Bryant charged with felony sexual assault

elindholm

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I find this whole situation to be a tragedy, a tale of a fallen hero

I wouldn't go that far. Anyone who expects sports figures to be heroes has some growing up to do.

And heck, even with the adultery, Bryant is still one of the nicer guys in the NBA. True, that's not saying much. But I personally won't find it a whole lot more difficult now to admire his talents -- perhaps because I never had him on a pedestal in the first place. He's still a great player who can "perform" under adverse circumstances (yuk, yuk).

Oh, and if he does end up deciding he wants to leave the Lakers, I wouldn't expect to see any shortage of GMs willing to sell their souls to the devil in order to get him.
 

Renz

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Originally posted by elindholm
And never mind that it is illegal in some (many?) states, plus automatic grounds for divorce.

Adultery is a misdemeanor in a handful of states (i.e. Kansas, Arkansas, Georgia), but interestingly it is also considered adultery in certain states to have sex with someone you know is married.

So Kobe's accuser would also be guilty of a crime if she consented to have sex with him.

Whether adultery laws are, or should be, enforced is another question.
 

elindholm

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So Kobe's accuser would also be guilty of a crime if she consented to have sex with him.

You just don't get it. His accuser isn't an international star who held a press conference to announce that she had done nothing wrong.

If Bryant had gotten together with ten junkies and done a night of cocaine, would it all have been okay, because the junkies were making mistakes too?
 

Renz

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Originally posted by elindholm
So Kobe's accuser would also be guilty of a crime if she consented to have sex with him.

You just don't get it. His accuser isn't an international star who held a press conference to announce that she had done nothing wrong.

If Bryant had gotten together with ten junkies and done a night of cocaine, would it all have been okay, because the junkies were making mistakes too?

I'm not sure what you are trying to say here. I was merely pointing out the idiosyncrasies of adultery laws in this country.
 

elindholm

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Whether adultery laws are, or should be, enforced is another question.

I'm with you there. Furthermore, I think it's a joke that the age of consent is 18. Everyone knows that girls are sexually mature before then (and not emotionally mature until much later, in case that's supposed to be the justification). Given the rate at which 14- and 15-year-olds have children, it is absurd to pretend that a 17-year-old doesn't understand enough about sex to be able to say yes or no. It's virtually inconceivable to me that my just-born daughter won't have sex before her 18th birthday, no matter what kind of "values" her mother and I attempt to preach in the meantime.

It wasn't all that long ago when girls were married off in their early- to mid-teens, anyway. What, were the husbands supposed to wait until their wives turned 18 before consummating the marriage? On top of that (heh), girls are maturing physically more quickly now than ever before.
 

Renz

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Originally posted by elindholm
On top of that (heh), girls are maturing physically more quickly now than ever before.

That's for sure. I taught 10th grade for awhile and the 15 and 16 year old girls I taught were, for the most part, fully physically developed.

Consent laws are in place to keep adults from preying on young teens. If teens want to have sex with each other the state doesn't get involved. Some states have consent laws of 16 or 17 years of age though.
 

Renz

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Originally posted by Krangthebrain
This article actually furthers my belief that she isn't lying. This girl has been through a tremendous amount of emotional trauma in the past year, and I don't see why she would cause more drama.

Or maybe she is a woman who craves the "drama". A "drama queen" if you will.

If nothing else it raises the possibility that she is prone to hysterics and/or exaggeration.

I don't know if it makes her version of events more credible.
 

Krangodnzr

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Originally posted by elindholm
I find this whole situation to be a tragedy, a tale of a fallen hero

I wouldn't go that far. Anyone who expects sports figures to be heroes has some growing up to do.

And heck, even with the adultery, Bryant is still one of the nicer guys in the NBA. True, that's not saying much. But I personally won't find it a whole lot more difficult now to admire his talents -- perhaps because I never had him on a pedestal in the first place. He's still a great player who can "perform" under adverse circumstances (yuk, yuk).

Oh, and if he does end up deciding he wants to leave the Lakers, I wouldn't expect to see any shortage of GMs willing to sell their souls to the devil in order to get him.

I don't know if this is meant as an attack on me, but many view sports stars as heroes. I don't believe it myself, but Kobe represents a fallen hero to some.
 

Krangodnzr

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Originally posted by Renz
Or maybe she is a woman who craves the "drama". A "drama queen" if you will.

If nothing else it raises the possibility that she is prone to hysterics and/or exaggeration.

I don't know if it makes her version of events more credible.

That's another intrepretation, and a valid one.
 

Brian in Mesa

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Originally posted by Krangthebrain
I was the one who claimed that, and I haven't found anything to support that claim. I must have misheard what Kobe was saying, or my memory was just faulty :D.

