Bulls @ Suns Game Thread 01-12-13

[JCSunsfan]

If there was ever an opportunity to teach Beasley a lesson about what will get him playing time without worrying about record, this is it.

I like that Wes Johnson got some burn. I don't care what he produces, I just want a chance to see what we have in him before he goes somewhere else. It looks like Gentry has been given instructions to give the youngsters minutes, it just happened to pay off in this game.

 

[Errntknght]

Gentry should have the Suns study this game tape, focusing on Noah rebounding. He fouls on every one where there's an opponent within reach and I don't think he was called for it once. They should study the timing, the amount of force he uses and the smoothness of his action - he's a master. (Close to Dennis Rodman, I'd say, though their styles are different - Dennis favored arm entanglement which he combined with flopping when he couldn't touch the ball.) Noah is in constant motion, too, which helps conceal his pushes.

I thought for a while that one of the refs must be channeling Violet Palmer - there was a fairly short stretch where they made three traveling calls, correctly.

I wonder if Beasley isn't coming around a bit - I saw him smiling two or three times and they weren't his typical smirks. We'll see...

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Were there quotes from anyone other than Gortat? I don't remember reading any.

Here is a Dragic quote after the loss to Boston:

"We got three guys battling on the floor, and the rest of the guys aren't on the same page," Dragic said. "It's tough. Right now, we're not together as a team."

http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2...uns-coming-apart-at-the-seams-postgame-quotes

 

[Phrazbit]

Here is a Dragic quote after the loss to Boston:

"We got three guys battling on the floor, and the rest of the guys aren't on the same page," Dragic said. "It's tough. Right now, we're not together as a team."

http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2...uns-coming-apart-at-the-seams-postgame-quotes

Exactly.

 

[elindholm]

Okay, I stand corrected.

I have a theory, by the way. Dragic, Gortat, and Scola all represent their national teams in European (and world) tournaments. (Okay, yes, Scola is South American. Work with me for a bit here.) Those are three of the Suns' current key players -- maybe even their top three players, one could argue. I've always wondered about the divided loyalty of Euros who play for an NBA team but also are passionate about representing their countries.

If the NBA team sucks, like the Suns currently do, one could hardly blame the Euros for considering their NBA gig to be their "day job," paying the bills until they can get to the more important international play. And if that happens, you'd expect team cohesion to break apart especially quickly. Dragic, Gortat, and Scola can communicate only in a second language, have virtually no connection to Phoenix, and have to have mixed feelings about spending so much time and energy on a futile team in a strange land. Heck, they aren't even particularly well paid by NBA standards. Seriously, if you were one of them, how excited would you be about the prospect of giving your all for the Phoenix, Arizona Suns?

 

[elindholm]

I don't recall the exact quote but O'Neal talked about how some players started playing for their next contract (or something like that) once the team had begun struggling.

Oh, right, I remember that one, but I immediately dismissed it as transparently self-serving on O'Neal's part. The guy's been paid $170 million on the basis of six good seasons, and he has the chutzpah to call his teammates out for thinking about money. Hilarious.

 

[Errntknght]

Okay, I stand corrected.

I have a theory, by the way. Dragic, Gortat, and Scola all represent their national teams in European (and world) tournaments. (Okay, yes, Scola is South American. Work with me for a bit here.) Those are three of the Suns' current key players -- maybe even their top three players, one could argue. I've always wondered about the divided loyalty of Euros who play for an NBA team but also are passionate about representing their countries.

If the NBA team sucks, like the Suns currently do, one could hardly blame the Euros for considering their NBA gig to be their "day job," paying the bills until they can get to the more important international play. And if that happens, you'd expect team cohesion to break apart especially quickly. Dragic, Gortat, and Scola can communicate only in a second language, have virtually no connection to Phoenix, and have to have mixed feelings about spending so much time and energy on a futile team in a strange land. Heck, they aren't even particularly well paid by NBA standards. Seriously, if you were one of them, how excited would you be about the prospect of giving your all for the Phoenix, Arizona Suns?

I would imagine for them Phoenix is just the name on their jerseys but I suspect that's true of most (North)Americans as well. Some teams with long winning traditions like Boston or Chicago probably play a bigger role in their players minds. Anyway, I think its more their teammates, some coaches and others in the organization and fans that they don't want to let down by playing poorly - and there is always their reputation in their profession to consider. Rather like the rest of us, in other words... how many of us give extra effort in our jobs because we want to burnish (in some mysterious way) the reputation of Phoenix?

