Bruce Arians - “Arizona Was Going to Draft Deshaun Watson”

[Solar7]

I don’t think Wentz has been great or anything, but man it’s only so much you can do when your best two WRs is a RB & a guy that was a QB in college just 3 years ago. His WR group is honestly worse than ours last year. He has a solid TE in Ertz & a inconsistent, but talented TE in Goedert.

I don’t think he needs elite talent, but not downright garbage.

This might not mean much, but I think if you put Wentz on the Rams, they would be leading or at least tied in the entire conference right now.

Over the course of his career, he's had Alshon Jeffery healthy, and Ertz is an elite tight end. His running game has been strong, and he has a very good offensive line, along with a strong defense. At least in general.

I can't stop questioning a guy who hasn't ever actually played a playoff game while his team has taken home a ring and some playoff wins without him on the field. In another thread, this would be the opposite of you and I arguing about Rivers, hah.

 

[DVontel]

Over the course of his career, he's had Alshon Jeffery healthy, and Ertz is an elite tight end. His running game has been strong, and he has a very good offensive line, along with a strong defense. At least in general.

I can't stop questioning a guy who hasn't ever actually played a playoff game while his team has taken home a ring and some playoff wins without him on the field. In another thread, this would be the opposite of you and I arguing about Rivers, hah.

Sure but healthy Alshon sucks now. I think Ertz is very good, not exactly “elite” with the likes of Kittle & Kelce. Running game has just been adequate. Won’t necessarily disagree with offensive line. Absolutely not with the defense. Hell, the Eagles this year might have the worst group of CBs in the entire league.

Wentz has had his faults this year, no doubt. Especially against New England. He was awful that game. I still think he’s a solid QB & will get better & maybe reach the highs of 2017 again.

Rivers is a known playoff choker. Wentz is still an unknown. It is what it is, lol.

 

[DVontel]

Bridgewater was a disaster for the team that gave up picks for him. When talking the draft, I don't talk about the future of the player that he didn't play for. If Kyler Murray leaves us in three years and wins seven championships with the Jaguars, but none for us, he will have been a bad pick for the Cardinals.

Guy(BW) has a true obsessed hatred with Kyler. It’s hilarious.

 

[Solar7]

Sure but healthy Alshon sucks now. I think Ertz is very good, not exactly “elite” with the likes of Kittle & Kelce. Running game has just been adequate. Won’t necessarily disagree with offensive line. Absolutely not with the defense. Hell, the Eagles this year might have the worst group of CBs in the entire league.

Wentz has had his faults this year, no doubt. Especially against New England. He was awful that game. I still think he’s a solid QB & will get better & maybe reach the highs of 2017 again.

Rivers is a known playoff choker. Wentz is still an unknown. It is what it is, lol.

Yeah, that's the only reason I put Wentz as iffy. I loved that MVP-esque season, but can he replicate it after the injury, with a team that isn't as talented? Time will tell.

Guy(BW) has a true obsessed hatred with Kyler. It’s hilarious.

He didn't mention him here, that was me.

 

[GatorAZ]

Harry, I love your takes almost everywhere else, but looking at this one as Keim’s fault doesn’t make any sense. Are you proposing we should have given up a first round pick to move up 1-3 spots? The fan base would have rioted, we would have been laughing stocks... for QBs that at the time, people were heavily questioning.

We just didn’t have the right position to make a move. Plenty of people were questioning if Mahomes and Watson would even go in the first round.

And at the end of the day, neither of the teams trading back were going to turn down a future first round pick for whatever we were offering.

Why would we have had to give up a 1st to move up 1-3 spots? We were sitting at 15 not 25 like Houston.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Bridgewater was a disaster for the team that gave up picks for him. When talking the draft, I don't talk about the future of the player that he didn't play for. If Kyler Murray leaves us in three years and wins seven championships with the Jaguars, but none for us, he will have been a bad pick for the Cardinals.

That’s faulty reasoning. The pick would have been excellent. The team management letting him go or not surrounding him with a cast that could win 7 championships would be at fault.

 

[GatorAZ]

Wentz can't stay healthy and hasn't really elevated his team, as is one of your biggest concerns about QBs. Their playoff runs came with a guy who can't even handle sticking around as the starter on a team, which to me, says that the talent around Wentz is top-tier, and he's just barely struggling to survive in the playoff race.

