Bulls at Suns Game Thread

[krispydude]

Someone bring up Jazz record against the Suns as of late (like the last 2 seasons)

factor their improvement this season and the Jazz's strengths... and Suns weaknesses this season...

They will beat us, unless Amare becomes BETTER in the boards and defensive end....

suns are 3-4 the past 2 seasons against the jazz. 1-3 last year.

the jazz are like a mini spurs team right now. they play hard and dirty and beats teams down physically. thats the way sloan coaches.

jazz are definitely getting better by the year with deron (who is putting up nash like numbers) and boozer is great inside. who do we have to stop boozer and millsap? ak is putting up '05 '06 diaw like numbers right now and he kills us inside with his help defense. he seems to come and help on every lay up and gets the block.

im not saying they are a juggernaut but they are assemblying a great team there. williams, boozer, okur, brewer, millsap, ak, harpring, giricek

it would be a damn tough series to win without some more inside help.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

I can almost guarantee that there won't be anymore inside help coming without parts going out. That's just the reality of the Suns business model. Am I happy about it? No.

If you guys want to assign blame for our current roster make up look no further than the owner, who considers the bench wasted money.

 

[Errntknght]

Stargazer,

This is a bit off-topic, but speaking of Amare's blocks, aren't blocked shots a bit overrated as a statistic? They only matter in the game if: (a) the shot would have gone in but for the block, and (b) your team recovers the blocked shot. And even then its only as important as a rebound or a single missed shot (i.e., it takes away one possession). By far the most important single statistic seems to me to be offensive rebounds and put backs, since they: (a) count for another possession, and (b) successfully complete that extra possession by scoring 2 points. Failing to box out and letting the other team get a single offensive rebound and put back cancels out 4 or 5 blocks in the game. [This isn't a knock on Amare, by the way, just an observation]

This sentiment is rather widely held but I don't wholly subscribe to it. A blocked shot in itself is not that valuable for the reasons you mentioned - and for another as well: players that attempt to block every shot in their vicinity often leave gaps for offensive rebounders. On the other side of the ledger a player with a deserved reputation for blocking shots makes opponents miss shots because they are 'looking over their shoulder' when they shoot and, even better, they avoid attempting shots in his part of the floor.

 

[Errntknght]

cly2tw,

Bell disrupts the offense whenever he touches the ball. Period! Bench him, start Barbosa.

That belongs more on D'Antoni's plate than on Raja's - remember the prior years when Bell was great as a spot up shooter? He isn't playing the same part of the floor this year because Mike has moved Hill to that area and moved Bell out at the top which makes him more involved in trying to run the offense. Sheesh, I've been beating up on DA since the pre-season for the idiocy of the whole arrangement.

Naturally, when Barbosa starts in Bell's place it makes more sense to put Hill in the corner because Barbosa would be much less useful consigned to a corner than Hill is - Leandro needs lots of space to operate in. When Nash isn't in the game then Hill should be out on top with Leandro but Mike isn't even using that arrangement. And the team still sucks just as much when Nash sits.

 

[Rab]

Speaking of Raja, he aggrivated his ankle and will not play against the Rockets according to KTAR.

 

[cly2tw]

cly2tw,

That belongs more on D'Antoni's plate than on Raja's - remember the prior years when Bell was great as a spot up shooter? He isn't playing the same part of the floor this year because Mike has moved Hill to that area and moved Bell out at the top which makes him more involved in trying to run the offense. Sheesh, I've been beating up on DA since the pre-season for the idiocy of the whole arrangement.

Naturally, when Barbosa starts in Bell's place it makes more sense to put Hill in the corner because Barbosa would be much less useful consigned to a corner than Hill is - Leandro needs lots of space to operate in. When Nash isn't in the game then Hill should be out on top with Leandro but Mike isn't even using that arrangement. And the team still sucks just as much when Nash sits.

Exactly. If DA is fixed on the idea of parking Hill in the corner Raja used to occupy, then the complementary move is to move Raja to the bench. Something gotta change to make sense!

