Brian Hoyer news

kerouac9

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CardsFan88, you sound like one of those libertarians that don't make much money in the real world. I can tell you for a fact that for someone who's made $30M in a three-year period, $2M feels like it's not enough to live on.

And you're foolish if you think that the mega-rich or even the affluent particularly care about 6% inflation or hyper-inflation (neither of which are going to happen, for reasons I can tell you if you care to understand), because they own hard assets that are going to appreciate in value, not currency. And no, rich people aren't putting their money in gold, they're putting it into actual things, and if there's hyperinflation (and there won't be), a thing still has value equivalent to the money supply.
 

GuernseyCard

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$30M paid out, 40% of which was paid in taxes, another 5% of which went to his agent. Is $15M going to be enough to last him the rest of his life, and his family? Maybe if he can return 18% of that entire capital for the rest of his life, but remember that these guys don't have any marketable skills besides playing football.

When you get $30M in paychecks over three years, it's pretty hard to settle for $2M, especially when you're scheduled to make $11M.

How would you feel if your employer came to you tomorrow demanding an 80% pay cut or you're fired?

If he payed 40% off the top in taxes, he's in serious need of a new tax lawyer.

And I've read that the going rate for agents is under 5%.

No one denies $$$ as a serious consideration in the these matters, but where, pray tell, did you get the $2M figure?
 
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Jake6233

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Jason La Canfora
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The Cardinals put a 2nd round tender on QB Brian Hoyer, who would have had plenty of action if on the low tender. Short supply of FA QBs

Not surprising but its official
 

JeffGollin

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Jason La Canfora
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The Cardinals put a 2nd round tender on QB Brian Hoyer, who would have had plenty of action if on the low tender. Short supply of FA QBs

Not surprising but its official
LaCanfora saying it makes it only 95% "official."
 

kerouac9

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If he payed 40% off the top in taxes, he's in serious need a new tax lawyer.

And I've read that the going rate for agents is under 5%.

No one denies $$$ as a serious consideration in the these matters, but where, pray tell, did you get the $2M figure?

Not much a tax lawyer can do. This is entirely income, and I believe that "bonuses" are taxed at a different (higher) rate than even salary is.

There are lots of ways that people with wealth can fudge and manage their tax bill, but there's little that individuals with high incomes that come from separate entities can do to shelter their income.

The effective federal tax rate on $10MY income is about 25%, but there are state and local taxes to consider (although he probably has an official residence in Texas, so I don't know how that pencils out).
 

CardsFan88

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CardsFan88, you sound like one of those libertarians that don't make much money in the real world. I can tell you for a fact that for someone who's made $30M in a three-year period, $2M feels like it's not enough to live on.

And you're foolish if you think that the mega-rich or even the affluent particularly care about 6% inflation or hyper-inflation (neither of which are going to happen, for reasons I can tell you if you care to understand), because they own hard assets that are going to appreciate in value, not currency. And no, rich people aren't putting their money in gold, they're putting it into actual things, and if there's hyperinflation (and there won't be), a thing still has value equivalent to the money supply.

Actually my idiotic party controls the presidency.

A fact of emotion. Which isn't exactly a real reason to stand behind. But it does beg that question. Why is it that people with more money should be able to turn up their noses to insane amount of money others would kill for and be seen as it being legitimate?

Not having money to experience it, does not in any way mean I can't understand and empathize/criticize the dynamics of that situation. It's quite simple to understand.

A person who can't see 2 million as alot of money has his brain warped. It's not a legitimate reason.

It may be in effect, a real event that occurs often, I give you that point entirely, I just don't consider it legitimate, nor is it something that has to be that way.

A person can keep themselves grounded, and funny enough, I actually think a guy like Kolb might be more or less one of those guys. Just seems to me to be the type. But I can be wrong. Or the prospect of a pay cut might not even be offered to him.

The standard is hard, but it is correct, you don't let a bunch of money alter your viewpoint of money. It's one thing to alter say tipping behavior, or loosen up some buying habits because you have more money, but turning ones nose up at 2 million is quite an egotistical thing to do, especially given Kolb's history. Especially given the climate we're in financially as a country/world.