Think I hate Kyler? That team would be leading the NFC East if they had him instead of Wentz.

The way Wentz was playing during his near MVP season before getting hurt I wouldn’t still think Philly wins it. Unfortunately the injuries have caught up to him and diminished his ability (mainly the back injury).

 

[BW52]

Bridgewater was a disaster for the team that gave up picks for him. When talking the draft, I don't talk about the future of the player that he didn't play for. If Kyler Murray leaves us in three years and wins seven championships with the Jaguars, but none for us, he will have been a bad pick for the Cardinals.

Bridgewater was a disaster for the team that gave up picks for him. When talking the draft, I don't talk about the future of the player that he didn't play for. If Kyler Murray leaves us in three years and wins seven championships with the Jaguars, but none for us, he will have been a bad pick for the Cardinals.

I don`t see your reasoning here.Bridgewater was traded ( his pick) by Seattle for 2 draft picks (Kyle Van Noy and Cassius Marsh).Van Noy has been a solid OLB and Marsh has bounced aroud.New Orleans got Bridgewater for a 6th round pick for Jets .Minnesota got a 11-5 season Bridgewaters 2nd season and a playoff game and a Pro-Bowl from him.So Minnesota got something from Teddy Bridgewater that Cards hope they can get from KM..playoff appearance.

 

[vince56]

Why is this news to anybody here? You've all followed the team closely for years. It was PAINFULLY obvious at the time that the Cardinals were looking to take Mahomes or Watson in the first round and there was a lot of Cardinals/Mahomes buzz leading up to the draft. Many mock drafts had Mahomes falling to the end of the first round. I watched Mike Mayock talk about the Cards taking Mahomes with a trade down to 32 on the NFL network the night before the draft (link to his mock).

The problem is that they thought one of them would fall to them and they were not proactive enough. I bet they were shocked when the Chiefs, who had a good QB in Smith, took Mahomes. Both Mahomes and Watson went in 2 of the 3 picks right before we drafted at #13. I bet they were concerned with the Mahomes pick, and then panicked when Watson was off the table, and then the reached for Reddick. I bet they didn't plan for both being off the table.

That's life in the NFL. You're always in competition, and if you're not aggressively pursuing your players you've identified as your guys in the draft, you're doing something wrong.

 

[Passepartout]

Yep but really seems like the higher ups did not want to draft those QB's and in the process cost Arians his job.

 

[Stout]

If this isn't a searing indictment about Keim and his (lack of) ability as a GM, I don't know what is.

 

[Cardsmasochist]

Would rather have Watson and Arians

And why Arians “retired” coaching the Cardinals I bet.


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[Chopper0080]

Exactly. Two teams who knew the Cards wanted and needed a qb.. something tells me an org who really wants a player or two should know the potential for that situation to happen..hence you make a package to trade up for the qb you really want so you don't get burned twice! This is keims reactionary nature at its finest. Imo

Yes. If we would have given up a 2nd or 3rd to move up to take Mahomes or Watson who would have cared. It is why I generally say that the rules go out the window when it comes to acquiring a QB. Logic and history tells you to let the draft come to you, but that shouldn't factor in when you are looking to find the new face of your franchise.

 

[jmt]

Woulda, coulda, shoulda - methinks BA should just go away.

 

[dscher]

Yes. If we would have given up a 2nd or 3rd to move up to take Mahomes or Watson who would have cared. It is why I generally say that the rules go out the window when it comes to acquiring a QB. Logic and history tells you to let the draft come to you, but that shouldn't factor in when you are looking to find the new face of your franchise.

...and two guys you were supposedly in love with pre draft after their workouts. I guess my sticking point with that one as an indictment on keim was that he got burned on both. If it was one.. ok. But to let both slip? What a pie in the face...and rather embarrassing tbh. Jmo

 

[dscher]

If this isn't a searing indictment about Keim and his (lack of) ability as a GM, I don't know what is.

He's no team builder. Has he made some great deals during his tenure? Sure. But, the depth of a team imo shows the talent of a gm..and our lack of quality in that area alone is just another flag among others.

 

[PACardsFan]

He's no team builder. Has he made some great deals during his tenure? Sure. But, the depth of a team imo shows the talent of a gm..and our lack of quality in that area alone is just another flag among others.

