Bryant charged with felony sexual assault

Brian in Mesa

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Originally posted by SweetD
I don't see how bitching on a message board about Kobe is a (good guy/a$$hole) is worth [our] time, nor going to help the Suns win the Finals.

:confused:

This is a Suns board, but it also is open to general NBA discussion.

If you don't want to discuss Kobe, or anything non-Suns - read the title of the threads and ignore those that do not interest you.

It's really quite simple.

And I don't think anything that fans do on a message board is going to help an NBA team "win the Finals."

:confused:
 

Brian in Mesa

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Watching reruns of Law and Order does not make you an expert in Law.

What about Order? :D
 

Chaplin

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Originally posted by Brian in Mesa
:confused:

This is a Suns board, but it also is open to general NBA discussion.

If you don't want to discuss Kobe, or anything non-Suns - read the title of the threads and ignore those that do not interest you.

It's really quite simple.

And I don't think anything that fans do on a message board is going to help an NBA team "win the Finals."

:confused:

Absolutely agreed. It's still a discussion, and just because a few people (one of which is in the minority and has been on the short side fo the arguement) decide they don't want to deal with the thread anymore, they tell Joe to lock it.
 

SweetD

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Originally posted by Brian in Mesa
:confused:

This is a Suns board, but it also is open to general NBA discussion.

If you don't want to discuss Kobe, or anything non-Suns - read the title of the threads and ignore those that do not interest you.

It's really quite simple.

And I don't think anything that fans do on a message board is going to help an NBA team "win the Finals."

:confused:

I am not saying close this thread, but we all should stop saying we "Know Kobe would(n't)......." WE DON'T KNOW HIM!!!! IMO Kobe is only here for my enjoyment to watch him play ball. If he is in jail or in the offseason he is worth less to me. Personaly that goes for every athlete except the Suns/Cards/D-Backs/Ratlers/Ect....(Only becouse they are a local team and bring in Revenue.) Does help I also like the teams. :D
 

JJ Slim

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Originally posted by KloD
Watching reruns of Law and Order does not make you an expert in Law.

Have you ever seen the movie, "Catch Me If You Can"? It's based on a true story where Leonardo DiCaprio (yuck) plays Frank Abagnale Jr. who was a con artist in the '60s and '70s. He was able to pass himself off as a lawyer and passed his bar exam by watching episodes of Perry Mason. :D
 

JJ Slim

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And if this thread gets locked someone will just start a new one. Better to keep it all in one place.
 

Ryanwb

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Originally posted by SweetD
I am not saying close this thread, but we all should stop saying we "Know Kobe would(n't)......." WE DON'T KNOW HIM!!!! IMO Kobe is only here for my enjoyment to watch him play ball. If he is in jail or in the offseason he is worth less to me. Personaly that goes for every athlete except the Suns/Cards/D-Backs/Ratlers/Ect....(Only becouse they are a local team and bring in Revenue.) Does help I also like the teams. :D

Great point! Teams, players and advertisers hire very high priced image consultants to shape the perception of the person they are marketing to the public.....I have been duped before...like Magic Johnson and Micheal Jordan. Sure they are great ball players and seemed to be great family men...this is what their image consultants wanted us to think. Later we find out they are scumbag cheating adulterous slime....... Magic Johnson endangered the life of his wife and child with the HIV virus because he couldn't keep his "work" zipped up.
 

Krangodnzr

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Kobe accuser's past may be barred from court

Howard Pankratz
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Jul. 21, 2003 04:52 PM


A Colorado jury may never hear allegations that a woman allegedly sexually assaulted by basketball star Kobe Bryant overdosed two months before the alleged assault at a posh hotel and spa, lawyers said Monday.

The Orange County Register reported Sunday that the alleged 19-year-old victim became distraught after learning that her high school sweetheart was dating another woman and a close friend was killed in an truck accident.

The Register reported that the woman was found incoherent, lethargic and seemingly drunk when she was found in her home by a friend and rushed to the hospital.

But lawyers said Monday that a Colorado judge, following a pattern of protecting sex assault victims that has developed in the past three decades, may find that the incident has no relevance to the assault allegation made by the woman.

The 19-year-old college student claims that Bryant attacked her on the night of June 30 at The Lodge & Spa at Cordillera in the Colorado mountain community of Edwards, where she works.

Defense lawyer Bob Ransome said that under some conditions a judge might allow the information in.

But Ransome said it will probably be tough going for the defense to convince a judge that there is a good reason to allow it at trial.

"There are simply no rules on that. That is simply a discretionary thing with the judge," Ransome said. "I will tell you one thing - victims are really protected by the courts, almost over-protected. In my opinion, the defense has an uphill battle to get that in."