But one thing that we all know for sure, was that in the beginning Kobe claimed that he had done nothing wrong. That isn't true, he now admits to committing adultery. That's where he lied, adultery IS wrongdoing, and I think anyone who values there wife or even girlfriend would agree.

Although IMHO I still think Kobe is a loser, etc for what he did, I do not remember him ever denying that he and the girl had sex (If you know of a link proving otherwise, please provide it.).

From the beginning he was clear to make statements proclaiming that he was innocent of what he was being accused of (sexual assault). He worded it so that later it wouldn't be taken as a lie. Smooth, like the cheating loser that he is.

To me, omission of the truth, especially such a huge truth, is the same as a lie. He only revealed the truth when the physical evidence proved sex had happened.
 

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I was just thinking about this whole situation, and I had a big question hit me. Should Kobe be conviced and sentenced to say 4 years in jail or something like that I think I have heard is the minimum, what happens with his contract status? Would he be a free agent when he gets out or would his contract be suspended somehow and pick up where it left off? Also would he still be getting paid, both for basketball and endorsement contracts, while he was in jail?

I guess this isnt as much a question about Kobe as much as the way the system works with any player that has a so called guananteed contract.
 

Renz

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Originally posted by elindholm
I find this whole situation to be a tragedy, a tale of a fallen hero

I wouldn't go that far. Anyone who expects sports figures to be heroes has some growing up to do.

That is the worst part about this whole thing for me personally. Most adults don't expect sports stars to be super-heroes, but kids do.

My nine-year-old nephew is a HUGE Lakers/Kobe fan and it is disheartening to think about what he thinks of the whole thing. I'm sure he doesn't even know what words like "adultery" and "sexual assault" mean, but it must be tough for him to see his hero falling so hard.

I guess that is the main reason I hope these charges are untrue. Nine years old is too young to become jaded and disillusioned like the rest of us.

But either way, I guess he has to learn that being a good basketball player doesn't necessarily make someone a good role model.
 

Krangodnzr

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Originally posted by Brian in Mesa
Although IMHO I still think Kobe is a loser, etc for what he did, I do not remember him ever denying that he and the girl had sex (If you know of a link proving otherwise, please provide it.).

From the beginning he was clear to make statements proclaiming that he was innocent of what he was being accused of (sexual assault). He worded it so that later it wouldn't be taken as a lie. Smooth, like the cheating loser that he is.

To me, omission of the truth, especially such a huge truth, is the same as a lie. He only revealed the truth when the physical evidence proved sex had happened.

I think you are misunderstanding my post. I was saying that I must have misheard or my memory was wrong. Kobe, indeed never said that he didn't know her. But he say that he did nothing wrong.
 

Krangodnzr

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Originally posted by Tank
I was just thinking about this whole situation, and I had a big question hit me. Should Kobe be conviced and sentenced to say 4 years in jail or something like that I think I have heard is the minimum, what happens with his contract status? Would he be a free agent when he gets out or would his contract be suspended somehow and pick up where it left off? Also would he still be getting paid, both for basketball and endorsement contracts, while he was in jail?

I guess this isnt as much a question about Kobe as much as the way the system works with any player that has a so called guananteed contract.

(WARNING DARK HUMOR) I bet prison ball would reach new heights if Kobe is convicted!
 

Brian in Mesa

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Originally posted by Krangthebrain
I think you are misunderstanding my post. I was saying that I must have misheard or my memory was wrong. Kobe, indeed never said that he didn't know her. But he say that he did nothing wrong.

When did he say he did nothing wrong is my question? All I ever heard or saw printed was that he said he was innocent of what he was being charged with, and that anyone who knew him knew that he did not do "what they say I did" (sexual assault). When did he ever say - "I did not have sexual relations with that woman."? (Hmmm...that sounds familiar, but I think some other loser of a cheating creep said it).

UGH, you're making me feel sick, like I am actually defending what Kobe said. Stop it.

Still, I think in a huge case like this we should all know the facts. Too often someone throws something out there without anything to back it up.

Do you have a link to an article where Kobe denies having sex with the girl, or doing ANYTHING wrong? Something besides denying the charges...
 

Krangodnzr

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Originally posted by Brian in Mesa
When did he say he did nothing wrong is my question? All I ever heard or saw printed was that he said he was innocent of what he was being charged with, and that anyone who knew him knew that he did not do "what they say I did" (sexual assault). When did he ever say - "I did not have sexual relations with that woman."? (Hmmm...that sounds familiar, but I think some other loser of a cheating creep said it).

UGH, you're making me feel sick, like I am actually defending what Kobe said. Stop it.

Still, I think in a huge case like this we should all know the facts. Too often someone throws something out there without anything to back it up.

Do you have a link to an article where Kobe denies having sex with the girl, or doing ANYTHING wrong? Something besides denying the charges...