 

[jandaman]

suns are 3-4 the past 2 seasons against the jazz. 1-3 last year.

the jazz are like a mini spurs team right now. they play hard and dirty and beats teams down physically. thats the way sloan coaches.

jazz are definitely getting better by the year with deron (who is putting up nash like numbers) and boozer is great inside. who do we have to stop boozer and millsap? ak is putting up '05 '06 diaw like numbers right now and he kills us inside with his help defense. he seems to come and help on every lay up and gets the block.

im not saying they are a juggernaut but they are assemblying a great team there. williams, boozer, okur, brewer, millsap, ak, harpring, giricek

it would be a damn tough series to win without some more inside help.

The Jazz will come out of the west this year.

Deron has improved from last season, just his leadership.

Brewer is hugely improved, Kirilenko is back to his old self (9/7/7/3/2) WILL be huge for them this season, Boozer has become elite big man, Okur is a fine shooting big man, they have Milsap, Giricek off the bench.

As you said mini-Spurs... but younger and more athletic, without the shot blocking big. But Kirilenko's defense is back to his best and watch him become a factor inside. Add in their coach... one of the greats.

And you have your West finalist.

Jazz vs Celtics... book it.

Again, Suns chances rely heavily on Amare playing like last year at least but with an improved defense, preventing offensive rebound is a defensive move.... yet to see it.

 

[mribnik]

Here's something that I don't understand.

Everybody always says that they aren't sure if the Suns style can work in the playoffs and they point to the playoff results. They also say that one of the keys to getting over the hump is having Amare improve his rebounding. However, they only look at his regular season rebounding. Amare has proven to be an excellent rebounder in the post-season, has he not? Isn't that where it counts?

I do believe he has improved defensively, but the fouls are a huge problem. 3 of his fouls last night were very iffy and he would not have gotten them if he had the respect from the officials that some other superstars have. That being said, while It's stupid that he has to do this, he needs to earn that respect from the officials and not complain as much. Also, the Suns should be constantly talking about how much he's improved his defense to try to help give him this reputation. The Mavs did this the other year. They constantly talked about how much they've worked on their defense and everyone bought into it.

 

[Lorenzo]

Here's something that I don't understand.

Everybody always says that they aren't sure if the Suns style can work in the playoffs and they point to the playoff results. They also say that one of the keys to getting over the hump is having Amare improve his rebounding. However, they only look at his regular season rebounding. Amare has proven to be an excellent rebounder in the post-season, has he not? Isn't that where it counts?

I do believe he has improved defensively, but the fouls are a huge problem. 3 of his fouls last night were very iffy and he would not have gotten them if he had the respect from the officials that some other superstars have. That being said, while It's stupid that he has to do this, he needs to earn that respect from the officials and not complain as much. Also, the Suns should be constantly talking about how much he's improved his defense to try to help give him this reputation. The Mavs did this the other year. They constantly talked about how much they've worked on their defense and everyone bought into it.

well the numbers kind of proved it. when nellie was the HC the mavs were annually one of the worst defensive and rebounding teams in the league. when johnson took over they changed their style and focused a lot more on defense and rebounding. it wasn't overnight though. look at GS now as well under nellie. they often score points at will it seems like. but they can't hold anyone under 110 points per game(this season). maybe that's why they can't win a game. the phoenix suns have some good defenders. amare can be better, but he is a force. marion is a good defender......so is bell. the suns are definitely a better defensive team than the mavs ever were when nash was in dallas.

 

[Lorenzo]

Denver is not a top 6 team in the west IMO. how can they be over the suns? that is crazy.

 

[Errntknght]

Does anyone have a link to this years Sagarin ratings - mine goes to the final rating for last year...

 

[FArting]

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/nba0708.htm?loc=interstitialskip

 

[mribnik]

well the numbers kind of proved it. when nellie was the HC the mavs were annually one of the worst defensive and rebounding teams in the league. when johnson took over they changed their style and focused a lot more on defense and rebounding. it wasn't overnight though. look at GS now as well under nellie. they often score points at will it seems like. but they can't hold anyone under 110 points per game(this season). maybe that's why they can't win a game. the phoenix suns have some good defenders. amare can be better, but he is a force. marion is a good defender......so is bell. the suns are definitely a better defensive team than the mavs ever were when nash was in dallas.