 

[AzStevenCal]

Oh, right, I remember that one, but I immediately dismissed it as transparently self-serving on O'Neal's part. The guy's been paid $170 million on the basis of six good seasons, and he has the chutzpah to call his teammates out for thinking about money. Hilarious.

I remember thinking there was some truth to it when I heard it but it crossed my mind that he might have been unintentionally describing himself too. He played very well when he finally became available but he's been more of a detriment than anything else this past month or so. I'd love to see him step it up for a while so we can move him to a team that needs help down low for a playoff push. I'd much rather get a future pick for him than listen to him whine to the refs on every missed shot.

Steve

 

[Phrazbit]

Yes, when O'Neal was named as a "team captain" before the year I was alarmed. A real sign of the lack of leadership on the team as a whole that a player with a very dubious history within his own organizations would supposedly be our "leader". Apparently the Celtics' couldnt stand him last year, felt like he dogged it with injuries and was there just for a contract.

As for foreign players in particular not caring about a team... I dont really see it. Look at the Spurs, they've had a lot of foreigners there, they always play hard, same with Dallas, those Kings teams of 10 years ago had a lot of foreign guys in a podunk town but they played their butts off. IMO, leadership and winning have a lot to do with effort. Our team is terrible, we have no leaders, our attendance is waning and we still have 50 games to go and are only playing for lotto balls. Flag waiving American or *****-commie foreigner... our franchises current prospects certainly dont evoke a lot of pride or effort.

 

[BC867]

Seriously, if you were one of them, how excited would you be about the prospect of giving your all for the Phoenix, Arizona Suns?

Luckily they have pride in themselves, from which the team and the league benefit. Without getting too much into politics, it is just another example of how the U.S. is sinking to the level of 3rd world country, thanks to the infighting of politicians.

 

[elindholm]

As for foreign players in particular not caring about a team... I dont really see it. Look at the Spurs, they've had a lot of foreigners there, they always play hard, same with Dallas, those Kings teams of 10 years ago had a lot of foreign guys in a podunk town but they played their butts off.

Right, but those teams were all good. My speculation is that it's easier to band together for a good team than for a bad one, especially if you're half a world away from home and none of your teammates speak your language.

 

[hcsilla]

Right, but those teams were all good. My speculation is that it's easier to band together for a good team than for a bad one, especially if you're half a world away from home and none of your teammates speak your language.

I don't think that this is a significant issue anymore. A lot of european soccer and basketball teams (also low-level ones) have foreign players and they usually play hard if the coaching staff and managament are doing their jobs in the right way.

You get paid and you give on the court whatever you have. It's obviously tougher to build a good chemistry but this is part of the job nowadays.

 

[Phrazbit]

Right, but those teams were all good. My speculation is that it's easier to band together for a good team than for a bad one, especially if you're half a world away from home and none of your teammates speak your language.

I'd pin our chemistry issues more on our talent and individual personalities. I'm sure it would be easier on some of these guys of they had more countrymen on the team but I think in general if a guy has an out going personality they will do fine, and if their an introvert then they will struggle regardless of national origin. But no matter what type of international flavor you have, if your team lacks talent (which we certainly do) and you have a few bad apples on the roster (Beasley, Brown, O'Neal... possibly Gortat) then its a surefire recipe to have awful chemistry.

 

[BC867]

...and you have a few bad apples on the roster (Beasley, Brown, O'Neal... possibly Gortat) then its a surefire recipe to have awful chemistry.

Oooh, because Marcin Gortat is a perfectionist and discusses some of it when he sees some teammates not caring as much as he, he is a bad apple?

Yes, he has been playing softer than we would like. But a bad apple?

I wish more players who don't condone the deadwood on the team would speak up. Gortat doesn't deserve that! He is not the cause of the dysfunctional state of the Suns. $arver is. He is the bad apple.

 

[Phrazbit]

Oooh, because Marcin Gortat is a perfectionist and discusses some of it when he sees some teammates not caring as much as he, he is a bad apple?

Yes, he has been playing softer than we would like. But a bad apple?

I wish more players who don't condone the deadwood on the team would speak up. Gortat doesn't deserve that! He is not the cause of the dysfunctional state of the Suns. $arver is. He is the bad apple.

I said "possibly", I am not sold on Gortat's apple being bad, but I wouldnt claim he is a good one. When players say one thing in the media and then do the contrary on the court then I have to question how that stuff effects the locker-room. Yeah, the Suns have a lot of guys who deserve to be called out for their poor play, but the person who holds them accountable should hold themselves accountable too... and I have not seen that from Marcin.