July 19 — This isn’t about morality or crime. I’ll let others better qualified than I in both departments to sort that out. It’s about doing the right thing after you’ve been caught doing the wrong thing. It wasn’t that long ago, just a week, since Kobe Bryant asked us to think about what we know of him and to agree with him that he would never do “anything like that.”

HE DIDN’T USE the words “rape” or “sexual assault” or any other qualifier, leaving us to conclude that he meant he wouldn’t have sex with a woman not his wife.
Rather Clintonesque of him, wasn’t it? And because he’s someone whose skills we greatly admire; because he’s handsome and polite and has always been well-behaved; because he’s a man who has never been touched by the breath of scandal, we wanted to believe that.
Or, more to the point, he wanted us to believe that. And that would be understandable in many circumstances. No one who enjoys a squeaky-clean image and who has been cheating on his or her spouse wants that reputation sullied, especially when there is an aggrieved spouse to answer to.
But now, with charges of felony rape filed against him by a Colorado prosecutor, Bryant has changed his story. OK, he has admitted. He did have sex with that woman. He made the “mistake” of adultery. But she was a willing participant. He didn’t rape her.
His credibility disappeared with that admission. He is in full defensive mode now, responding to revelations, trying to control damage that can’t be controlled. He’s like the captain of the Titanic sending a crewman below to stuff a blanket in the hull to stop the water from coming in. It’s not going to work.
And if this were merely a case of infidelity, it wouldn’t be that big a deal to the world at large. But this is a case of alleged rape, one of the most reviled of crimes. It is a case that will hinge on “he said, she said,” and in such cases, credibility is everything. And Bryant has already given his away.
He did the wrong thing, and then he did the wrong thing again.
Right now, we can’t be sure of what Kobe Bryant would or wouldn’t do. And it’s all because of the way he handled himself when the story first surfaced that he called for room service and got more than a bacon cheeseburger and curly fries.
The 19-year-old woman accusing him of rape reported the incident almost immediately. She went to a hospital to have evidence collected, and Bryant was taken to the hospital for the same purpose.
He’s a smart man, despite not having gone to college, and he had to know when he went to the hospital that there was no denying that he and the woman had exchanged bodily fluids, whether by mutual consent or not. At the moment he turned over his DNA, the game was up and there was only one thing to do — stand up and take his lumps.
We may understand his reluctance to admit to his young wife, the mother of his child, that he stumbled off the matrimonial path. But he did what he did, and the fact that most athletes do the same — at least one unscientific survey has said the majority of male athletes cheat on their spouses — that’s beside the point. When you engage in risky behavior, sometimes you’re going to get called on it. And when you are as famous and rich and successful as he is, the media are going to be on you like tan on a lifeguard.
Bryant got caught doing the wrong thing, even if it is as common a sin as filching a pen from the office stationery cabinet. At that point, with the evidence in baggies and vials in a crime lab, there was nothing for him to do but admit it. That’s what a responsible man or woman who has acted irresponsibly does. It’s not easy to do, but it has to be done.
The day after he arrived back in Los Angeles, Kobe should have stood up, swallowed hard, and said, “I sinned, and I’m sorry.”
Another way to put it might have been: “I am truly ashamed to say I cheated on my wife, whom I love more than anything in the world. What I did was inexcusable, and I can only hope and pray that, in time, she will find it in her heart to forgive me.”
And then, if it is his contention that whatever happened in the resort room was agreed upon by both participants, he should have added: “But I did not force the woman to have sex. I don’t know why she is saying I did, but anything that happened between us was consensual.”
We might have believed him then, and we might not have believed his accuser. Again, I am not making judgments here that only a court can make. I know little about his accuser other than that she is young and had dreams of being a star and is either very brave or very naïve or maybe both.
But I do know how these things work in court, where justice can be little more than a distant ideal, unapproachable in such cases. And I know how we all react when a hero stands before us and denies everything, then, a week later, admits to part of the accusation but not to the other part.
Such behavior nearly ended a presidency, and Clinton was not accused of rape. Surely, Bryant remembered that. Surely, he should have known that he could not deny the best physical evidence that exists — his own genetic fingerprint.
Perception is everything in these cases, and right now, the perception is that Kobe Bryant is not the wonderful person we all thought he was, even if he made a mistake that better men than he have made before and will again. It is that he is a liar trying to save a life of fame and wealth and a reputation of exemplary behavior.
That is the perception. None of us except he and the woman know the reality, and it’s guaranteed that they will never agree even on that. People can see consent where none existed in the mind of the other.
That is all for a jury to decide, and good luck to the unlucky panel that tries to sort it all out. A preliminary hearing is scheduled for August and the trial will follow at a date to be determined. Bryant has a lot of time and a lot of money to organize his defense. But he’s started it badly. Very badly.

http://msnbc.com/news/941255.asp
 

Brian in Mesa

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Krang - that article just solidifies my point. He was vague whenever he spoke about this issue.

