was a little more athletic/active than I thought but he does average as many fouls as Jake Voskuhl does (in more minutes but still)...


Put it this way, Bell's offense reminds me of Casey Jacobsen, strictly on the perimeter, maybe a better curling around screens with catch and shoot; and a drive here and there; and he can finish better but JJ's offense was soooo smooth, All-Star quality.

I hardly like to bash Suns players but this offseason has just upset me a lot, during season, I will stick to complaining about the refs but the team could've done soooo much better IMO and I'm sticking to that...

 

[George O'Brien]

I guess we will see if getting more physical guys makes a difference.

As a plan, the Suns hoped to keep JJ. I have no doubt the Suns messed up a year ago. As it is, JJ has been surrounded by people telling him he can become a superstar if only he could get out from under the shadow of Amare and Nash. They're wrong, but it seems like JJ really believes this and this treatened the chemistry of the team - not to mention its financial viability.

The Suns did not sign Bell to replace JJ but to provide depth and someone who could stop Manu. JJ sure couldn't. As it is, he's going to be a lot more important than the Suns had expected when they got his agreement.

If anything, Bell was brought in to replace Q and I think he will be a lot more effective than Q. Some of this is that I really did not care for Q's game. If a guy is going to shoot a zillion three pointers, he' better be able to hit more than 36% of them.

Getting KT was all about releaving Amare of the burden of being the main low post defender and improving the team's rebounding. I like Hunter, but Hunter could not get the job done and his incredibly bad foul shooting meant he could never be on the court at crunch time. Hunter is a below average rebounder with minimal offensive skills and lacks the strength to keep people out of paint. Except for shot blocking, everything about KT's game is better than Hunter's.

Could the Suns have done better? Maybe. But these were solid moves to make the team better in the playoffs.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

I agree with most everything you said George, except I do believe that Joe could become a superstar in Atlanta. Of course, I thought he could become one here in a few years too.

 

[George O'Brien]

I agree with most everything you said George, except I do believe that Joe could become a superstar in Atlanta. Of course, I thought he could become one here in a few years too.

I think he will be good, but I'm not sure he's prepared for the kind of defensive attention he will receive in Atlanta. He bloomed last season due to hard work and lots of open looks at the basket. He's not the same kind of athlete that Kobe and T-Mac are, so I would doubt he could reach THAT level. He might get to the Ray Allen level, but that remains to be proven.

To me, the level I see him at is that of Rip Hamilton. Really good players, but not consistently dominating.

 

[Treesquid PhD]

I guess we will see if getting more physical guys makes a difference.

As a plan, the Suns hoped to keep JJ. I have no doubt the Suns messed up a year ago. As it is, JJ has been surrounded by people telling him he can become a superstar if only he could get out from under the shadow of Amare and Nash. They're wrong, but it seems like JJ really believes this and this treatened the chemistry of the team - not to mention its financial viability.

The Suns did not sign Bell to replace JJ but to provide depth and someone who could stop Manu. JJ sure couldn't. As it is, he's going to be a lot more important than the Suns had expected when they got his agreement.

If anything, Bell was brought in to replace Q and I think he will be a lot more effective than Q. Some of this is that I really did not care for Q's game. If a guy is going to shoot a zillion three pointers, he' better be able to hit more than 36% of them.

Getting KT was all about releaving Amare of the burden of being the main low post defender and improving the team's rebounding. I like Hunter, but Hunter could not get the job done and his incredibly bad foul shooting meant he could never be on the court at crunch time. Hunter is a below average rebounder with minimal offensive skills and lacks the strength to keep people out of paint. Except for shot blocking, everything about KT's game is better than Hunter's.

Could the Suns have done better? Maybe. But these were solid moves to make the team better in the playoffs.

Honestly there are two big wild cards for me this season.
1. How good is Amare going to be after this off season
2. How good of a player is Thomas and will he be a differnce maker or have an AC Green type tenure with the Suns.

I am am fairly confident Amare can handle the increased attention, however, he will need to really become an elite big man passer out of the post becasue teams will be less worried about Scott Padget, Raja Bell and Jim Jackson anchoring the perimeter than they would have been with JJ, Q, and JJax. Thus Amare will be seeing a lot of double teams I just hope these guys hit their shots.

I guess that really just leaves it up to Thomas to not be AC Green and provide no real value other than meaningless statistics like who won the rebounding number in the box score.

 

[Joe Mama]

Honestly there are two big wild cards for me this season.
1. How good is Amare going to be after this off season
2. How good of a player is Thomas and will he be a differnce maker or have an AC Green type tenure with the Suns.

I am am fairly confident Amare can handle the increased attention, however, he will need to really become an elite big man passer out of the post becasue teams will be less worried about Scott Padget, Raja Bell and Jim Jackson anchoring the perimeter than they would have been with JJ, Q, and JJax. Thus Amare will be seeing a lot of double teams I just hope these guys hit their shots.

I guess that really just leaves it up to Thomas to not be AC Green and provide no real value other than meaningless statistics like who won the rebounding number in the box score.