Are we sure that Keim isn’t a team builder? Until this past draft, SK always had BA sitting next to him. Knowing the BASK relationship better than most, you’ll have to trust that there’s a reason why we called it BASK & not SKBA. They are still very close friends, but BA was the Dad in that relationship. They started together in 2013 & BA took Keim under his wing & had more decision making influence than he probably should have. BA’s stubbornness in keeping an old team together made the BASK work relationship toxic. As I see it, last year was the 1st draft where Keim made the ultimate decisions. I think MB will give him at least another draft before making a final decision.

 

[kerouac9]

Are we sure that Keim isn’t a team builder? Until this past draft, SK always had BA sitting next to him. Knowing the BASK relationship better than most, you’ll have to trust that there’s a reason why we called it BASK & not SKBA. They are still very close friends, but BA was the Dad in that relationship. They started together in 2013 & BA took Keim under his wing & had more decision making influence than he probably should have. BA’s stubbornness in keeping an old team together made the BASK work relationship toxic. As I see it, last year was the 1st draft where Keim made the ultimate decisions. I think MB will give him at least another draft before making a final decision.

So who was in charge of building the roster for the disastrous 2018 offseason?

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

Pretty sure they would’ve taken Mahomes too had KC not traded in front of the Cards.
BA was on the radio during his off season of coaching and said Mahomes was the best on the white board he’d seen since Peyton Manning.

Proactive always beats reactive.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Would rather have Watson and Arians

+1

Sent from my mystical communication warp drive device thingy

 

[RugbyMuffin]

• Offensive quality control – Jim Dray

Championship.

And Drew Stanton is the 3rd string QB.

The Browns are stacked.....

Where is Stepfan Taylor?

Sent from my mystical communication warp drive device thingy

 

[PACardsFan]

So who was in charge of building the roster for the disastrous 2018 offseason?

With Wilks on the sideline, it really didn't matter what the roster looked like.

 

[Solar7]

Why would we have had to give up a 1st to move up 1-3 spots? We were sitting at 15 not 25 like Houston.

Because that's what was being offered? We were in direct competition with someone offering a top pick for that player. It's like asking if you'd rather sell your car for $25k right now or wait a year for $100k. The answer is very obvious. It's obvious both teams were not enamored with anyone on the board, and a first round pick is too great to pass up.

It's not like this is a setup where the closer team gets right of first refusal, you have to outbid the other offer. It worked out especially well for the Browns too, who got a top 5 pick out of the whole thing.

 

[Solar7]

That’s faulty reasoning. The pick would have been excellent. The team management letting him go or not surrounding him with a cast that could win 7 championships would be at fault.

How is it faulty reasoning? Again, it's like calling Brett Favre a great draft pick by the Falcons. He's a hall of fame player, but the Falcons got nothing from him. It's just like Drew Brees, too. He did not have a legendary career for the Chargers. Wasted pick.

I'm willing to shift my thing about Bridgewater to "iffy," but picks who don't produce for your team are meaningless picks. John Brown being a #1 receiver in Buffalo right now does not help the Arizona Cardinals.

I don`t see your reasoning here.Bridgewater was traded ( his pick) by Seattle for 2 draft picks (Kyle Van Noy and Cassius Marsh).Van Noy has been a solid OLB and Marsh has bounced aroud.New Orleans got Bridgewater for a 6th round pick for Jets .Minnesota got a 11-5 season Bridgewaters 2nd season and a playoff game and a Pro-Bowl from him.So Minnesota got something from Teddy Bridgewater that Cards hope they can get from KM..playoff appearance.

See above.

 

[Solar7]

Yes. If we would have given up a 2nd or 3rd to move up to take Mahomes or Watson who would have cared. It is why I generally say that the rules go out the window when it comes to acquiring a QB. Logic and history tells you to let the draft come to you, but that shouldn't factor in when you are looking to find the new face of your franchise.

Everyone would have cared, since those players were anything but surefire, and we were a team supposedly angling for a playoff berth or championship that year.

You're all not looking at this from the context of what the situation was in 2017, just mad because those guys are both difference makers now.

Barely any acknowledgement on the Paxton Lynch thing either. Keim is "proactive" to get him and we call him a fat drunk like in other threads. He moves up for Mahomes or Watson? Genius. What if he had moved up to get his guy with Ameer Abdullah instead of David Johnson? We'd be calling him a proactive idiot. And he moved up to get Rosen, who didn't work out, which we hate him for.

It's all revisionist history. I still think Keim sucks, but this isn't why.