Right now the Suns points per shot against is better than the Spurs (yes i know, only 9 games). It has been consistently toward the top of the league the last few years but they are not known as a defensive team. Same with points per 100 possessions. All they have to do is repeatedly talk about it and they'll get some more play.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

The Jazz will come out of the west this year.

Deron has improved from last season, just his leadership.

Brewer is hugely improved, Kirilenko is back to his old self (9/7/7/3/2) WILL be huge for them this season, Boozer has become elite big man, Okur is a fine shooting big man, they have Milsap, Giricek off the bench.

As you said mini-Spurs... but younger and more athletic, without the shot blocking big. But Kirilenko's defense is back to his best and watch him become a factor inside. Add in their coach... one of the greats.

And you have your West finalist.

Jazz vs Celtics... book it.

Again, Suns chances rely heavily on Amare playing like last year at least but with an improved defense, preventing offensive rebound is a defensive move.... yet to see it.

yeah I'll take that bet - let me know the terms - your falling in love with a team without a go to guy.

like taking candy from a baby......

 

[Lorenzo]

Right now the Suns points per shot against is better than the Spurs (yes i know, only 9 games). It has been consistently toward the top of the league the last few years but they are not known as a defensive team. Same with points per 100 possessions. All they have to do is repeatedly talk about it and they'll get some more play.

I agree. the suns, like the mavs, will have to break through to get that credit from the media. beating the spurs that year was probably the biggest reason why people started noticing the mavs abilities to play at both ends. but the biggest aspect was how johnson came in and changed the attitude of the team. the suns aren't a bad defensive team. their offensive style gets all of the attention and people label them.

 

[oneofthesedays]

I think the Sun's best chance was last year. Losing KT was a huge mistake. You can't win an NBA championship without defense, period. And the Sun's record looks good right now because they've been playing utter garbage teams (Miami, Chicago, etc.).

 

[Cheesebeef]

I think the Sun's best chance was last year. Losing KT was a huge mistake. You can't win an NBA championship without defense, period. And the Sun's record looks good right now because they've been playing utter garbage teams (Miami, Chicago, etc.).

I'll take our situation over yours at this point.

 

[Lorenzo]

I'll take our situation over yours at this point.

what's oneofthesedays situation?

 

[carey]

what's oneofthesedays situation?

He's a Lakers fan.

 

[Bufalay]

He's a Lakers fan.

OOO that situation. Poor guy.

 

[oneofthesedays]

OOO that situation. Poor guy.

Haha, I know but our team is not expected to contend this year. We're playing pretty well considering who we have faced so far. And we blew you guys the hell out of the water for once.....

All I know is the WC is freaking stacked this year.

 

[Errntknght]

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/nba0708.htm?loc=interstitialskip

Thanks for the link!

 

[jandaman]

yeah I'll take that bet - let me know the terms - your falling in love with a team without a go to guy.

like taking candy from a baby......

No go to guy?


You talking about the Jazz?

Dude wake up and smell the coffee, Deron Williams, Carl Boozer are one of the best combos in the league.

I'm not falling in love with the Jazz, I'm concerned about them. Thats A HUGE difference.


And people pointing out that it was only last season that the Suns had a bad record against them.... dont count the games where Boozer didnt play. When Boozer plays, Jazz have a good record against the Suns.


The advantage of the SUns is to outmatch the team in every position, have a scorer at each position at all times also.

Nash
Bell
Hill
Marion
Stoudemire

Williams
Brewer
Kirilenko
Boozer
Okur


Thats 5 players who are physical and athletic enough to run. Has size and length. Has scoring big man inside and out. And a play maker who can take over.

 

[cly2tw]

Kirilenko for Marion would be good for us!

 

[TucsonDevil]

If you guys want to assign blame for our current roster make up look no further than the owner, who considers the bench wasted money.

Chris, how can you say this? Look at the contracts for Diaw, LB, and Banks. Clearly they were intended to be Bench players - but have rather large contracts.