Teams will have the same trouble leaving Scott Padgett, Bell, and Jim Jackson that they did leading the group last year. Next year's group will also make teams pay for leading the perimeter. Diaw is the only guy teams may be able to gamble leaving.

Joe Mama

 

[George O'Brien]

Teams will have the same trouble leaving Scott Padgett, Bell, and Jim Jackson that they did leading the group last year. Next year's group will also make teams pay for leading the perimeter. Diaw is the only guy teams may be able to gamble leaving.

Joe Mama

Last year the Suns focused on spacing and had Nash doing the kick outs. With Amare becoming more of a passer, especially from the high post, the Suns might be better off using cutters rather than just spot up shooters. Cutters might not always get the ball, but they force the other team to react, which Amare can then exploit.

Marion is only a 33% three shooter, but shoots 53.7% inside the arc (obviously that includes a lot of fast break points). Diaw shot 18.8% for three but 47% inside the arc. Get these guys the ball closer to the basket.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

I think he will be good, but I'm not sure he's prepared for the kind of defensive attention he will receive in Atlanta. He bloomed last season due to hard work and lots of open looks at the basket. He's not the same kind of athlete that Kobe and T-Mac are, so I would doubt he could reach THAT level. He might get to the Ray Allen level, but that remains to be proven.

To me, the level I see him at is that of Rip Hamilton. Really good players, but not consistently dominating.

Those 2 months after Marbury was traded and before Amare came back showed what Joe could do if he were to lead a team. That is why last summer I said that if Joe could just prove consistancy this year he would get a big contract. Teams know he had a role on the Suns, but saw what he could do if he was the man - that is why Atlanta was willing to give him a big contract. It wasn't just based on last season.

 

[George O'Brien]

Those 2 months after Marbury was traded and before Amare came back showed what Joe could do if he were to lead a team. That is why last summer I said that if Joe could just prove consistancy this year he would get a big contract. Teams know he had a role on the Suns, but saw what he could do if he was the man - that is why Atlanta was willing to give him a big contract. It wasn't just based on last season.

But if they paid attention, they'd notice JJ's stats dropped off once the word got out about him. Some people blamed it on the return of Amare, but his shooting was not that great until late. This was part of the reason that some people were concerned whether he had turned the corner.

 

[Joe Mama]

Those 2 months after Marbury was traded and before Amare came back showed what Joe could do if he were to lead a team. That is why last summer I said that if Joe could just prove consistancy this year he would get a big contract. Teams know he had a role on the Suns, but saw what he could do if he was the man - that is why Atlanta was willing to give him a big contract. It wasn't just based on last season.

I have no doubt that JJ can put up big numbers on a bad team. I think he will get about 24, 5, and 5 or 6 next year for Atlanta, but the team is going to stink. Like George,, I don't see JJ as a superstar player. I think he lacks the mentality and athleticism. I can see him as a good second option though.

Joe Mama

 

[devilalum]

I have no doubt that JJ can put up big numbers on a bad team. I think he will get about 24, 5, and 5 or 6 next year for Atlanta, but the team is going to stink. Like George,, I don't see JJ as a superstar player. I think he lacks the mentality and athleticism. I can see him as a good second option though.

Joe Mama

I also believe this to be true.

His lack of athleticism is what got his face broke. If Marion had dunked on the same play he would have hung on the rim then drop carelessly to the ground after the contact. JJ was not high enough to get a good enough grip to hang on the rim. I've seen JJ dunk in traffic but he's not all that athletic when you compare him to all the other star 2 guards around the league.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I have no doubt that JJ can put up big numbers on a bad team. I think he will get about 24, 5, and 5 or 6 next year for Atlanta, but the team is going to stink. Like George,, I don't see JJ as a superstar player. I think he lacks the mentality and athleticism. I can see him as a good second option though.

Joe Mama

I just don't see JJ as an effective full-time pg. He's an ideal combo guard. He plays that starting 2 well, plus he can slide over to pg in a pinch. If JJ has to run the floor he has to focus on the other players too much and moves away from some of his offensive creativity.

Its too bad he didn't see it this way. 6/60 and keep JJ would have been the ideal.

Oh well, nothing we can do about it now. Diaw does give us another 6-8 player with guard skills. The Suns really wanted him. They really wanted JJ when we got him from Boston. I wonder what they see in Diaw?

 

[SweetD]

I took a look at his game by game stats. Looks like if he gets some good minutes this kid can play well. Sure he is inconsistent but he could be a very capable back up PG and he can also play 3 positions, 4 in a Suns system. http://www.nba.com/playerfile/boris_diaw/game_by_game_stats.html

 

[JCSunsfan]

I took a look at his game by game stats. Looks like if he gets some good minutes this kid can play well. Sure he is inconsistent but he could be a very capable back up PG and he can also play 3 positions, 4 in a Suns system. http://www.nba.com/playerfile/boris_diaw/game_by_game_stats.html

Actually, those stats show alot more promise than I thought.

His minutes are all over the board, no consistency whatsoever. Thats a coaching thing. Its hard to imagine how he could develop without minutes being consistent. Maybe there were alot of garbage minutes with ATL last year.