The problem with hard assets is people with money have to buy them before it hits. Not every rich person is going to buy them. Basically on the ride up of hyperinflation, if it happens, the rich get a few extra rolls of the dice at the Vegas casinos. They have an extra shot to 'own' something hard, whether it be land, PM's, whatever that has a shot to appreciate, but in that process, a process that is created by the event itself, most rich people today will lose that bet. Not only that, then you become the hunted, and it's a lot messier then most realize. A single gun won't protect one from a mob. I could go on and on about how things would be different under a different environment.

But still I always ponder, how much in hard assets will the last roll of toilet paper in a particular region sell for? So hard assets only buy you what is available in a collapsed society such as that.

If it doesn't happen, he has plenty of money to live on. So my position is one that approaches both ends. It's cognizant of the fact that the last time it hit the entire GDP of a nation, if one person owned that much, wouldn't buy a loaf of bread five years later. On the other hand, if it doesn't, he has plenty of money, even if (and it is an if) his mind has been twisted by being rich. So you're right, rich people might not care about 6 percent or 10,000 percent, but THAT is foolish. I concede they probably don't care, but point out correctly that that is truly the foolish position.

But I simply don't accept the reasoning that someone who is rich should legitimately be lauded as correct for turning down such money. I entirely think and know that it indeed happens. I just think it's rightly, foolish. Now if he thinks he's worth more elsewhere, fine, but I too on that think it's wishful thinking that anyone would give him more than a 1 or 2 year show me contract for around the veteran league minimum to 2x that amount.

Actually I don't make much money, but that's because I choose to wipe my dad's butt for a living, rather than use my multiple degrees graduating Summa Cum Laude. Not that the economy is looking for many people without 10 years experience in whatever field. What I do know is that I've had times in my life where I felt like I had a huge amount of money for my age, yet it amounted to nothing as I was beaten down from 9-9 days of work and school, plus work on Saturday. So I learned early on money is not everything, especially not when its value is a moving yard stick of illusion. I choose to make 10k instead of looking for 35-50k to start. That's a choice I make. Though it wasn't long after I graduated everything tanked, and here in the Phx area, there isn't 60 pages of job ads like there was before then.

I too understand how hyperinflation could or could not happen. Saying it won't happen and that it is impossible is only a guess, just like saying that it will happen. Because the pressure is one way, and the only thing those with the hands on the lever can do is to force the other. But again that's a different discussion we should leave for another section of the board.

I just think in the wide range of possibilities of what can happen, since the possibilities of what might happen are so large and the threat real it is correct to postulate a wider spectrum of possibilities, that in either case, what Kolb would potentially be bickering over wouldn't be affected by the amount he's talking about. Either he has enough, or it won't be anywhere near it. (In other words if the football discussion is about what Kolb should do as viewpoint of the future, then such a wide range should be considered, and in that range I have imo determined that the difference being used as justification of taking an alternate path amount to no difference in effect).

I understand and appreciate your presence on this board and as a fellow fan, so I'm not trying to attack you, merely pointing out what I see as a general consensus I see regarding such mindsets where we as a society tend to allow rich people the ability to act stupidly based on false emotion and think it to be ok. Basically more of an examining of the philosophical and societal question applied to Kolb being the example.
 
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kerouac9

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I'm not placing a moral judgement as to whether or not Kolb thinking $2M salary is a slap in the face--or asserting that he would. I'm merely saying that thinking that it's perfectly reasonable to demand that someone accept an 80% reduction in compensation is probably going to get a negative response, whether that's going from $10MY to $2MY or from $10H to $2H.

There are tiers of concern when it comes to money (I work in private equity, so I work with a lot of rich and ultra-rich people). People of affluence rarely think about those below them on the income ladder (whether they should is a question that is separate from this discussion), but they tend to think constantly about those above them. If you don't have a private jet, but you know people who do, then owning or having unlimited access to a private jet is pretty important to you.

If we can agree that most active athletes have little sense of the "value" of money (Vince Young's $500K birthday party, etc.), then it makes some sense that money is only valued in terms of what others around you are making.