Saying "I would never do anything like that" in response to possible charges of a sexual assault, to me, is far different from saying "I absolutely did not have sex with that woman, willingly or otherwise" and it's a huge leap to fill in the blanks in such a manner.

He was being the smooth operator who got caught and quickly started speaking as such.

Everything he said left him the opportunity to go back and point out that he never denied having sex with her.
 

Krangodnzr

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Originally posted by Brian in Mesa
Krang - that article just solidifies my point. He was vague whenever he spoke about this issue.

Saying "I would never do anything like that" in response to possible charges of a sexual assault, to me, is far different from saying "I absolutely did not have sex with that woman, willingly or otherwise" and it's a huge leap to fill in the blanks in such a manner.

He was being the smooth operator who got caught and quickly started speaking as such.

Everything he said left him the opportunity to go back and point out that he never denied having sex with her.

So it's a huge leap? You said it was basically a lie and I agree.

From the beginning he was clear to make statements proclaiming that he was innocent of what he was being accused of (sexual assault). He worded it so that later it wouldn't be taken as a lie. Smooth, like the cheating loser that he is.

To me, omission of the truth, especially such a huge truth, is the same as a lie. He only revealed the truth when the physical evidence proved sex had happened.
 

Krangodnzr

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Kobe would look a lot better in my eyes, if he had immediately said that he commited adultery...
 

sly fly

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Kobe's adultery is his undoing. His star is forever tarnished. It will fade over time, but the stigma will always be there (kind of like Marv Albert and his back biting :p).

Even though I don't know the guy, I still can't believe he got married at such a young age. With all the temptations out there (and, if you're like any warm-blooded, good-looking, rich male... there are many), it would seem like he would enjoy his independance a little while longer.

But, Kobe is a different breed from what I hear. Not much of a partier. Someone who enjoys being by himself. I don't think many people know the away-from-ball Kobe.

The whole thing is amazing.

Personally, I don't think he would sexually assault somebody. It just doesn't add up. Could he have treated her like a piece of meat afterwards? Possibly.

I mean, how does any reasonably intelligent person (with reputation, dollars, and family at stake) not ponder the consequences of forcible rape?
 

Chaz

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Originally posted by Krangthebrain
Kobe would look a lot better in my eyes, if he had immediately said that he commited adultery...

I guess but is he immediatly supposed to have a mea culpa to the press?

If there is a possibility of being charged with a crime anyone would be smart to volunteer as little as possible to the media.
His wife, lawyer, and the DA are the only people he should be obligated to volunteer information to.

IMO it is not public business unless there is a crime. As far as I can tell all he denied is the potential (at that time) charges against him.
 

Evil Ash

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Originally posted by sly fly
I mean, how does any reasonably intelligent person (with reputation, dollars, and family at stake) not ponder the consequences of forcible rape?

Well that question is actually rather simple to answer, like most star athletes he may just let his ego get the best of him.

He may have just have gone through the train of thought that some celebrities (especially of those in sports), which is:

"I am God...I am indestructable...No one can stop me!!"

If you want an example of what I am talking about look no further than Chicago (Jason Williams).

It really is sad that some people honestly feel this way and it usually ends up with bad consequences! :(

As to whether or not Kobe belongs in this group is yet to be determined!!
 

Evil Ash

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Originally posted by SirChaz
I guess but is he immediatly supposed to have a mea culpa to the press?

If there is a possibility of being charged with a crime anyone would be smart to volunteer as little as possible to the media.
His wife, lawyer, and the DA are the only people he should be obligated to volunteer information to.

IMO it is not public business unless there is a crime. As far as I can tell all he denied is the potential (at that time) charges against him.

Good points! However that does not help when his character is called into question in trial though...
 

Brian in Mesa

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Originally posted by sly fly
The whole thing is amazing.

Personally, I don't think he would sexually assault somebody. It just doesn't add up. Could he have treated her like a piece of meat afterwards? Possibly.

I mean, how does any reasonably intelligent person (with reputation, dollars, and family at stake) not ponder the consequences of forcible rape?

FOX 10 just spoke to 3 of the girl's friends and they said that their friend was talking with Kobe and everything seemed cool, but as soon as she entered his room he changed (they used the word snapped) and flat out raped her.

:confused:

There goes the notion that this will be a case where it started out consentual and then turned into forceful...

I just hope the truth does come out, although we'll never know exactly what happened in that room...besides Kobe cheating.
 
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Brian in Mesa

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Another point regarding this girl's 3 friends and their statement(s): They only decided to speak to the media because they saw news reports about their friend's recent drug overdose and the recent bad breakup she had with her boyfriend...
 

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