Former Denver prosecutor Karen Steinhauser, now a visiting professor at the University of Denver Law School, said defense lawyers might try to introduce the overdose incident as in some way affecting the credibility of the alleged victim.

But Steinhauser said she doesn't believe the incident, if true, affects the alleged victim's credibility or what occurred on June 30.

"I don't believe because someone has gone through a bad time and may have taken an overdose that it now means we have to question their ability to tell the truth," Steinhauser said.

And Peter Weir, executive director of the Colorado District Attorneys' Council , said that under Colorado law, before defense lawyers can admit evidence in any kind of case they must show that the relevance of the evidence outweighs any prejudicial value.

"In other words, it just can't be character assassination," Weir said.

"They've got to be able to show some nexus to the case at hand and why it is important to put that information before the jury - whether previous sexual conduct, previous mental health history, drug use or whatever."

However, Larry Pozner, a Denver-based lawyer and former president of the National Association of criminal Defense Lawyers , said the overdosing allegation should be admitted at trial because it goes to the credibility and mental stability of the woman.

"A physically healthy 19-year-old who overdoses either is irrational - she has lost touch with reality - or if it is a cry for help, it is an absolute stunning cry for attention," Pozner said.

Pozner said that the reports of the overdosing are a body blow to the prosecution's case against Bryant.

"This is very bad stuff for the prosecution. This is the last thing they needed. This is devastating," Pozner said.

He said juries want to know everything about the person making the allegation against Bryant and are asking her why should they should believe her.

The actions of the woman when confronted with stressful situations indicates she reacts in unusual ways, Pozner said.

"If it was a fake suicide attempt, it is the ultimate attention-getting device," the lawyer said. "If it wasn't an attention-getting device...how disturbed is she? It's a sign of irrational behavior and a break with reality. That is admissible when you ask a jury to believe this woman's testimony beyond a reasonable doubt."

Both Pozner and Ransome noted that the woman auditioned for the TV-reality show, "American Idol".

"That says a whole bunch, if true," Ransome said. "If a victim in this type of case had a propensity to be seeking publicity, that would be something very, very important to me as a defense attorney," Ransome said. "It is a possibility that this person was seeking the limelight and may find any way that she can to become a public persona. To me, it casts a shadow on the government's case, if it is true."


http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/0721kobe-shield21-ON.html
 

rkellysunsfan

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Hmmm.... who to trust?

On one hand, you have a clean-cut, extremely professional, intelligent and, after being watched scrupulously by the entire United States even when he was 17 years of age, showed he was a man of consistent decency...

Or a troubled 19 year old druggy, after failing to receive a large amount of attention by trying out for American Idol, and trying to kill herself by a drug overdose, who seemingly took the logical next step - accusing a superstar athlete of sexual assault?

Well, both seem credible to me, so who would you trust, God? Er, I mean, Chap?
 

elindholm

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Well, both seem credible to me

Except that one has already publicly admitted being dishonest about the incident. Even if we accept his original denial to the media, he was dishonest to his wife at the moment of infidelity. Adultery is, among other things, a violation of trust.
 

Brian in Mesa

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therealhardaway...err...notakiddfan1...err...rkellysunsfan:

I said it before, and I'll repeat it for you.

A bad girl can be sexually assualted just as easily as a nice girl.

Proving that this girl has a troubled past, to me, doesn't mean that Kobe did not assault her.
 

thegrahamcrackr

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Originally posted by Brian in Mesa


A bad girl can be sexually assualted just as easily as a nice girl.

Proving that this girl has a troubled past, to me, doesn't mean that Kobe did not assault her.

My mom is a 15 year OB/GYN at county hospital, so she sees and examines (for the DA) a lot of rape victims. I was talking to her the other day about all this and her only line was

"Even hookers can be raped"

Now about the troubled past thing, it by no means says that she cannot be raped, but it does perhaps increase the likelyhood that she could be lying about the incident.
 

schutd

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Originally posted by elindholm
Well, both seem credible to me

Except that one has already publicly admitted being dishonest about the incident. Even if we accept his original denial to the media, he was dishonest to his wife at the moment of infidelity. Adultery is, among other things, a violation of trust.

Elindholm,

What is it that they say about reasoning with an idiot????
 

Krangodnzr

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Originally posted by Brian in Mesa
therealhardaway...err...notakiddfan1...err...rkellysunsfan:

I said it before, and I'll repeat it for you.

A bad girl can be sexually assualted just as easily as a nice girl.

Proving that this girl has a troubled past, to me, doesn't mean that Kobe did not assault her.

I'm still waiting on him to take you up on your offer to pummel him. I'd pay ten bucks to see that!

Have any of you noticed that he hasn't even denied that he isn't therealhardaway/notakiddfan1?
 