To bring this discussion back to football, if Kevin Kolb sees that Matt Moore is getting $4M a year to be a backup quarterback, it probably doesn't make much sense to Kolb to take half that amount to be a starter. Especially when as a starter he's gotten his brains beaten in to the point that he's only been able to play in some 20 games the past three seasons.
 

juza76

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with hoyer tender and wilson cut ..they are now 6 million undder the cap--they cant do too much,,they need more roster cuts
 

oaken1

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I'm not placing a moral judgement as to whether or not Kolb thinking $2M salary is a slap in the face--or asserting that he would. I'm merely saying that thinking that it's perfectly reasonable to demand that someone accept an 80% reduction in compensation is probably going to get a negative response, whether that's going from $10MY to $2MY or from $10H to $2H.

There are tiers of concern when it comes to money (I work in private equity, so I work with a lot of rich and ultra-rich people). People of affluence rarely think about those below them on the income ladder (whether they should is a question that is separate from this discussion), but they tend to think constantly about those above them. If you don't have a private jet, but you know people who do, then owning or having unlimited access to a private jet is pretty important to you.

If we can agree that most active athletes have little sense of the "value" of money (Vince Young's $500K birthday party, etc.), then it makes some sense that money is only valued in terms of what others around you are making.

To bring this discussion back to football, if Kevin Kolb sees that Matt Moore is getting $4M a year to be a backup quarterback, it probably doesn't make much sense to Kolb to take half that amount to be a starter. Especially when as a starter he's gotten his brains beaten in to the point that he's only been able to play in some 20 games the past three seasons.



Kolb would be butthurt no doubt.......but after a cool off period, he may see things from a different perspective.

IMO, it is quite possibly why the pending pay cut has been getting so much publicity...to give Kevin time to adjust to the idea....
 

MadCardDisease

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with hoyer tender and wilson cut ..they are now 6 million undder the cap--they cant do too much,,they need more roster cuts

I think we will see more. Some options include:

Kevin Kolb $7.5M
Kerry Rhodes $6M
Early Doucet $2M
Beanie Wells $1.47M
Jeff King $1.55M
Jay Feely $1.5M
 

kerouac9

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Kolb would be butthurt no doubt.......but after a cool off period, he may see things from a different perspective.

IMO, it is quite possibly why the pending pay cut has been getting so much publicity...to give Kevin time to adjust to the idea....

I doubt Kevin even hear's what's going on. He's back home in Texas with his new baby, hunting boars with his bear hands (or whatever), and deciding on what kind of ******* facial hair organization he's going to infuriate me with next season.

Players tend to leave this stuff to their agents to take care of. That's why they have agents.
 

SeattleCard

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As long as Skeletor and Lindley are cut, I'm happy all around. I don't think I can bare to see either take another snap.

I'm good with Hoyer as one of our QB's. Let's see what he can do.
 

AZCardsWin

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Heres my take on QB Brian Hoyer. In his short stint with the Cardinals he seemed way ahead of Skelton and Lindley. Probably related to the coaching he got from Bill Belicheck and playing behind one of the best ever QBs in Tom Brady for a few years. If you watch that 49ers game, Hoyer did his reads and got rid of the ball so fast. He was aware of the pocket and showed some mobility too.

I think keeping Hoyer is very smart as a #3 , maybe even #2 QB. Now lets restructure Kolb and draft Geno Smith! That would probably be the best QB depth Arizona has had in a long time.

Go Cardinals!
Tim in NJ
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az jam

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I like the move of protecting Hoyer at $2 million and getting a 2nd round pick if someone goes after him.
 

juza76

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I think we will see more. Some options include:

Kevin Kolb $7.5M
Kerry Rhodes $6M
Early Doucet $2M
Beanie Wells $1.47M
Jeff King $1.55M
Jay Feely $1.5M
rhodes must restructure his contract,i heard no talking between kolb anc cardinals about restructuring,urbain said kolb wont have tthe actual salary..seem to me he will be cut..i will cut also feely..and let him be part of nflpa
 
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kerouac9

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rhodes must restructure his contract,i heard no talking between kolb anc cardinals about restructuring,urbain said kolb wont have tthe actual salary..seems to be he will be cut..i will cut also feely..and let him be part of nflpa

Rhodes needs to be extended, not restructured. He's on the last year of his deal; there's nothing to restructure.

Hoyer at $2M effectively makes him the #2 QB. It'll be telling what we end up signing Stanton for. If it's between $4M and $6M, he's going to be the presumed starter through the OTAs.
 

MadCardDisease

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Rhodes needs to be extended, not restructured. He's on the last year of his deal; there's nothing to restructure.