Krangodnzr

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Originally posted by thegrahamcrackr
My mom is a 15 year OB/GYN at county hospital, so she sees and examines (for the DA) a lot of rape victims. I was talking to her the other day about all this and her only line was

"Even hookers can be raped"

Now about the troubled past thing, it by no means says that she cannot be raped, but it does perhaps increase the likelyhood that she could be lying about the incident.

Nice post. :thumbup:
 

elindholm

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Elindholm,

What is it that they say about reasoning with an idiot????


Schutd,

I sure hope you aren't trying to explain something to me. ;)
 

Chaplin

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Originally posted by rkellysunsfan

Well, both seem credible to me, so who would you trust, God? Er, I mean, Chap?

Well, this is the kind of statement I'd expect from someone who is losing an arguement miserably.

I thought that guy was banned? :confused:
 

SweetD

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Originally posted by rkellysunsfan
Hmmm.... who to trust?

On one hand, you have a clean-cut, extremely professional, intelligent and, after being watched scrupulously by the entire United States even when he was 17 years of age, showed he was a man of consistent decency...

Or a troubled 19 year old druggy, after failing to receive a large amount of attention by trying out for American Idol, and trying to kill herself by a drug overdose, who seemingly took the logical next step - accusing a superstar athlete of sexual assault?

Well, both seem credible to me, so who would you trust, God? Er, I mean, Chap?

WOW! you got some issues. I guess your user name says it all..
You must be registered for see images
 

SirStefan32

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Originally posted by Brian in Mesa
Stefan -

A bad girl can be sexually assualted just as easily as a nice girl.

Proving that this girl has a troubled past, to me, doesn't mean that Kobe did not assault her.

Right Brian, but the burden of proof is not Kobe to prove that he did not assault her. The burden of proof rests on the DA to prove his case beyond reasonable doubt. There are no witnesses, and it comes down to her and his (Kobe's) credibility.

Whoever is more credible will win the case.

Stefan
 

Krangodnzr

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Originally posted by SirStefan32
Right Brian, but the burden of proof is not Kobe to prove that he did not assault her. The burden of proof rests on the DA to prove his case beyond reasonable doubt. There are no witnesses, and it comes down to her and his (Kobe's) credibility.

Whoever is more credible will win the case.

Stefan

Ah but the judge might not allow ANY of the socalled credibility concerns to be used against the victim.

So now the jury will be asked to judge the victims word against someone who is already known to have cheated on his wife...
 

SirStefan32

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Originally posted by Krangthebrain
Ah but the judge might not allow ANY of the socalled credibility concerns to be used against the victim.

So now the jury will be asked to judge the victims word against someone who is already known to have cheated on his wife...

The judge might not allow it. That is very unlikely though.
Bryant has very conpetent attorneys who will make sure that he doesn't get convicted.
 

Krangodnzr

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Originally posted by SirStefan32
The judge might not allow it. That is very unlikely though.
Bryant has very conpetent attorneys who will make sure that he doesn't get convicted.

Why is it unlikely Stefan? Didn't you read the report yesterday that the judge is considering that? Just the fact that he is considering it makes it not unlikely.

And the competence of his attorneys doesn't matter if the judge wants to throw out the "supposed" credibility concerns.
 

Chaplin

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Originally posted by SirStefan32
The judge might not allow it. That is very unlikely though.
Bryant has very conpetent attorneys who will make sure that he doesn't get convicted.

You're not a lawyer, not for Kobe, and not for the DA's office, so I can't understand how you can even speculate.
 

elindholm

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The judge might not allow it. That is very unlikely though.
Bryant has very conpetent attorneys who will make sure that he doesn't get convicted.


Unfortunately, I can easily see why SirStefan makes this claim. We don't know the specifics of this case, but we do know that in many, many cases before that seemed to be similar, the high-priced defense attorneys have

(a) successfully gained permission during the trial to impugn the victim's character,

(b) created adequate confusion about who felt what about which when, and

(c) won acquittals.

So even though we don't know anything about this case, we can make educated guesses from how it "looks." And those guesses point to acquittal won through putting the victim on trial.
 

SirStefan32

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Originally posted by elindholm
The judge might not allow it. That is very unlikely though.
Bryant has very conpetent attorneys who will make sure that he doesn't get convicted.


Unfortunately, I can easily see why SirStefan makes this claim. We don't know the specifics of this case, but we do know that in many, many cases before that seemed to be similar, the high-priced defense attorneys have

(a) successfully gained permission during the trial to impugn the victim's character,

(b) created adequate confusion about who felt what about which when, and

(c) won acquittals.

So even though we don't know anything about this case, we can make educated guesses from how it "looks." And those guesses point to acquittal won through putting the victim on trial.

Thank you for being objective Eric.

Stefan
 
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