The question is what is it going to take to extend Rhodes? I have a feeling that he is going to want a big payday with considerable garentees.
 

az jam

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Rhodes needs to be extended, not restructured. He's on the last year of his deal; there's nothing to restructure.

Hoyer at $2M effectively makes him the #2 QB. It'll be telling what we end up signing Stanton for. If it's between $4M and $6M, he's going to be the presumed starter through the OTAs.

If its that much you can be sure that Kolb will be dropped.
 

juza76

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The question is what is it going to take to extend Rhodes? I have a feeling that he is going to want a big payday with considerable garentees.
i think if they have problem with cap .or if they will sign a good safety..he will be released too..he will be 31 next season..6 milion is a lot
 

Buckybird

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Hoyer at $2M effectively makes him the #2 QB. It'll be telling what we end up signing Stanton for. If it's between $4M and $6M, he's going to be the presumed starter through the OTAs.

IMO both of those moves are simply outrageous, especially given neither has done jack squat or rarely started real NFL games. But one positive is that it essentially ends either Lindley or Skeltons Big Red career which is a good thing. I simply look at Stanton as nothing more than Wiz adding BSP because he knew him from the Stealers!

If I were running this team & we were looking for a younger potential NFL starter I would trade for Colt McCoy & add Chase Daniel & let them fight it out. I still think Colt can play in this league if given a chance.
 

kerouac9

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The question is what is it going to take to extend Rhodes? I have a feeling that he is going to want a big payday with considerable garentees.

Yeah, maybe. I mean, I've said before that I'm comfortable with extending him for two years, $18M, with $10M guaranteed and $2M additional money right now. So the contract could be structured like this:

2013: $1M salary, $3M roster bonus, $4M signing bonus ($5.3M cap charge)
2014: $500K workout bonus, $4.5M salary ($6.3M cap charge)
2015: $500K workout bonus, $4.5M salary ($6.3M cap charge)

It frees up some cap space and gives us a safety we know can play at a high level for at least two more years. We could cut him in 2014 and only be on the hook for $2.6M in dead money.

IMO both of those moves are simply outrageous, especially given neither has done jack squat or rarely started real NFL games. But one positive is that it essentially ends either Lindley or Skeltons Big Red career which is a good thing. I simply look at Stanton as nothing more than Wiz adding BSP because he knew him from the Stealers!

If I were running this team & we were looking for a younger potential NFL starter I would trade for Colt McCoy & add Chase Daniel & let them fight it out. I still think Colt can play in this league if given a chance.

We'll likely bring 4 QBs to camp. I expect they're going to be Lindley, Hoyer, Stanton, and a rookie. That means that one of those guys is going to be your opening-day starter, and another of them are probably going to be your mid-season starter.

And another of them are you going be your late-season starter.

2013 is going to be a terrible year for Arizona Cardinals football.
 

juza76

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IMO both of those moves are simply outrageous, especially given neither has done jack squat or rarely started real NFL games. But one positive is that it essentially ends either Lindley or Skeltons Big Red career which is a good thing. I simply look at Stanton as nothing more than Wiz adding BSP because he knew him from the Stealers!

If I were running this team & we were looking for a younger potential NFL starter I would trade for Colt McCoy & add Chase Daniel & let them fight it out. I still think Colt can play in this league if given a chance.
Mccoy is not even near to the type of qb arians likes
 

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Rhodes needs to be extended, not restructured. He's on the last year of his deal; there's nothing to restructure.

Hoyer at $2M effectively makes him the #2 QB. It'll be telling what we end up signing Stanton for. If it's between $4M and $6M, he's going to be the presumed starter through the OTAs.

Who says we're signing Stanton for any amount?
 

GatorAZ

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We'll likely bring 4 QBs to camp. I expect they're going to be Lindley, Hoyer, Stanton, and a rookie. That means that one of those guys is going to be your opening-day starter, and another of them are probably going to be your mid-season starter.

And another of them are you going be your late-season starter.

2013 is going to be a terrible year for Arizona Cardinals football.

If Hoyer is around we might as well pass on Stanton. Keep one of Skelton/Lindley (they make peanuts) as the 3rd stringer behind the rookie and Hoyer.

Agree about another tough year especially playing in the toughest division in football.
 
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